Clean tight and accurate under $1K recommendations please

[Acoustat]

Things have come a long ways since 40 oz magnets and 8 track 12V systems.
For >example< technology.
I'm not up to speed on a lot of things, but I know great sound when I hear it.
Along with accuracy I'm also wanting 500 or more W/Ch, room is 15 x 28.

Looking for a sealed sub and trying to be dual appointed at music and HT...
so far in reading (I cannot audition anything locally) what I've come up with is
Rythmik Audio &bull; 15" servo subwoofer F15
I can't help but wander if I could do better and perhaps for less money.
I'm not wanting just to get a sub that will save me a few dollars and shake the house
so those who have a discerning ear for getting lost in their music, and have a high demand
on the HT end of things too and have auditioned some really nice sealed subs, I'm all ears



also, dual 12" or single 15" unit or a single 12" capable of 500+watts.
Just curious if the 12's are a tighter faster sound, and who knows what size room
they will finally rest in if we move...

 

[crossedover]

For your room size... POWER SOUND AUDIO — XS30se Home Audio Powered Subwoofer bump your budget slightly .. also FWIW watts mean very little when sub shopping

 

[ImcLoud]

$500 is on the edge, if you go up to $600 you can get a vtf2, which is nice for music and ht...

 

[jkgsxr]

$500 is on the edge, if you go up to $600 you can get a vtf2, which is nice for music and ht...

He was looking for something with a 500 watt or more amp, it says he has 1k to spend.

 

[ImcLoud]

He was looking for something with a 500 watt or more amp, it says he has 1k to spend.

Oops thats what I get for watching tv and posting... I should have known I couldn't do 2 things at once...

$1000 Dual VTF2's.... hands down... I have tried a lot of subs, vtf2 is the guy, call hsu try to get a deal on a pair...

 

[jcparks]

For sealed design under 1000 I think any of the Rythmic or SVS subs will make you happy
For 949 you can do 2 SB1000 subs and still come in under budget.
Dual SB-1000
for 700 I can personally attest to the performance of a single SVS SB2000, it is awesome! If you decide you can afford more you can go dual for 1300. I fully intend on adding a second in the near future myself.
The rythmic F15 will push you over budget after shipping, if your willing to spend that extra you may also check out the HSU ULS-15 which is on sale right now for around 1100 shipped
ULS-15 Subwoofer
That is all I can think of in sealed designs under 1000 dollars.

 

[jcparks]

Oh I forgot...
If you aren't afraid of a little DIY... you can try this monster.
Dayton Audio RS1202K 1000 Watt Dual 12" Subwoofer Kit
The assembly should actually be relatively simple. Just let me know what you think of it if you decide to go with this one.

 

[wlmmn]

For your room size... POWER SOUND AUDIO — XS30se Home Audio Powered Subwoofer bump your budget slightly .. also FWIW watts mean very little when sub shopping

I also like clean, tight accurate sealed bass for dual-purpose HT and music, and I've heard very good things about that sub. I have an Emotiva Ultra 12 and was looking at this PSA sub to upgrade.

 

[3db]

Things have come a long ways since 40 oz magnets and 8 track 12V systems.
For >example< technology.
I'm not up to speed on a lot of things, but I know great sound when I hear it.
Along with accuracy I'm also wanting 500 or more W/Ch, room is 15 x 28.

Looking for a sealed sub and trying to be dual appointed at music and HT...
so far in reading (I cannot audition anything locally) what I've come up with is
Rythmik Audio • 15" servo subwoofer F15
I can't help but wander if I could do better and perhaps for less money.
I'm not wanting just to get a sub that will save me a few dollars and shake the house
so those who have a discerning ear for getting lost in their music, and have a high demand
on the HT end of things too and have auditioned some really nice sealed subs, I'm all ears

View attachment 13985

also, dual 12" or single 15" unit or a single 12" capable of 500+watts.
Just curious if the 12's are a tighter faster sound, and who knows what size room
they will finally rest in if we move...

Rythmik subs employ servo feedback in their control. You will be very hard pressed to find a more articulate sub than Rythmik. I have their entry level unit, the LV12-R and I would pit this ported sub against any sealed sub you care to throw at it in terms of articulation. Its just that good. There are other Rythmik owners here as well and they can also chime in to the quality of their product.

 

[Steve81]

I'd suggest looking at either the PSA XS15se or XS30se. You can find a review / measurements of the XS15se by Josh Ricci who does AH's reviews here:
Data-Bass
Both models also qualify for free returns if you're not satisfied.

 

[crossedover]

I'd suggest looking at either the PSA XS15se or XS30se. You can find a review / measurements of the XS15se by Josh Ricci who does AH's reviews here:
Data-Bass
Both models also qualify for free returns if you're not satisfied.

Especially with his room size

 

[TLS Guy]

For sealed design under 1000 I think any of the Rythmic or SVS subs will make you happy
For 949 you can do 2 SB1000 subs and still come in under budget.
Dual SB-1000
for 700 I can personally attest to the performance of a single SVS SB2000, it is awesome! If you decide you can afford more you can go dual for 1300. I fully intend on adding a second in the near future myself.
The rythmic F15 will push you over budget after shipping, if your willing to spend that extra you may also check out the HSU ULS-15 which is on sale right now for around 1100 shipped
ULS-15 Subwoofer
That is all I can think of in sealed designs under 1000 dollars.

I think either of those will work for him.

He has Acoustat electrostatic panels. His problem is he wants more spl. The Acoustats had a sub that crossed at 100 HZ, and had woofers front and back.

Now panels have to be protected from arcing by fast voltage limiters which cause hard sudden unpleasant clipping to stop instant destruction of the panels. By crossing at 100 Hz Acoustat claimed an increase of 8 db in overall spl.

So he needs a sub that will extend to 200 HZ, that will give him an octave above crossover.

Both these subs fit the bill.

The Rhythmic.

The SVS just makes it.

Having to use a crossover that high, it would be best to have two subs placed to the side of each panel. For one sub he should place it midway between the panels.

It is tricky integrating subs with electrostatic panels.

In another post the OP finally mentioned the issue that he wanted more spl from his system.

Low spl. is a problem for electrostatic panels unless they are vast.

A 500 Hz crossover helps solve it, but the di-pole monopole transition is not satisfactory in my view.

Filling the speaker with inert gasses like Argon was tried by Dayton Wright. However the gas diffused though the membrane and they soon went broke.

The F3 of his panels is mid fifties. However his problem is not just bass extension but spl.

So a cross at least as high as 100 HZ is mandatory. Even then an increase of 8 db spl may well be optimistic, though just plausible.

 

[shadyJ]

I would get two subs with the OPs criteria. I would be looking at either dual Hsu VTF2s or Rythmik LV12rs. Two Reaction BPS 212s might be good as well. They can not be placed anywhere though, they have to be placed and setup with care to get the best performance out of them. If you do that, you will have a neutral response that will be better than any one sub alone can give you.

One more thing, in order to get higher than a 90 Hz upper extension on the Rythmik subs, you have to use the LFE input on them.

 

[Acoustat]

Guys, thanks a lot for your input! All of you. I'm certainly not here to waste your time and I appreciate your efforts

Rythmik subs employ servo feedback in their control. You will be very hard pressed to find a more articulate sub than Rythmik. I have their entry level unit, the LV12-R and I would pit this ported sub against any sealed sub you care to throw at it in terms of articulation. Its just that good. There are other Rythmik owners here as well and they can also chime in to the quality of their product.

Precisely, though the Rythmik I'm looking at is sealed based on TLS's advice trying to compliment the mains.
Been hoping someone with Rythmik experience would chime in. The direct servo sounds like a no brainer
but on paper is nothing, so thanks again.

I'd suggest looking at either the PSA XS15se or XS30se. You can find a review / measurements of the XS15se by Josh Ricci who does AH's reviews here:
Data-Bass
Both models also qualify for free returns if you're not satisfied.

Being able to return is great and I did have a look at the single 15" of theirs this morning real quick.
The duals would fit my taste better and I considered building a pair of passives to run off the main amp.

I would get two subs with the OPs criteria. I would be looking at either dual Hsu VTF2s or Rythmik LV12rs. Two Reaction BPS 212s might be good as well. They can not be placed anywhere though, they have to be placed and setup with care to get the best performance out of them. If you do that, you will have a neutral response that will be better than any one sub alone can give you.

One more thing, in order to get higher than a 90 Hz upper extension on the Rythmik subs, you have to use the LFE input on them.

A pair of duals, just aren't in the bank unless you want to buy my reef tank
Great info on the LFE input above 90 Hz, how did you know that?
Now, if I understand LFE (like I said I'm not up to speed on a lot of things and had to search that)
it is a single channel bass signal carried to the sub from the probably now AVRs used today (the .1 signal)

Is it possible to run twin subs with LFS daisy chained? Daisy chained and .1 and LFE sound so...not stereo
to be politically correct I'm thinking and not to offend some out there who love their .1 channel

I would be looking at either dual Hsu VTF2s or Rythmik LV12rs

I do not see dual 12's at Rythmik I do see the model 25, dual 15's
Now a pair of the Legacy Goliaths would be my preference, but I want to stay married.

What I'm seeing in the Rythmik is a sub that attends to some of the pitfalls of subwoofer designs.
Notice, I have not made a pair of duals yet. If you click the hyper link in the OP (example)
and conventional subwoofers, scroll down, there's a bit of paper work that makes the direct servo sound great.
For one instance:

Sealed subwoofers seek to eliminate the rear wave. The problem in the case of sealed subwoofers is that the rear wave is re-radiated through the cone. Many focus on the impact of this rear wave on causing the box itself to flex and vibrate, but a greater concern is the driver itself which is designed to radiate sound! The rear wave can cause the cone to move and re-radiate with a small phase shift.

So, TLS guy, your input is valuable and appreciated. At this point, I'm already $800 over the original ball park
idea of $1000 for complete HT sound, so I'll need to look at subs that can be connected to each other or in my case
a .2 sub out on my AVR. Though not high end, I can live with monorail sub (2 channels in one unit )
whether they're paired duals or not, they're still going to be combined L and R channel low frequencies in a single box.
I can live with a single sub till money allows a change, and your mention of centre placement may be an issue
with the wife's decor. If I have to offset it, how close to another speaker do you think I could get?
I'm sure it depends each speaker style, and will have to play around with locations.

Are 15" drivers just as capable of the same tight nimbleness of a 12" with quality manufacturing?

 

[Acoustat]

Another thing I'm seeing with the Rythmik
is the amp has a lot of filters and so on to accommodate particular nuances
setups, acoustics and so on. I'm really not seeing this as an inferior sub
relying on settings to overcome quality issues, rather a versatile tool.
I could be wrong, but I'm really not hearing anything "sub par" about the Rythmik company.
Another versatility is the power supply 110-120 or 220-240V.

Versatility is a big quality, including being able to use RCA or XLR for long run inputs.

I don't think this is a sign of making an attempt to overcome acoustical inaccuracies.

 

[Acoustat]

a lot of hocus pocus to upgrade a driver

The process to upgrade your Power X subwoofer is outlined below:
1.Power Sound Audio ships you an empty shipping box with a return shipping label for your Power-X subwoofer amplifier.

2. Once you receive this box. Remove the subwoofer amp following the provided instructions. Carefully pack the amp in the provided shipping box and place the included shipping label on the top of the box.

3. Once we receive the amplifier at Power Sound Audio we will reprogram, test it, and rebox it. This will usually take one business day. We will then ship your reprogrammed amplifier and new SE driver.

4. Once you receive the new amplifier and driver, install them in your subwoofer following the provided instructions.

5.Test the subwoofer to ensure it is operating properly.

6. Pack the original 15" driver in the shipping box used for the new SE driver, place the included shipping label on it, and hand it off to FedEx at your earliest convenience.

geez I understand drop shipping, but that is counter productive from this angle.
Hopefully this is for a preowned subwoofer, not a new order?
That is actually a sweet deal if it's to upgrade an existing PSA.
EDIT:

Improve your Power X subwoofer to the current model with an SE Subwoofer

sweet
I need to read the whole thing before I open my mouth.

 

[Steve81]

Are 15" drivers just as capable of the same tight nimbleness of a 12" with quality manufacturing?

Indeed they are. See #6
Data-Bass

 

[TLS Guy]

Guys, thanks a lot for your input! All of you. I'm certainly not here to waste your time and I appreciate your efforts View attachment 13987

Precisely, though the Rythmik I'm looking at is sealed based on TLS's advice trying to compliment the mains.
Been hoping someone with Rythmik experience would chime in. The direct servo sounds like a no brainer
but on paper is nothing, so thanks again.


Being able to return is great and I did have a look at the single 15" of theirs this morning real quick.
The duals would fit my taste better and I considered building a pair of passives to run off the main amp.


A pair of duals, just aren't in the bank unless you want to buy my reef tank
Great info on the LFE input above 90 Hz, how did you know that?
Now, if I understand LFE (like I said I'm not up to speed on a lot of things and had to search that)
it is a single channel bass signal carried to the sub from the probably now AVRs used today (the .1 signal)
View attachment 13988
Is it possible to run twin subs with LFS daisy chained? Daisy chained and .1 and LFE sound so...not stereo
to be politically correct I'm thinking and not to offend some out there who love their .1 channel


I do not see dual 12's at Rythmik I do see the model 25, dual 15's
Now a pair of the Legacy Goliaths would be my preference, but I want to stay married.

What I'm seeing in the Rythmik is a sub that attends to some of the pitfalls of subwoofer designs.
Notice, I have not made a pair of duals yet. If you click the hyper link in the OP (example)
and conventional subwoofers, scroll down, there's a bit of paper work that makes the direct servo sound great.
For one instance:


So, TLS guy, your input is valuable and appreciated. At this point, I'm already $800 over the original ball park
idea of $1000 for complete HT sound, so I'll need to look at subs that can be connected to each other or in my case
a .2 sub out on my AVR. Though not high end, I can live with monorail sub (2 channels in one unit )
whether they're paired duals or not, they're still going to be combined L and R channel low frequencies in a single box.
I can live with a single sub till money allows a change, and your mention of centre placement may be an issue
with the wife's decor. If I have to offset it, how close to another speaker do you think I could get?
I'm sure it depends each speaker style, and will have to play around with locations.

Are 15" drivers just as capable of the same tight nimbleness of a 12" with quality manufacturing?

The driver size has nothing to do with tightness. It all comes down to Q. A low total system Q will give you a tight bass. Total system Q can never be lower than driver Q, so you need to start with a low Q driver.

I recommend always driving subs mono.

The problem with sub placement for you is going to be localization. If you place the sub centrally it will not pull the image. If you use the Rhythmic sub, you can set the crossover as high as you your receiver will let you. The higher you can set the sub, the higher your spl will be. So the receiver might let you go as high as 120 Hz. However 100 Hz and higher crossover are likely to give you localization issues, that is why two subs will be best.

 

[jcparks]

Hey TLS that first graph is actually for the HSU ULS15, the sealed 15" for 1100 shipped
the response curve for the Rythmic F15 is on this page..
Rythmik Audio &bull; 15" servo subwoofer F15 specs
price for the Rythmic shipped before tax is 1070...

 

[Acoustat]

Indeed they are. See #6
Data-Bass

Thanx for that I was hoping that was the case.
I do not understand Q values, except the lower the better the...? quality, accuracy, ability?

Hey TLS that first graph is actually for the HSU ULS15, the sealed 15" for 1100 shipped
the response curve for the Rythmic F15 is on this page..
Rythmik Audio • 15" servo subwoofer F15 specs
price for the Rythmic shipped before tax is 1070...

Oh no! I could read the HSU graph, but the Rythmik is Greek to me. I am lost. Not a good illustration
the one who drew up that gave no reference to color scheme and failed to make clear to me what was happening with the 2
or why two lines were involved.
You may know right off the bat just fine, I on the other hand am ignorant.
I see the difference in the additional low pass filtre comparison for sure.
What I'm looking at starts at $974 Rythmik Audio &bull; 15" servo subwoofer F15
but that's a 600W amp. Very confusing as it states both these amps are standard
H600PEQ3 and A370PEQ3
Please see Amplifier options 1st line
then Description in bold