Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

[Nordvest]

I would too before we changed speakers and (power) amp. The new ones are much better in every way except this gain mismatch or whatever it is

 

[PENG]

Found a cable and tested with our Squeezebox (which has an output voltage of 1,8v) and got more or less the same results there too. Unsure what that means because I'm unsure if the X3300 digitizes the analog inputs to apply room correction and so on.

Anyway, looks like this is just the way it is with this combination of amps and that if I want to get it to play louder I'll have to try to run it over 0db master volume. I might try gently raising the volume over a number of days to see if that works and back straight down if I hear any signs of strain or distortion.

I thought you were going to increase the input level for the Apple TV by 6 dB. That's what that feature is there for.

Your issue is not due to a "mismatch" it is a common issue we all face that if we have multiple sources hook up to our AVP or AVR.

Just use the input level adjustment feature and enjoy your different sources.

 

[Nordvest]

Yes, the plan is to start at +3db and gradually increase it to about +6db unless I hear something "wrong" along the way. And everything over 0db is just needed for the "quieter" songs anyway so hopefully it'll work.

Yeah, mismatch was probably the wrong word, should have gone with something like differences

Thank you so much for all the help again!

 

[PENG]

Yes, the plan is to start at +3db and gradually increase it to about +6db unless I hear something "wrong" along the way. And everything over 0db is just needed for the "quieter" songs anyway so hopefully it'll work.

Yeah, mismatch was probably the wrong word, should have gone with something like differences

Thank you so much for all the help again!

You are welcome! I am glad it works out, finally.
The PM11S3 is a very nice amp, looks beautiful!

 

[Nordvest]

Thanks!
Yes, it's great, we're very happy with it. Powerful, beautiful sounding, looks nice and has a very good phono stage

 

[bradymartin]

I received a gift, a turntable. it requires the red and white connections. i believe its called composite?
anyhow supposedly per specs my x3300 has those connections in the front, but i dont see them?
also in the back, i see them but theyre video only?

also, any recommended inexpensive fans? with this heatwave in los angeles watching a movie today the receiver was HOT

 

[Nordvest]

The turntable input would have been called Phono, not composite, and unfortunately the x3300 doesn't have them.

To connect a turntable to the x3300 you would need to buy an external RIAA-stage. I'm live in another country so I don't exactly know what's available of those in the US, but I imagine you could find an inexpensive one at Amazon or similar shops.

Or: if your turntable has an inbuilt RIAA-stage you could turn that on and plug it directly into one of the analog sound inputs on the back of the x3300.
What model turntable is it?

 

[PENG]

I received a gift, a turntable. it requires the red and white connections. i believe its called composite?
anyhow supposedly per specs my x3300 has those connections in the front, but i dont see them?
also in the back, i see them but theyre video only?

also, any recommended inexpensive fans? with this heatwave in los angeles watching a movie today the receiver was HOT

Here is a $60 phono box for MM cartridges.

http://www.project-audio.com/inhalt/en/pdf/phonoboxe.pdf
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CZW87HS?ref=emc_b_5_t

For fans, there are many choices, but I think @Pogre knows a real good one.

 

[PENG]

Hello Nordvest, I couldn't find time to do it until this afternoon. Below the the results:

*Please note that the measurements I took would normally mean almost nothing because I only measured voltages, with no reference to distortions, frequency response, SNR etc etc. I did it only because Nordvest wants to know the maximum volume position he can use and still expect the preout voltage to be <= 2V rms. He wants to keep the preout below 2V because in Gene's review, he noted that at 2Vrms, "things got a little grainer".

The measurements are not going to be very accurate as I relied on a true rms Flke multimeter, a MP3 1kHz sine wave downloaded from the internet, nothing like Gene's AP. IMO the numbers do allow me to take a reasonable projection for Nordvest under certain assumptions, one being that the gain of my AVR-3805 is similar to that of the AVR-X3300W.

DUT - Denon AVR-3805, no time to measure the AV8801 yet.
Multimeter used - Fluke 87V true rms multimeter
Source signal - REW generator, 1 kHz sine wave, 16 bit 44.1 kHz
SPL meter - Radio Shack Cat.# 33-2055

Master vol----Preout Volt (V)-----SPL (dB) @ 1meter (C weighted fast)

-32--------------0.0071------------
-26--------------0.01425-----------
-20--------------0.02845-----------
-10--------------0.089--------------
-4.5-------------0.1733----------------85
0----------------0.28-------------------90
6----------------0.56035---------------
9----------------0.783------------------
12---------------1.094------------------
18--------------2.015V---------------

In order to get higher voltages, I then used an external DAC (rated output: 2V) to play a 60 second long sine wave and results are as follow.

-15---------------0.1589---------------85
-10---------------0.2813---------------
-6----------------0.4359----------------
0-----------------0.886-----------------
6-----------------1.77------------------
7.5-------------2.072V---------------

The actual measured output voltage from the DAC was 1.166V

With master volume at "0", the speaker output voltage was approx. 21.92V, so the calculated gain would be approx 28 dB.

Assuming the the AVR-3805 and X3300W have similar gains, the preout should not come close to 2V until the master volume is well above 0. At or below "0", you should be fine, just be careful if and when you play program material that were recorded at very high level.

I have now measured the AV8801's preout voltages vs master volume. The results are very similar to those measured on the AVR-3805.

 

[Pogre]

Here is a $60 phono box for MM cartridges.

http://www.project-audio.com/inhalt/en/pdf/phonoboxe.pdf
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CZW87HS?ref=emc_b_5_t

For fans, there are many choices, but I think @Pogre knows a real good one.

I do, but it's not quite inexpensive though it won't break the bank either. It looks nice, it's quiet, works very well and blends right in with the rest of my equipment.

Clicky

 

[Nordvest]

I have now measured the AV8801's preout voltages vs master volume. The results are very similar to those measured on the AVR-3805.

That's great, thank you very much!

That seems to indicate that the voltages can be rather consistent for Denon and Marantz products and increases the likelihood that they're similar on ours too.

I have bumped the source level up 3db on the Bluesound and Apple TV now and it looks like that might be enough.
Interestingly, given that the input sensitivity on the PM11S3 is 1,7V, that fits very well with your last measurement where 0db master volume is 0,89V and 6 is 1,77V

Thanks again for all your help and measurements!

 

[PENG]

That's great, thank you very much!

That seems to indicate that the voltages can be rather consistent for Denon and Marantz products and increases the likelihood that they're similar on ours too.

I have bumped the source level up 3db on the Bluesound and Apple TV now and it looks like that might be enough.
Interestingly, given that the input sensitivity on the PM11S3 is 1,7V, that fits very well with your last measurement where 0db master volume is 0,89V and 6 is 1,77V

Thanks again for all your help and measurements!

If you are interested I can post the Marantz readings too, but will be later.

 

[Nordvest]

That would be very interesting, but you have helped me so much already so you must not feel like you have to in any way!

 

[PENG]

That would be very interesting, but you have helped me so much already so you must not feel like you have to in any way!

Will do when I get home.

 

[Nordvest]

Excellent!

 

[PENG]

Input signal voltage from DAC: 1.166V

MV-----------Denon AVR3805 pre-out V----------------Marantz AV8801 pre-out V

-15-----------0.1589--------------------------------------0.1488
-10-----------0.2825--------------------------------------0.2632
-6------------0.4359--------------------------------------0.4165
-3------------0.6170--------------------------------------0.5898
0-------------0.8660--------------------------------------0.8320
3-------------1.2635--------------------------------------1.175
6-------------1.77-----------------------------------------1.658
8-------------2.2105--------------------------------------2.081

 

[Nordvest]

That was very similar indeed!

Thank you very much, that's reassuring!

 

[PENG]

That was very similar indeed!

Thank you very much, that's reassuring!

And again, the numbers are predictable because it very closely approximate my spreadsheet's calculated value. Any discrepancies in the second or third decimal place are understandable as the measurements were not taken in a lab environment using highly precise instrument.

 

[Nordvest]

Yes, I would think that could explain the minor differences in values.

Thank you so much again, this has been very helpful and I feel like I have learnt a lot

 

[PENG]

Yes, I would think that could explain the minor differences in values.

Thank you so much again, this has been very helpful and I feel like I have learnt a lot

Again, you are very welcome. I learnt something too. Thanks to you too, now I have an idea about what my preout voltage would be as related to my mv setting for my sources, even though I know my preamp/amps would never get close to their clipping point for my needs.

As I mentioned multiple times, your sources will have different output levels than mine, and you already know some of them sounds as much as 6 dB higher, resulting in higher preout voltage at the same MV than your weaker sources, such as the Apple TV. So don't be listening to >100 dB average (peaks fine) and risk audible distortions in your amps, speakers and your precious hearing.