ozmedia

ozmedia

Audioholic
I have been finding that fewer and fewer manufacturer's actually list the crossover slope of their products these days, why? It seems people are focused on sensitivity, which only goes so far and paints half a picture but doesn't reveal the audible separation and detail potential of the speakers crossover design. Generally first order cross overs are 6dB second order 12dB etc. However when a manufacturer lists nothing, are we to assume that they are all the common 2nd order LR crossovers because others are?


In closing, here's a giggle: There is a speaker manufacturer that lists their Frequency Response using a -6dB spec and thus the low end results in an amazing spec. They explain the a reason is because a speaker that is in a normal room will often bass load depending on positioning so the bottom end is generally lower than accurate measurement would provide. In order to provide accurate FR below 180Hz, you need a room that is at least 120' square (a gym with a sky high ceiling perhaps?). So instead of posting an accurate measurement, and quickly dismissing all other measurements as inaccurate, they offer a GUESS as to what the actual room frequency response will be by offering a -6dB spec as their low end frequency.

Of course that is not printed on material in any relevant way except to suggest a 5.25" speaker delivers a 31Hz response -6dB/+ or -3dB.

Yeah that'll confuse the customer and make them just consider comparing numbers. ! :D

So from now on, when looking at frequency responses and comparing graphs, don't forget to remove another 8 dB or so from the low end to get a more accurate idea of how they will sound in an untreated room when corner loaded. ;)
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I have been finding that fewer and fewer manufacturer's actually list the crossover slope of their products these days, why? It seems people are focused on sensitivity, which only goes so far and paints half a picture but doesn't reveal the audible separation and detail potential of the speakers crossover design. Generally first order cross overs are 6dB second order 12dB etc. However when a manufacturer lists nothing, are we to assume that they are all the common 2nd order LR crossovers because others are?


In closing, here's a giggle: There is a speaker manufacturer that lists their Frequency Response using a -6dB spec and thus the low end results in an amazing spec. They explain the a reason is because a speaker that is in a normal room will often bass load depending on positioning so the bottom end is generally lower than accurate measurement would provide. In order to provide accurate FR below 180Hz, you need a room that is at least 120' square (a gym with a sky high ceiling perhaps?). So instead of posting an accurate measurement, and quickly dismissing all other measurements as inaccurate, they offer a GUESS as to what the actual room frequency response will be by offering a -6dB spec as their low end frequency.

Of course that is not printed on material in any relevant way except to suggest a 5.25" speaker delivers a 31Hz response -6dB/+ or -3dB.

Yeah that'll confuse the customer and make them just consider comparing numbers. ! :D

So from now on, when looking at frequency responses and comparing graphs, don't forget to remove another 8 dB or so from the low end to get a more accurate idea of how they will sound in an untreated room when corner loaded. ;)
Most customers don't care. Also, a real anechoic chamber is extremely expensive and below a certain point, the listening room's problems will render the test results useless, in a way.

If you want to find the slope, call the company and ask. If you already have the speakers, look at the crossovers and trace the circuit.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
To add to that, most customers don't know what a crossover is and certainly aren't going to know what a x-over slope is.

High end speakers are less likely in my experience to tell you about the x-over beyond the point, as that would give away info about the network's design. Others are happy to tell you the type/slope/point, etc...
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I have been finding that fewer and fewer manufacturer's actually list the crossover slope of their products these days, why? It seems people are focused on sensitivity, which only goes so far and paints half a picture but doesn't reveal the audible separation and detail potential of the speakers crossover design. Generally first order cross overs are 6dB second order 12dB etc. However when a manufacturer lists nothing, are we to assume that they are all the common 2nd order LR crossovers because others are?


In closing, here's a giggle: There is a speaker manufacturer that lists their Frequency Response using a -6dB spec and thus the low end results in an amazing spec. They explain the a reason is because a speaker that is in a normal room will often bass load depending on positioning so the bottom end is generally lower than accurate measurement would provide. In order to provide accurate FR below 180Hz, you need a room that is at least 120' square (a gym with a sky high ceiling perhaps?). So instead of posting an accurate measurement, and quickly dismissing all other measurements as inaccurate, they offer a GUESS as to what the actual room frequency response will be by offering a -6dB spec as their low end frequency.

Of course that is not printed on material in any relevant way except to suggest a 5.25" speaker delivers a 31Hz response -6dB/+ or -3dB.

Yeah that'll confuse the customer and make them just consider comparing numbers. ! :D

So from now on, when looking at frequency responses and comparing graphs, don't forget to remove another 8 dB or so from the low end to get a more accurate idea of how they will sound in an untreated room when corner loaded. ;)
You can not assume the order of the crossover. The order may also change with frequency. My crossover designs frequently do that.

Speaker manufacturers are renowned for poor and misleading specs. That -6 db spec. you are talking about is an official German DIN spec!
 
ozmedia

ozmedia

Audioholic
If you want to find the slope, call the company and ask. If you already have the speakers, look at the crossovers and trace the circuit.
That's what made me post. I was talking to the head designer for a major speaker manufacturer in the home theatre/music distribution industry, he couldn't tell me, but he sent me some really funny looking FR response graphs.
 
ozmedia

ozmedia

Audioholic
Speaker manufacturers are renowned for poor and misleading specs. That -6 db spec. you are talking about is an official German DIN spec!
Misleading specs is what I am on about for sure. As for the German DIN spec #45500. From what I understood it was -3dB at the two lowest points.

That's a problem when there are no North American standards used, it happens in engine ratings too.
 

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