Cross over Centre channel at 80 Hz? Looking at Emotiva XRC 6.2

A

anthonywoy

Enthusiast
Does anyone have any experience with the Emotiva XRC 6.2 as a center channel? They are on sale for $249 right now, and look like a steal to me.

Also, do you crossover the center channel at 80 Hz like the rest of the system, or does it vary? This speaker is rated down to 45 Hz, but its little brother is rated to about 74 Hz, so if you cross at 80, what is the point of big center channel with lower extension? My speakers are rated to about 40 Hz, so do I lower the crossover to about 60? 80 seems to be the magic number, even though you can do whatever you want.

I have a Yamaha A800 receiver, my other speakers are 8 ohm, but the Emotiva is rated a 4 ohm. Would I run into problems running this center channel from this receiver?
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
In order to know what the optimal crossover point should be you have to look at a frequency response graph and that will give you a range to test out once it is in your system. Based on the sound and vision review of the the XRC a crossover between 80-100Hz would probably work fine. The XRC doesn't look like it met the stated operating frequency range so if it were me I'd probably start at 60Hz and work my way up to 100 to see what sounded best. You won't know what the optimal crossover point for you, in your room, with your system is until you're sitting there with it and testing different ones out.

Lower extension usually means a cleaner fuller midrange. It also signifies a speaker's ability to reproduce music without the need for a sub, depending on how far they go. You can't just look at what the manufacturer states the operating range is. You have to look at what the +- is and, even better, find a review that measured the frequency response. You want to crossover right around where the rolloff point is (where the graph starts to go from flatish to a downward slope). Where it starts to rolloff IN YOUR OWN ROOM may be different than what the manufacturer states the operating range to be and from what the reviewer measured, but it gives you a range and a starting point to try out.

The A800 should be fine. Based on the impedance graph in sound and vision, it doesn't look like a super difficult load, so you should be OK
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Also, do you crossover the center channel at 80 Hz like the rest of the system, or does it vary?
It can vary according to how it responds in room, but I wouldn't cross it much under 80Hz. Personally I have to cross my center (rated into the 60s) at 100Hz due to in room response. Audyssey wanted to cross my old center at 150Hz :eek:


This speaker is rated down to 45 Hz, but its little brother is rated to about 74 Hz, so if you cross at 80, what is the point of big center channel with lower extension?
Greater output capability and lower distortion.

80 seems to be the magic number, even though you can do whatever you want.
If you've got a half decent subwoofer, I'm of the mind that you should let it do its job, and cross everything at 80Hz or higher.

I've got hefty floorstanding speakers as mains with dual 8" drivers; my receiver reckons their bass response is strong enough to qualify as full range. I still cross at 80Hz. Why? Primarily because there is not a shred of doubt in my mind that my subwoofer can do a better job in the range that it is dedicated to than my main speakers. There are of course other advantages as well (bass sounds more consistent, except for XT32, Audyssey will apply greater resolution filters to the sub, etc).
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Does anyone have any experience with the Emotiva XRC 6.2 as a center channel? They are on sale for $249 right now, and look like a steal to me.

Also, do you crossover the center channel at 80 Hz like the rest of the system, or does it vary? This speaker is rated down to 45 Hz, but its little brother is rated to about 74 Hz, so if you cross at 80, what is the point of big center channel with lower extension? My speakers are rated to about 40 Hz, so do I lower the crossover to about 60? 80 seems to be the magic number, even though you can do whatever you want.

I have a Yamaha A800 receiver, my other speakers are 8 ohm, but the Emotiva is rated a 4 ohm. Would I run into problems running this center channel from this receiver?
A crossover is not a brick wall. The level of the sound lowers as you move further from the crossover point. There will be some sound all the way down to 40Hz with an 80Hz crossover, though by 40Hz, it will likely be very low.

So a speaker that goes to 74Hz is actually not playing the lower frequencies before the crossover likely rolls them off because the natural roll off of the speaker combines with the crossover, potentially creating a gap or a dip in the sound when crossed to a sub. In a case like that, it might be better to cross it higher, though in some cases, the sub may make up for it well enough that it may not matter too much. On the other hand, a speaker with 40Hz extension should essentially have no gap with an 80Hz crossover, allowing it to more easily blend with the sub.

Does that mean you need a 40Hz capable speaker? Not always. My speakers are -3dB at 55Hz and they work very well with an 80Hz crossover.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
So a speaker that goes to 74Hz is actually not playing the lower frequencies before the crossover likely rolls them off because the natural roll off of the speaker combines with the crossover, potentially creating a gap or a dip in the sound when crossed to a sub.
FWIW:

Feature Article

The THX crossover consists of an 80 Hz, 4th order Linkwitz/Riley filter alignment, and it was not chosen lightly or without serious consideration. As the crossover frequency increases, it becomes harder to blend the subwoofer with a satellite, and the subwoofer becomes more difficult to audibly "hide". At the same time, as the crossover frequency increases, distortion from the satellite decreases, the total dynamic range increases, and loading the room for the flattest response becomes much easier. The logic of the 80 Hz crossover point is that it's high enough to ease demands on the speakers and amplifier, but low enough to make the whole setup work without a tremendous headache. The 4th order (24dB/octave roll-off, 6dB/octave/pole) Linkwitz/Riley alignment not only offers a steep slope, but one that immediately transitions to that slope, maximizing the benefits of that slope near the crossover point. The high-pass side minimizes excursion and power requirements, while the low-pass minimizes more localizable content at higher frequencies.

To correctly achieve this, THX satellite speakers are sealed systems with an 80 Hz -3 dB low frequency cutoff (preferably with a Qtc of 0.71). The electronic high-pass filter applied to them is an 80 Hz, 2nd order (12dB/octave) Butterworth alignment. The speaker and the filter sum to a 4th order Linkwitz/Riley roll-off which matches the electronic filter applied to the subwoofer, and an excellent crossover is achieved.
 
R

ridikas

Banned
The center channel should be crossed over at 80Hz, as per the THX standard. It's not a home theater unless it's THX, at least the AV receiver so you can hear the proper algorithms. Here are the one's I recommend:

Infinity Primus PC351 $200 (no anechoic data available)

Jamo D 500 LCR $350 (THX Select 2 certified, no anechoic data needed)

Paradigm Center 1 $380 (no anechoic data available)

Revel C12 $500 (fantastic) http://www.hometheater.com/content/r...m-measurements

Jamo D 600 LCR $600 (THX Select 2 certified, no anechoic data needed)

Energy RCLCR $300 http://www.hometheater.com/content/e...m-measurements

MK Sound S-150THX $750 (THX Select 2 certified, no anechoic data needed)

Polk Audio LSiM704c $680 (no anechoic data available)

Paradigm Studio CC-490 $850 (no anechoic data vailable)
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Not to mention, an 80Hz x-over is low enough below the point at which bass becomes easier to localize at around 120Hz. Most AVRs do not use the THX algorithms, but I would imagine pretty much all of them use a similar strategy in terms of a steep slope on the low pass and a slightly less aggressive one on the high pass.

I have a Yamaha A800 receiver, my other speakers are 8 ohm, but the Emotiva is rated a 4 ohm. Would I run into problems running this center channel from this receiver?
Your front three speakers should be from the same manufacturer / family of speaker, aka proper timbre matching, to get the best results. I wouldn't mix mains and center from different companies unless you've heard all of them together.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Buy the speakers, they sound really good for that price... and I croos my front 3 at 80hz it sounds great...
 
A

anthonywoy

Enthusiast
Thanks for all the great feedback! You guys are awesome.
I have some fairly budget speakers at the moment, but I am not happy with the clarity of the center channel I have. I was looking at the Emotiva as a stop gate until I can manage to get some better speakers down the road. I know they are not timbre matched j_garcia, but I thought the upgrade would be better than not having it. I would love an Aperion or Songtower level of speaker, but I doubt if I could afford it in the next couple off years. I figure I could get $100 for what I have, so it would only cost me $150 in the end. Would not timbre matching be a bad idea?
 
croseiv

croseiv

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks for all the great feedback! You guys are awesome.
I have some fairly budget speakers at the moment, but I am not happy with the clarity of the center channel I have. I was looking at the Emotiva as a stop gate until I can manage to get some better speakers down the road. I know they are not timbre matched j_garcia, but I thought the upgrade would be better than not having it. I would love an Aperion or Songtower level of speaker, but I doubt if I could afford it in the next couple off years. I figure I could get $100 for what I have, so it would only cost me $150 in the end. Would not timbre matching be a bad idea?
Crossing over at 80 hz is good for this speaker although you maybe get away with 60 hz. I have one and am using it as a center channel. It's a great performer. I also reviewed this speaker a few years back if you are interested. Just search the reviews section for ERM 6.2.


Here's a link to my review:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/write-your-own-review/55541-emotiva-erm-6-2-a.html
 
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J

Jmoi3

Enthusiast
I have a BOSE-VCS 10 @ 110hz, With BOSE 161 @ 60hz as my FNT L/R, With BOSE Acoustimass 3 Series IV as SL/SR @ 50hz, and BOSE Acoustimass 5 Series III as SBL/SBR @ 50hz. And my Yamaha YSW 150 Subwoofer with my Sony DN1010 with a crossover setting at 120hz. And I think it sounds great....!!!! But I would like some feedback, ?
 
T

twoeyedbob

Audioholic
At a quick glance i'd say your sub would be the best/easiest thing to upgrade.....but..you ain't gonna get many favourable words about bose on here...master's of style over substance...some would say...
What is the sony...receiver ?

Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2
 
T

twoeyedbob

Audioholic
If everything's great...why are you on here ?



Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2
 
J

Jmoi3

Enthusiast
I'm trying to see if anyone had a idea on what the frequency range of any of the BOSE speakers were that was stated in my first statement, or if anyone had a better idea on what my setting should be.
 
T

twoeyedbob

Audioholic
Well in an ideal world ,80 hz is the standard crossover setting,
Because ,above that sub bass starts becoming directional.
However ,(my sub's crossover only goes up to 99 hz)
regardless of the stats on your equipment your bose stuff is
Gonna struggle to meet 80hz and the sub aint gonna produce
Much under 60hz

Basically the nearer 80hz the better ,but your severely limited by your equipment...


Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2
 
J

Jmoi3

Enthusiast
Let me know what you think, this is just a theory of mine. So, if you have a sub that has a response rate of 20hz-160hz, why not push our speakers to the lowest freq. and have the center at the highest to pick up the highs. That way maybe you would be able to get more bass using both the speakers and the sub.
 
T

twoeyedbob

Audioholic
All this stuff has been covered in detail in plenty other posts
By people with way more knowledge than me or you....
Have a look about....
As I said ..get a new sub if you fancy an upgrade...that yam is'nt the best
Especially as your bose stuff ain't producing much down low

Regardless of the claimed figures


Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2
 
J

Jmoi3

Enthusiast
I set up the crossover @ 80 for all my speakers, made my adjustments using a spl meter, and set everything at 75db. Thanks for all your input, but I'm sticking to my old settings. I think it had more life with everything set to the lower frequencies.

Thanks Again for the input.
 
J

Jmoi3

Enthusiast
So I sold all my bose, and the sub for so cheap. There re-sale value on everything I had sucked. All I got out of it was a pair of energy rc 10s, and maybe a energy CC5 if I'm lucky.. What do you think of my new set up ?
 
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