Crash course in what to look for in power conditioner?

[FuzzyReets]

Hi guys. not sure if I'm in the right place but couldn't really find a section dedicated to power that I saw so here I am. I'm looking to replace my old UPS that i've been using in my theater to something more oriented to conditioning and making sure everything is getting clean power as I'm reading more about how that can effect PQ/AQ but I'm not too versed in what to look for when I'm purchasing these units.


I was looking at that Panamax MR4000 as I read good things about it but I don't totally understand what I'm reading so I'm just guessing it's a good unit. My budget is about $200 or less. My concern about that unit is how close together the outlets are considering some of my devices have bricks at the receptacle.


Current setup: I have 2 outlets near the back of my theater where everything connects. I’m not sure if there is a better way to split these up, totally remove certain things from the power my home theater gets, or something else. They are split up as follows:


Belkin UPS:

1. TV: Panasonic PN58C550 Plasma

2. PC Computer with 500w power supply

3. Xbox One

4. HDMI Splitter

5. Logitech Harmony Hub

6. IOGEAR Wireless HD 3D Digital Kit

7. Denon 2310ci Receiver driving 7 speakers / 1 15” SVS Sub


Monster Flat screen HTS 400 Power Center:

1. Cable modem

2. Cable Box

3. Sony Blu Ray Player BDP-S6500

4. Slingbox 350


A couple specific questions:


1. Should all my devices be on the same type of high quality power conditioner like the MR4000 or can I split things off into a cheaper surge protector for things like DVD player, xbox, etc. Does that effect PQ/AQ?


2. Should my 15" sub be on my UPS? Seems like a bad idea now that I'm thinking about it.


Any help or information would be greatly appreciated as this is an area I haven't really gotten into before but would like to make sure my devices are getting clean power and making sure it’s not interfering with PQ/AQ as much as possible. Thanks.

 

[lovinthehd]

Personally I think its a bunch of nonsense for most in the US. Never used one in 40 years myself. Is your power a problem now? I can maybe see using a UPS if I had something like a projector, or perhaps a computer that has issues shutting down with a lack of power (thought they were better designed these days myself but I'm a laptop guy). I'd do more research on any testing that has indicated there's some sort of AQ/PQ difference (the AQ I don't believe whatsoever, not much of a video guy)....the whole thing reminds me of silly audiophile cables. IMHO.

 

[highfigh]

Audioholics has several "crash courses in power conditioning" threads, which may also be helpful- I also replied to your other questions.

What you need depends on where you are, how reliable the electric service is, the equipment and its sensitivity. Computers and processor-based equipment hate surges and spikes, amplifiers and other small electronics are more or less tolerant, depending on their design.

If you have a lot of wall warts, you can put them on a non-protected power strip, plugged into one outlet on the main protector. I have a MR4000 and it has shut off the power, as I posted in the other thread. I installed a Furman PF15i in a customer's house with a fairly extensive AND expensive system in 2007- I was in the room when lightning struck outside of the house and as soon as I saw the flash, I heard a loud snapping sound, which was a discharge. None of the equipment has had a problem and if it had, I would know about it- I monitor the security cameras regularly and if the DVR had a problem, I wouldn't be able to. The UPS in their office saved an important document the husband was creating when a storm cut the power and he turned to his wife, saying "Well, that just paid for itself". I had insisted and they asked if it was really necessary.

The problem with surges and spikes is that the damage can be cumulative and won't necessarily be apparent until enough time has elapsed that nobody will connect the event with the problem. I'm not saying that anyone needs to buy a Richard Gray Power Station, but electronics like stability. If it's designed to handle a wide range of voltage, great, but if not, it's a good idea to keep it within spec.

As far as AQ/SQ, I tend to not agree that most of these will help, but with older houses and questionable wiring, they can help. My house was built in 1946 and I doubt anyone looked at it with any thoughts about whether it would work for long- each floor only had two circuits, total. I connected one of the Furman boxes that's made to be placed behind a TV and to my surprise, the picture was a bit better.

 

[cvcgolf]

I have 2 of these Power Pack II.. Great product which I believe is near your price range..

http://www.audiopower.com/newsite/pp2.html

 

[Andrew08]

let my experience tell you about aq, i have this generator that is running square wave, all my lamps do not like it, they are not humming but the brightness jitter, but my denon avp and poa sounds fine, i can't detect the different, i didn't check power usage but a simple TrueRTA frequency response, 1khz clipping and my ear can't tell the difference.

 

[j_garcia]

Here's my crash course: they offer zero benefits. With the Panamax I DID see a small bit of noise reduction in video because I ran the cable through it. Once I had the cable properly grounded, that was moot. Audio = no difference in any of my systems.

 

[highfigh]

Here's my crash course: they offer zero benefits. With the Panamax I DID see a small bit of noise reduction in video because I ran the cable through it. Once I had the cable properly grounded, that was moot. Audio = no difference in any of my systems.

They're not made to remove audio/video noise, they're POWER surge protectors.

 

[lovinthehd]

They're not made to remove audio/video noise, they're POWER surge protectors.

So a power conditioner's primary purpose is as a glorified surge protector?

 

[highfigh]

So a power conditioner's primary purpose is as a glorified surge protector?

They're often sold as "This will make you a whole person, no longer a poor excuse for a human being", but a device is designed to operate under certain conditions and if it can't work with the power grid as it is, the thing shouldn't go to market. It should perform to a set of specs, with a specific range of voltage and frequency and if it has been designed well, noise on the AC supply won't cause problems.

The power supply only does a couple of things- takes alternating current from the outlet and raises/lowers/leaves it unchanged before it goes to the rectifier and filtering, to make clean Direct Current. The circuits inside don't usually operate on Alternating Current and the inductance of the Power Transformer often removes the high frequency noise by itself.

As far as 'glorified', that depends on the design. There's so much confusion and BS flying around about what these do and what's actually happening that I think the marketing departments need to be slapped, really hard. A surge protector is one thing- it dampens the voltage swing, often using parts that are inexpensive, but almost ubiquitous. A power filter is for places where the AC is extremely dirty and a regulator does what the name implies- it maintains a range of voltage at the output, even if the input falls outside of the normal range.

They don't perform miracles, regardless of what some people say but they do protect equipment to some degree, depending on their design. Mine limits the voltage sent to the equipment to a range of 90VAC-140VAC and if the incoming voltage is outside of that range, it shuts off. Some of these don't do anything until the voltage drops to 80VAC or jumps to 300VAC- if something is made for 120VAC, 300V isn't going to make it happy.

 

[j_garcia]

The panamax actually claimed it would improve audio and video quality by cleaning up the line noise, IIRC. My current APC seems to do a better job of monitoring voltage and shutting off in a low voltage condition; never had a high voltage condition and it cost a lot less (bought both very cheap, APC used even )

 

[highfigh]

The panamax actually claimed it would improve audio and video quality by cleaning up the line noise, IIRC. My current APC seems to do a better job of monitoring voltage and shutting off in a low voltage condition; never had a high voltage condition and it cost a lot less (bought both very cheap, APC used even )

If it'a bad enough, I guess I could see how the sound quality could improve, but I bet that more noise enters from nearby RF and EMI sources. I have posted in more than one thread similar to this about using the Munster Cable Dr Noise thing to hear what was on my power line and I could hear a baseball game broadcast but nothing like it when I had the system on. I used the $20 Munster Cable power strip and it eliminated most of the sound, which wasn't particularly impressive but when I connected the $7 strip from Office Depot, it was dead silent. Again, the strip I was using was for surges, not a filter for noise on the power- I wouldn't have expected that for $7.

Which Panamax model? Mine is the 4500, or something like that. My system isn't noisy in the audio or video, which is amazing- the house's wiring is crap aluminum and each floor originally had only two circuits. When I replaced some of the outlets, the wires broke off and one when the neutral wire broke off at a light fixture in the 2nd Floor hallway, half of that floor lost power. Also, I live about 1/2 mile from the park with an antenna farm and 3 miles from the other antenna farm- these two places broadcast ALL of the radio and TV for Milwaukee and I hear nothing in the AV system and almost nothing in my guitar rigs unless I have a bad cord, dirty controls or some other problem with the equipment. Too many pedals is another good way to cause noise.

 

[j_garcia]

Mine is an older Panamax 5100 that I bought new on sale.

 

[highfigh]

Mine is an older Panamax 5100 that I bought new on sale.

Mine has shut off a couple of times, once during a thunder storm and another was because some nimrod drove into a pole with power cables on it. The lights went out and came back three or four times, but the system turned off on the first event. Never had to replace anything because of power issues. I have used Furman, too- at one house, I was in the equipment room when lighting struck outside and as soon as I saw the flash, I heard a loud snapping sound in that room. The system never missed a beat and it happened about three years ago- I installed the system starting in early 2007 (changed and/or added something every year, along the way). The UPS in the office saved a lengthy document that was being typed during another thunder storm and when the lights went out, the computer stayed on- he looked at his wife and said "Well, that just more than paid for itself".