ceiling speaker location help

[jpaul]

I'm placing two ceiling speakers in my living room. the room is 24x24.
if I set them in the same location at my lights they will be set at 5'3"
apart, is this to close. I'm afraid to get to close to the from front towers,
they may drown out the ceiling speakers.
I have an alternate location also which sets them at 8'3", or I could
leave them one closer to the front in alighnment with the light and move the other 1'6" back giving them a space of 7'3"
What would be the best placement?
Thanks
Jpaul

 

[bigpapa]

I don't understand your layout.

It looks like you have a 5.1 on the ground, and the two speakers you speaker of (he he) are directly above the seating area, linear with the sound stage.

What information is supposed to be coming out of these speakers?

 

[jpaul]

7.1 system, 1 center, 2 tower fronts, 2 rear, 1 sub and 2 ceiling speakers.
the TV is shown long. the seating area is only on the speakers side
of the room. The door and 2 windows are not seating areas.
Basic question, whats the proper distance and location for ceiling
speakers?
Thanks
Jpaul

 

[bigpapa]

The surrounds in a 7.1 should be just behind and just above you. Since you're in the ceiling, they should be just behind you, but to either side.

Switch the alignment of them perpendicular to where they are drawn, parallel to the seating area.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/hometheaterspeakerlayout.php

Spend some time at the Audioholics links. Lotsa good info. Good luck.

 

[Sheep]

so...if you have non inwall speakers all around, why do you want to do in ceiling for these? The Rear timber will not match, and the sonic effect of the rears will not match either.

I say stay out of the walls.

SheepStar

 

[jpaul]

Thanks, the link helped a lot. I don't know if I canfollow it exactly because of our ceiling fan but I can get close.
The rear speaker may end up being wall mounted about 7 feet high. I cant place any floor speakers to the left or right of the seating. They only place I can get them is in the ceiling. I'm new to sound and acoustics, how would
placing them in the ceiling effect the timber and sonics? nI have one shot at his because my ceiling being redone.
Thanks
JPaul

 

[jcPanny]

Rear surrounds

Here are a couple of the issues with in cieling speakers:
1. In ceiling speakers will not tonally match the other surround speakers because they wont have same driver and or cabinet.
2. The 6.1 or 7.1 sound track is designed to have the rear surround track comming from behind the listener. Your brain interprets the sound differently so you wont get the same effect.

If you go with inceiling, place them further back and make sure you can direct the tweeters toward the listening position.

Here are a few options you might consider:
1. 5.1 surround system, no ceiling speakers.
2. Bookshelf type speakes that match the side surrounds mounted to the ceiling with omnimount type brackets.
3. Bookshelf type speakers mounted to the back wall with brackets.
4. Bookshelf type speakers on stands behind the listening position.

 

[bigpapa]

Matching timbre is important... but

I agree that matching timber is important and desireable. But, this is a built in system. Aesthetics, room shape, and most importantly Wife Acceptance Factor could be in play.

I worry most about timbre in my LeftCenterRight. If I'm going to give up a match, I'd doing it with surrounds.

jpaul, they are right about timbre. It's good to have all the speakers come from the same manufacturer, using the same parts, design characteristics, materials, engineering, etc. Frequently, center and front speakers are designed to work with each other, and then surrounds will be designed to work with those. But you can't hang a bookshelf from the ceiling, can you?

Sticking with a 5.1 isn't a bad idea either, but why not just go for it? Put the ceiling speakers as close as possible to the dimensions in the audioholics links, but line them up to the lights aesthetically first. George Lucas would understand. We don't live in a perfect world.

Buiild back boxes for the ceiling speakers... any speaker manufacturer could provide specs on cubic feet of enclosure. PM me if you need help, or post publicly to get more info. You're looking at about .75 cubic feet for a 5.25 to 6.5" driver. Make sure any enclosures are matched in size and shape as best as possible.

It's not hard. Seal it with caulk (airtight) and insulate the enclosures before sheetrock. Use heavy and dense material, 2x4 and 7/8" ply (at least).

My compadres have made good points, but I'm on the Go For It platform this election season.

 

[jpaul]

thanks, good advice

Message sent PM and Posted.

Thanks bigpapa, I'm going to give it a try. I'll place the speakers within the same angles given and build a box to place in the ceiling for them.
I hoping to purchase the ceiling speakers from
the same company that I will be getting the rest of the speakers from. I'm on a budget so I'm looking at
around 1500 to 2200 for the 2 twrs, 1 center, 2-rears
and a really powerfull sub. hopefully 2- 12" with ports.
The box for the cieling speakers, could you send me the HxWxD dimensions? I'm thinking that a box
that is 10"x10"x10" would work?
I since I'm pulling the cieling down today, I want to get everything in place before the contractors show up (if ever) to place the sheetrock. We're in the hurricane rita area and getting contractors is tough.
But, it gives me time to get everything set up.
The speakers system I've been considering is the def tech. but I like ports in the bass and theirs doesn't have any. I'm also looking at axioms and psb, energy
also. Do you have any advice on speakers that are good for music as well as movies and that is close
to my budget?
Thanks
Jpaul

 

[AVRat]

Have you considered Polks? They offer good bang for buck value to help meet your budget. BTW, what are you powering your system with?

 

[jpaul]

I haven't purchased anything yet but, I'm leaning toward the denon AVR 3805 of one step down for 899. Also I'm considering the Sony ES and the Arcam
reciever. All from 800 to 1100 price range. Also I'm planning on adding a power amp to the system purhaps the Moster Power unit.
The sub will be powered also. I don't yet know all of the equipment that I should get so I'm learning and researching as a go.
Thanks
Jpaul

 

[bigpapa]

I like my 3805. It has more than sufficient power for your room and $2k worth of speakers in it. Buy the $30 microphone and do the auto set up. That alone is a very cool feature. I like Denon's menu structure, and you only need to hook up one component video feed to your TV... it upscales to component.

Don't buy the Denon for the remote. Denon's remotes suck.

The 3805 has been around for a while. It might go on closeout sometime in '06 is my guess... more $ for speakers!!!

I've never touched or seen an Arcam.

I install Sony ES series all the time. They seem powerful enough, but I hate their menu system. I have several ES7100's to install over the next 2-3 months, ask me later how they worked out.

 

[jpaul]

scrap the ceiling speakers

I've decided to scap the ceiling speakers, my ceiling beams has to be taken out
and re-done. we're going with a another type of ceiling (tray) that will allow
for acoustics. we may add the extra speakers later but we'll place them cleverly in a good location.
thanks
Jpaul