Considering Move to BDP-103 from BDP-83 (non-SE)

[audiofox]

I currently have two of the BDP-83 units and have been very happy with the audio and video performance of the players. I tried to do some searching but didn't have much luck, so I'm looking for some feedback on the relative merits of such a change (ie, BDP-83 to BDP-103). I use HDMI for audio as well as video (through a Yamaha RXA3000 and a Denon 3808ci in my media and living rooms, respectively), so my speculation is that I would not hear much, if any, change in the audio performance (the rest of the media room system includes Dynaudio Audience speakers and Rotel class A/B amps all around, with the Yamaha Rx functioning as a pre/pro). My media room projector is the JVC HD250 and is 2D only, so I don't need the 3D capabilities of the newer models (and probably will not for the foreseeable future. However, my living room HDTV does have 3D capability (the Panasonic 60" ST30 from last year) and so would benefit from this capability (as soon as I bought some 3D Blurays and 3D glasses, that is). Anyway, I thought I would get some feedback on this question before I made a decision to make a change. Again, I attempted to do a search within this subforum but could not get any results (I can't seem to get the forum search function to produce a single result), although I suspect that this question has been asked (and answered) at least once already. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or comments (or links to older threads!), especially with regard to any first hand experience with these two players in comparison.

 

[PENG]

The 103 is 2 generations newer. Assuming you can get around $250 for your 83, I think it is worth trading in one of your two to a 103. I am not sure you can hear better sound quality and I cannot say I hear that from my 105 (from 95), but the additional features, more responsive remote, network capability and of course a new warranty, etc., should be worth the extra $'s.

 

[Grador]

To post a counterpoint: If you're using HDMI you will hear absolutely no difference at all. I can't speak to the video processing features of either of the units, but if you're using none of them there will be no video differences either. If you're not looking to use any of the features, then they aren't a selling point either. New warranty is kinda moot since if your other unit fails you'll be buying a new unit...which is what you'll be doing for the new warranty.

 

[audiofox]

Grador and PENG, thanks for your quick responses-your interest inspired me to do a bit more research, which I have detailed below.

Grador, I agree with you with respect to the audio-since the audio processing is occurring in the respective receivers, the difference in DACs and analog output stages between the two decks is somewhat irrelevant. I found a thread here (using Google!) that states that the RX-A3000 uses the Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DAC, which is apparently their top of the line DAC, so I feel pretty good about the audio signal path (ie, BDP-83 via HDMI to the RX-A3000, then to the Rotels via the BBPCM1796). I can't find any information about the analog stage that follows the DAC, but given the quality of the DAC, I am hoping it is at least as good. As for the Denon, it has Burr Brown PCM 1791A DACs (one per channel), which are no slouches, either. In fact, the DACs in both receivers have dynamic range in excess of 113 dB, THD+N less than 0.001%, can sample up to 24-192 and have less than 0.002 dB output passband ripple (the 1796 is slightly better than the 1791A in the key specs). This is as good or better than the Cirrus Logic DAC in the BDP-103 (114 dB DR, -100 dB/0.001% THD+N, up to 24-192 sampling-no passband ripple spec to compare, though). The BDP-105 has ESS Sabre32 Reference DACs for the analog audio outputs (which are arguably the best audio DAC available today, with better than 135 dB DR and -120 dB THD+N, among other excellent features), which are the same as those used in the BDP-95 (PENG, this is why you probably don't hear a difference!), so the only two Oppo players that can offer me better audio performance are the 95 and the 105 (and that is only if I use the analog outputs and bypass the receiver DACs). Oppo's incredible customer service somewhat obviates the need for a new warranty-they replaced the drive mechanism on one of my 83s for no charge (other than shipping), even though the deck was out of warranty by two years (a BIG reason I am looking only at Oppos for my replacements).

The wild card is the video processing-I am not familiar with the differences in video processing between the Oppo and either receiver (or the newer units, for that matter), so that where I need to focus my assessment. For the most part, the other feature differences are not decision drivers for me, as I have other options available for video and audio streaming (Apple TV, Roku, Mac Mini servers), remotes (currently have a URC MX-980/MSC-400 and MX-880/MRF-350 remote setup for the media and living rooms) and network capability (already have a dedicated ethernet cable for both systems). The only capability I would like to have not currently available on the 83 is the ability to play larger video file sizes via the USB port-the 4GB limitation prevents me from playing my collection of 1080p video files via the 83's USB port (converted from my Bluray collection), which would be a nice feature to have; however, I can still play them via a software player in my Mac Mini video server (one of the main reasons I use the receiver audio DACs), so it is really a matter of convenience, not capability.

Grador, PENG, thanks again for your quick responses-I will try to post my findings in this thread in the event that it can help others with the same trade in mind.

 

[PENG]

I have compared my Denon 3910 that has the PCM1796 (no, that is not their top of the line but one notch above the 1791) to my 95 and now 105 and heard no difference. I think once you get pass the entry level no name brand DAC, you will unlikely be able to tell them apart. It is much easier to tell the difference between the quality of CDs, SACD, Flacs and speakers. That's why I suggested it may be worth upgrading from the 83 to 103 for the features but if you can't benefit from the added/updated features then there is no point.

As for the video, again, test patterns will likely show the superiority of the 83 or 103 over most receivers and even the latest BDP from Panny and Sony, but I also find no perceivable difference in PQ between all my BDP (6 in total). In fact, sometime I feel my very old Samsung BDP-2550 does a better job upscaling DVD but I am quite sure that's an impression as the Oppo players do consistently show better results in bench tests. My point is, lab measurements and test patterns are design to highlight/exagerrate the differences and the use of instruments allow reviews to quantify the differences on paper, but that does not mean you can really benefit from the superior performance on paper, when viewing real world video material. Of course that's just my two cents.