Cerwin Vega Clsc-12 Amplifier Help Needed

[scarb0r0]

hey i just got a pair of cerwin vega clsc-12 tower speakers that can handle an rms rating of 300W. I currently have a yamaha 5950 amp, which is barely pushing any bass. I had an old realistic amp that pushes bass like crazy. Does anyone know a good and powerful amp under $550 that delivers a lot of bass to see the true potential of these speakers? i need that bass haha

 

[tubesaregood]

A different amplifier won't give you more or less bass, at least never near the point where one would think they need a new amplifier due to lack of bass response. Get an equalizer or another amplifier with tone controls on it.

 

[scarb0r0]

Well for tone control, the old realistic amp had an analog dial to crank the bass, plus a button labelled loudness. That button boosted the overall system and especially the bass. I really havent seen any modern amps put out as much power as the old older ones I have seen. Any suggestions as to a modern amp with these types of features? I mean why else would someone by Vegas other to get that heavy bass out of them.

 

[Nuglets]

I used my PV-1500 to drive my CV E-315 tower's along with a 31-band GEQ with much success, especially in the bass department. The previous owner of the CV's was also using an old yamaha receiver and with that loudness knob you can really get a lot of bass out of them, much more than what I could achieve with any of the newer receiver's I've owned.

 

[skizzerflake]

I suggest getting as much power as you can find and using an equalizer to boost the bass. You need to be careful however, because lows use much more amp power than highs and if you boost too much you can cause the amp to clip, which can damage speakers. At best, if you overdrive, the protection will kick in and cut off the amp, but that will interrupt the music. Something like a used Carver, which can be up to 400 wpc, would supply lots of quality power.

Alternate to all of this, get a subwoofer.

 

[scarb0r0]

Well, it still looks like the best alternatives are those that you guys mentioned. It's a shame they don't really make quality stereo amps anymore, as the whole move to 5.1 and 7.1 has basically left stereo ignored. But, yes the eq is a good option, but those old heavy stereo amps like my old one just cannot be matched by these new fancy recievers, unless you intend to spend lots of cash on good equipment.

 

[ski2xblack]

There are plenty of good stereo amps out there, if you are willing to look. Outlaw, NAD, Onix off the top of my head all have integrated 2 channel amps in the price range you're looking at, and all would probably just crush the Yamaha you are currently using.

That yamaha you are using is part of the line which is sold at the big box stores, and a perfect example of the 'all channels driven' fallacy, as it is rated at 85 wpc@1khz, not full bandwidth. A full frequency signal would cause distortion to ramp up at a lower output level than that. Also, the yamaha ht series lack the loudness control which their stereo receivers still have, which is a feature you would likely appreciate.

Here's a cheap alternative. You could get yourself a BBE 362 at the local guitar store for about $80, put it in a tape loop on your receiver, and get all the bass boost you want, but you may tax the amps in your receiver by doing so (although, I am pretty sure your CV's are efficient enough to get pretty freaking loud with modest power on tap). I did this (add a BBE) specificly for a friend who also uses one of the entry level yamaha ht receivers, to provide an adjustable 'loudness' control. Best $80 improvement you could make.

 

[scarb0r0]

Thanks a lot man. I should look into those suggestions. I have heard names such as NAD, Carver, etc... are very good for providing powerful stereo sound and bass. As for the HTR line, i am not very impressed with their stereo performance, but i should have opted for a stereo amp with the loudness control in the first place. After all, I'm pretty certain the Vega's were meant to be driven by a good stereo amplifier anyways. So, for those of us who have two loudspeaker towers, I guess it is best to go for a dedicated stereo amplifier with adjustable bass and the loudness function too. In this case, how much wattage is needed to push the CLSC-12 towers to deliver heavy bass and power, without the comprimise of clarity?

 

[highfihoney]

First of all you need to be clear on what your looking for,from your description of things i think you have the terminology confused.

A PREAMPLIFIER takes the signal from the source,cd player,dvd,tape ect & sends it to the amplifier,it also gives you volume control,source switching & depending on the make & model tone controls & loudness,balance control too.

A PROCESSOR can be used as a preamp but its main functions are home theater setttings & not stereo functions,rarely do these units contain standard tone controls as in actual knobs that you can adjust,instead they use equlization programs & bass management settings.

A PRE/PRO is a combination of a stereo preamp with a HT processor,some of the more expensive models will have seperate tone control knobs for bass & trebble but most do not.

An AMPLIFIER only amplifies the signal,amplifiers do not have tone controls or loudness contour,some amplifiers will have whats called "gain controls" that act like volume knobs but most do not.

An INTERGRATED amplifier is a preamp & amp put together in one chasis,an intergrated will handel all the source switching between components like tape,cd,dvd ect,most intergrated amplifiers will have tone & loudness controls & all will have volume controls.

A STEREO RECEIVER is an intergrated amplifier with a built in tuner so you can listen to the radio,stereo receivers will have bass,trebble,balance & loudness controls as well as a few other features.

An AVR (audio video receiver) is all of the above,these units contain a multi channel amplifier,a preamp,a processor & a tuner,most AVR's do not have standard tone controls as they are useless for the design of the unit.

Bass takes power plain & simple,you need wattage to properly run a full range signal from 20hz to 20khz,a full range speaker that is not reinforced with a powered (active) subwoofer will drain the power "wattage" of most economy model AVR'S.

Some of the more expensive model's of avr's have powerfull built in amplifiers but most economy models do not,they do not need powerfull amps,the use of built in crossovers inside AVR's will send most of the heavy bass to a POWERED SUBWOOFER,powered subs have their own built in amplifier so the built in amp in the AVR is handeling the easiest part of the load & the amp in the subwoofer is handeling all the heavy work load.

Now to decide on what you need,if your current AVR or RECEIVER does not have the tone & loudness controls you need then sell it off,you have lots of different directions that you can go,an equlizer is not the right direction for most people who are new to this or who want a simple system to operate.

Your current receiver is not only lacking tone & loudness controls its extremely underpowered,Cerwin Vegas like power,even though they are pretty easy to drive they still need alot of power to sound their best & to deleiver the bass they were intended to,adding an equlizer to your current receiver will not only complicate your system it will heavily tax the underpowered amp in the reciever.

For killer bass at loud listening levels you should not rely on using the loudness feature,loudness is supposed to be used at very low volumes due to the extreme boost in bass response,for loud volumes you should use tone controls only,this is where a hi powered amplifier comes into play.

Your best & most economical approach would be to buy a pro amplifier & a stereo preamplifier,for an amplifier the BehringerA500would be perfect for your power needs & fit your budget,it costs around $200.

For a preamp your best bet is to buy a used model from Audiogon.com,Audiogon is a site like ebay but its main focus is 2 channel audio gear,here is an excellent example of hi end preamps that sound excellent at budget prices,this preamp is a steal.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1185312757

With the cost of buying a new Behringer A500 amplifier plus the cost of this NAD stereo preamp,plus shipping your total cost would be right around $400 & this combination will work & sound better for your needs than any $550 receiver you can find.

 

[no. 5]

For killer bass at loud listening levels you should not rely on using the loudness feature,loudness is supposed to be used at very low volumes due to the extreme boost in bass response,for loud volumes you should use tone controls only,this is where a hi powered amplifier comes into play.

I second this.
And I would like to add a bit of information about the “loudness” control, witch is there to compensate for the response of human hearing at low levels, what it does (roughly) is make a “smiley face” EQ curve (huge boost on the bass and treble). One reason using “loudness” at high volumes is a bad idea is because any time volume (be it overall, or of a specific band, like bass) is increased, so does the required power to reach that volume.

 

[scarb0r0]

I appreciate the help guys, but do you know if it's best to just go for a stereo receiver with a lot of power to drive the Vegas? If not, what setup would you guys recommend ideal for getting a lot of power and bass out of the CLSC-12 towers? I am probably going to end up looking into a setup that is not too complicated, as I hoping I only need one good box to run everything.

 

[highfihoney]

It aint gonna happen bud,if you want real power,real tone controls & stay within your budget you might as well forget getting a receiver,your going to have to give up something,either the conveince of a one box system or the performance of dedicated hi power amplification & hifi quality preamplification.

A stereo preamplifier & a 2 channel amplifier is the only way to go for 2 channel stereo,the receiver market for 2 channel is a dead market & there is not much out there.

 

[Nick250]

Because of economies of scale buying an AV receiver and using it in "pure direct mode" stereo mode gives you a lot more choices and the sound quality will not change one way or the other. However if bass is really, really impotent to you I would think buying a subwoofer would work the best for you. There is no 100% right or 100% wrong in in posts in this thread.

Nick

 

[scarb0r0]

well i just got a deal on the yamaha rx-797 stereo reciever which puts out 100W RMS and it does the job pretty well. I might upgrade in the future but i need decent speaker wire. The one i'm using is roughly 20 years old.

 

[MOOSEKNUCKLE]

Any Opinions On The Harman Kardon Line...for The Application?
Say The Hk3485?