CBS/Paramount are Copyright Trolls - Beyond Bored of Star Trek Reboot

[gene]

After success at the box office, the Star Trek franchise reboot has proven it's profitable to turn out forgettable action movies that bear only superficial similarity to the Star Trek universe. Meanwhile, fanfiction like Axanar Productions have earned recognition with high production quality this becoming easier to obtain with today's digital technology. So, why is Axanar being sued instead of hired to make the next Trek movie?

Why do Trek fans think Axanar is bad for all fanfiction. Bad rap or is the controversial Axanar Productions trying to pull a fast-one on unsuspecting fans?

Read: CBS/Paramount are Copyright Trolls - Beyond Bored of Star Trek Reboot

Please vote in our poll and share your thoughts in the thread below.

 

[gene]

 

[AudioArkie]

I'm sorry, but much of the content in the story this thread is about related to the fan production "Axanar" is illogical, irrational, and nonsensical at BEST and flat out wrong at worst.

Just look at the things that Axanar has done that are alleged to be "wrong".

They have raised a "ton" of money.

Really? What, is Wil Wheaton Bernie Sanders in disguise? Since when is it a sin to raise a "ton" of money via crowd funding for a non-profit project? Is this already the USSR?

They violated the letter, and more importantly the spirit of the legal definition of "fanfiction"

WHAT legal definition of fanfiction? If such a thing exists (I would bet real money it does not), I have not seen it. Furthermore, CBS has pointedly, and steadfastly REFUSED to provide ANY guidance to fan productions with regard to what is acceptable, and what is not. Even when specifically asked. As Axanar DID in the past. I suspect that comment was also meant to imply that Axanar has violated the letter and spirit of non-profit. That too, is baloney. There are literally thousands of non profits that have built infrastructure, and paid employees to accomplish their goals. Non profit does NOT mean all volunteer and operating under a tent.

They used the money they raised to build a studio.

First of all, they built sets in an existing studio that they are remodeling to suit their needs. Guess what? ALL of the fan productions that produce a high quality product (With one exception, "Horizon" was produced in the film makers basement using EXTENSIVE home grown CGI) have done THE SAME THING. "Star Trek Continues" have practically recreated every set used in the original series. "Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II" have also built extensive sets. BOTH have studios that they either own or lease. Which they paid for with CROWD FUNDING.

They are leasing their studio under a different name.

Yeah, so what? They are (legally, to satisfy non profit requirements) keeping the physical studio separate from Axanar. And what do you expect them to do while coping with the B.S. suit brought by CBS? Bleed all the crowd funded money down the drain in lease fees while they wait on resolution of the suit?

As you might have guessed, I am solidly in the Axanar corner where this suit is concerned. I am also firmly convinced that legally and ethically Axanar is in the right and CBS is in the wrong. Axanar has been singled out after doing little if anything differently than any other fan production. The exceptions being the quality of the production, and the fact they plan a feature length film instead of an "episode". This is also one of the most IDIOTIC things I have ever seen a network do. As a fan who finds the J.J. Abrams Trek to be mildly entertaining (it IS well cast and acted) but miserably executed crap with more fundamental and unforgivable flaws than I care to list here , I was really looking forward to a new Star Trek feature what was worthy of the name.

The CBS suit feels like a slap in the face to me.

 

[rojo]

I'm sorry, but much of the content in the story this thread is about related to the fan production "Axanar" is illogical, irrational, and nonsensical at BEST and flat out wrong at worst.

Just look at the things that Axanar has done that are alleged to be "wrong".

They have raised a "ton" of money.

Really? What, is Wil Wheaton Bernie Sanders in disguise? Since when is it a sin to raise a "ton" of money via crowd funding for a non-profit project? Is this already the USSR?

They violated the letter, and more importantly the spirit of the legal definition of "fanfiction"

WHAT legal definition of fanfiction? If such a thing exists (I would bet real money it does not), I have not seen it. Furthermore, CBS has pointedly, and steadfastly REFUSED to provide ANY guidance to fan productions with regard to what is acceptable, and what is not. Even when specifically asked. As Axanar DID in the past. I suspect that comment was also meant to imply that Axanar has violated the letter and spirit of non-profit. That too, is baloney. There are literally thousands of non profits that have built infrastructure, and paid employees to accomplish their goals. Non profit does NOT mean all volunteer and operating under a tent.

They used the money they raised to build a studio.

First of all, they built sets in an existing studio that they are remodeling to suit their needs. Guess what? ALL of the fan productions that produce a high quality product (With one exception, "Horizon" was produced in the film makers basement using EXTENSIVE home grown CGI) have done THE SAME THING. "Star Trek Continues" have practically recreated every set used in the original series. "Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II" have also built extensive sets. BOTH have studios that they either own or lease. Which they paid for with CROWD FUNDING.

They are leasing their studio under a different name.

Yeah, so what? They are (legally, to satisfy non profit requirements) keeping the physical studio separate from Axanar. And what do you expect them to do while coping with the B.S. suit brought by CBS? Bleed all the crowd funded money down the drain in lease fees while they wait on resolution of the suit?

As you might have guessed, I am solidly in the Axanar corner where this suit is concerned. I am also firmly convinced that legally and ethically Axanar is in the right and CBS is in the wrong. Axanar has been singled out after doing little if anything differently than any other fan production. The exceptions being the quality of the production, and the fact they plan a feature length film instead of an "episode". This is also one of the most IDIOTIC things I have ever seen a network do. As a fan who finds the J.J. Abrams Trek to be mildly entertaining (it IS well cast and acted) but miserably executed crap with more fundamental and unforgivable flaws than I care to list here , I was really looking forward to a new Star Trek feature what was worthy of the name.

The CBS suit feels like a slap in the face to me.

Not sure how you feel. You ought to open up and express your opinions. If you keep your feelings all bottled up like that, that can't be healthy.

I think I understand why CBS is bringing suit against Axanar. They are obligated to do so to protect ownership of their IP and prevent it leaking into the public domain.

The first time I was exposed to this concept, I was as affronted as you seem to be. Many years ago there was a very promising fan remake of Chrono Trigger called Chrono Resurrection, intended to be released as an homage to the original. While the project was well-intentioned, the owners of Chrono Trigger (Square Enix) forced the developers to abandon the project with a cease and desist letter. Resurrection wouldn't have diminished Square's product sales -- indeed, handled correctly, Square could have used it to increase their brand prestige while allowing this 3rd party fan group to shoulder the burden of the grunt work and talent. But in order to protect their intellectual property from being used for less desirable ends, they must cease-and-decist all projects beyond their control and ownership which use their characters and stories. This means they had to lawyer this well-meaning and highly promising project into submission.

As a fan of open source and public domain, I don't necessarily agree with the situation. After all, nothing is ever invented from scratch. All new ideas are built upon the work of those who came before, and we don't reinvent the wheel. Everything is a remix. It is what it is, though, and I'm powerless to change the world into what it should be. I guess that will have to wait until Stardate 41153.7.

 

[markw]

CBS should simply buy out AXANAR and have them work for them. Problem solved.

But, IMNSHO, what I saw of this was a few stunning SFX and a heckuva lot of talking heads.

Taking another approach, perhaps AXANAR could pony up for some creative writers and use their talents to create a universe of their own. Roddenberry did it. Frank Herbert did it with Dune. Isaac Asimov did it with Foundation. Terry Brooks did it with Shannara. ...and the list goes on and on and on.

 

[AudioArkie]

Not sure how you feel. You ought to open up and express your opinions. If you keep your feelings all bottled up like that, that can't be healthy.

I think I understand why CBS is bringing suit against Axanar. They are obligated to do so to protect ownership of their IP and prevent it leaking into the public domain.

The first time I was exposed to this concept, I was as affronted as you seem to be. Many years ago there was a very promising fan remake of Chrono Trigger called Chrono Resurrection, intended to be released as an homage to the original. While the project was well-intentioned, the owners of Chrono Trigger (Square Enix) forced the developers to abandon the project with a cease and desist letter. Resurrection wouldn't have diminished Square's product sales -- indeed, handled correctly, Square could have used it to increase their brand prestige while allowing this 3rd party fan group to shoulder the burden of the grunt work and talent. But in order to protect their intellectual property from being used for less desirable ends, they must cease-and-decist all projects beyond their control and ownership which use their characters and stories. This means they had to lawyer this well-meaning and highly promising project into submission.

As a fan of open source and public domain, I don't necessarily agree with the situation. After all, nothing is ever invented from scratch. All new ideas are built upon the work of those who came before, and we don't reinvent the wheel. Everything is a remix. It is what it is, though, and I'm powerless to change the world into what it should be. I guess that will have to wait until Stardate 41153.7.

There is a fundamental, and fatal flaw in your argument (and in my opinion the CBS suit) about how CBS is "....obligated to protect ownership of their IP......".

For at least a decade CBS allowed a myriad of Fan produced Star Trek films to be produced and distributed (for free) that use MORE of their intellectual property than Axanar does without so much as a raised eyebrow. "Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II" and "Star Trek Continues" both use sets, costumes, and props so authentic in appearance that they could have been used in the production of the original series and no one would know the difference. That represents a far greater "abuse" of intellectual property than ANYTHING Axanar has done, or plans to do.

I use the word "abuse" with a near infinite amount of sarcasm.

Bye the way, I know I am only one fan, so the impact to CBS will be insignificant. Nevertheless, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I will watch the new series on the CBS streaming service. I would't have been likely to subsidize the CBS streaming service anyway, but the way CBS has conducted themselves with regard to Axanar raises that to a certainty.

 

[gene]

Looks like Paramount/CBS is dropping the lawsuit thanks to the persuasion of Justin Lin and J.J. Abrams.
http://deadline.com/2016/05/star-trek-axanar-lawsuit-ending-jj-abrams-paramount-1201760721/

This is good news and we will be updating the article accordingly.

 

[agarwalro]

This is good news and we will be updating the article accordingly.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with this statement.

I have been following this with ambivalent feelings towards both Aaxnar and CBS/Paramount. IMO, the lawsuit needed to be brought to fruition exactly due to these ambiguities:

They violated the letter, and more importantly the spirit of the legal definition of "fanfiction"

WHAT legal definition of fanfiction?

As it stands now, the confusion continued and will inevitably resurface with different player contesting what exactly is the boundary of fair use.

 

[gene]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with this statement.

I have been following this with ambivalent feelings towards both Aaxnar and CBS/Paramount. IMO, the lawsuit needed to be brought to fruition exactly due to these ambiguities:



As it stands now, the confusion continued and will inevitably resurface with different player contesting what exactly is the boundary of fair use.

Supposedly CBS/Paramount are working on terms to clearly define the limitations of fanfiction. I guess we will see in the coming weeks how this goes. My understanding is there are clear boundaries defined when people make Star Wars fanfiction, so the same should be true for Star Trek as well.

 

[gene]

CBS/Paramount Sets Phasers to Kill on Star Trek Fan-Fiction with New Guidelines

The Star Trek fan-fiction controversy that resulted in legal battles between CBS/Paramount and Axanar Productions may have concluded last week. CBS/Paramount have finally put forth its long-awaited guidelines intended to clarify acceptable fan-fiction so that it won’t get the creative Star Trek fan sued for copyright infringement. But in doing so, it may have launched Star Trek fan-fiction’s torpedo casket into space with a solemn salute. To be or not to be is the question which we ask about the future of Star Trek fanfilm.

Read the Article

 

[Michael Hinman]

Just wanted to point out a few issues with this commentary (factual aspects, not opinion aspects):

* These guidelines do not conclude the Axanar lawsuit. That is still ongoing, although John Van Citters (VP of product development at CBS) has reiterated that court-mandated settlement talks continue.

* Although you are saying "fan-fiction," these guidelines don't cover fan-fiction in general, but instead the fan-film subset. Audio works and written works would not be included in these guidelines.

* CBS and Paramount were not "making a point" with the lawsuit. They had tried to bring Axanar into compliance with what they expect from fan-films, and Axanar did not comply. CBS and Paramount do not have to allow any fan-films or fan-fiction in general, for that matter.

* CBS and Paramount were not "threatened by amateurs." They took action against a group they believed were turning a fan-film into a commercial enterprise. There is a difference between getting your friends together to play Star Trek in front of a camera, and raising more than a million dollars to create a commercial studio, "license" merchandise, and some of the other crazy commercial things this "fan" production was doing.

* CBS nor Paramount ever said they would "relent" its lawsuit. The only person to say that was someone contracted with Paramount, J.J. Abrams, who does not speak on behalf of Paramount or CBS. When Abrams spoke, by the way, he never said that the lawsuit would be "dropped." He said it was "going away." There is a big difference, as "dropping" a lawsuit requires a specific legal action, which I believe is no longer even available at this point without a court-approved settlement of some sort.

 

[mhdaniels31]

I think CBS is right Axanar is way beyond what constitutes fan fiction film they will be profiting from the production company they built with the crowd funding money for years to come now do I believe they should be allowed to make there movie or web cast show how ever you want to say it yes but under different rules then normal production like how you pay for sampling rights in music I think they should open up options for more advanced filming by allowing them to pay a much smaller royalty fee and develop a standard that everyone can follow now and in the future for such fan fiction shows comics and otherwise obviously everyone at Axanar is making salaries and pay that help develop jobs and for some people fun stories to just ignore the fact that someone else owns the rights to this stuff is wrong so I hope they can somehow find a happy medium where everyone wins no matter how you look at it if you owned Star Trek would you be happy with someone else profiting from your hard work and yes I get CBS isn't Gene Roddenberry but it still counts as ownership to be told that you don't have the rights to your property because fans say it's wrong what there doing is redicoulus how could they do this to the fans it's easy to understand but the reality is there would be no works to enjoy if it wasn't profitable movies tv books and comics I personally love all that stuff and don't want to jeopardize a future of media due to socialist communist views that believe we should share everything equally were not at that point yet in the future where robots can do everything for us and we can just sit around and be slothful enjoying or future built on capitalism of the past so while we're still forced to be hardworking I don't want to be told by anyone that I have to give away what's mine for free it's always easier giving away someone else's stuff

 

[Wayde Robson]

Just wanted to point out a few issues with this commentary (factual aspects, not opinion aspects):

* These guidelines do not conclude the Axanar lawsuit. That is still ongoing, although John Van Citters (VP of product development at CBS) has reiterated that court-mandated settlement talks continue.

Did the article say anything is concluded?

Certainly the question as to whether CBS/Paramount will quietly drop the lawsuit is concluded.

 

[Tao1]

Well CBS seems to be within their normal rights to try and shut down Axanar, since Axanar (and other fan fiction) fails pretty much every "test" for fair use

.
On the other hand they did not exercise those rights on other projects, and have a precedent set that should allow Axanar to continue.

I think it is clear that Axanar won't make a profit, but CBS can challenge that. Also CBS could buy out Axanar, but aren't obligated to do so, and can simply get it shut it down. It comes down to whether Axanar would undermine their current goals and projects.

As far as I know, under copyright law, you can shut down a project if it has an impact upon the market for the original piece of work. In the case of Axanar, the scope of the project has become fairly large. Axanar itself may not impact the Star Trek market in a negative way (other than being true to the Roddenberry vision of Star Trek, and not the Star Warsian vision), however it opens up the door for fan made original stories to get in the way of future material made by CBS.

Keep in mind that the Axanar story itself has copyright protection for the creators of Axanar. This copyright is not for the existing characters/planets/settings, but the plot itself and any new characters/settings/ships/etc. If fan made content becomes prolific, then CBS will be forced to be wary of producing what would otherwise be original 'stories' which may end up being similar to fan made projects, and thus infringing on the copyright of other people. For example: If CBS wishes to do an episode or movie about the war with the Klingons, they will have to study Axanar (and other fan fiction) in order to not infringe upon these other copyrighted pieces of work. The last thing anyone wants is to be wary of copyright claims for what is otherwise their creation and body of work.

I am on Axanar's side, however CBS needs to draw a line in the sand. Unfortunately it is hard to do so without shutting down Axanar (or some other future project), or otherwise buying it out.

 

[mhdaniels31]

I wonder how Axanar Production would feel since there all about startrek and the fans if CBS said we'll let you make your movie but we'll own all the copyrights and any profits made plus decide whats a fair salary and any sets and production companies garnered from the project after production and release if Axanar would still be so willing to make there movie for the fans or had been willing to start production at all at that point its not like they asked CBS for permission and negotiated royalties payments this is over 1 million dollar production this is far from say college student style low budget fan flick or a kid with a camcorder Axanar basically stole startrek from CBS and thought that they could pass it off as a fan film. I think this designates tricking the fans since its crowd funded as well as the owners (CBS) and then trying to manipulate the fan base by calling the owner of startrek the bad guy for getting mad at somebody steeling there property the real sad part is I doubt this will be the last guy to scam people through crowd funding and your all fools if you didnt believe this man didnt know what he was doing. What about all the fans stolen money now there going to get to 15min episodes from Axanar if that because at this point I dont think CBS will even allow this film to be made under any circumstances as a warning to others now the real issue everyone should be talking about is the production company and why does this guy get to keep it with all the fans stolen money from crowd funding he has now set himself up with a working company that gains profits under another name while funding it with all the stolen crowdfunded money its not like we can force him to use it to pay everyone back first with interest