Can you hear a difference in Sound between Audio Amplifiers?

Do Amplifiers Sound Different?

  • Yes

    Votes: 103 60.2%
  • No

    Votes: 52 30.4%
  • crikets crickets....What?

    Votes: 16 9.4%

  • Total voters
    171
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Hi to every one... I am new to this forum and I want to expert suggestion to purchase an excellent power amplifier for watching movies and listening music. Presently in my Home Theater I am using DenonX4200W AVR 125 Watts power output and B&W 600 series 5.1.2 Setup with atmos, my HT room is acoustically treated. I am not convinced the sound quality of my AVR and want to use it as pre pro. Please suggest the excellent sound quality power amplifier in between Parasound A51, Rotel RMB 1585 and NAD M-27. Thanks
It's more about added output capability by adding external amplification rather than basic SQ. I'd get rid of the B&W 600 series speakers personally as IMO they're a bigger impediment to your goals.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Hi to every one... I am new to this forum and I want to expert suggestion to purchase an excellent power amplifier for watching movies and listening music. Presently in my Home Theater I am using DenonX4200W AVR 125 Watts power output and B&W 600 series 5.1.2 Setup with atmos, my HT room is acoustically treated. I am not convinced the sound quality of my AVR and want to use it as pre pro. Please suggest the excellent sound quality power amplifier in between Parasound A51, Rotel RMB 1585 and NAD M-27. Thanks
If you want better sound get better speakers. Not sure which year your 600 series are, but I haven't seen any of them that wasn't hot in the upper powerband that translated into exaggerated bass and vocals. Where are you located?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi to every one... I am new to this forum and I want to expert suggestion to purchase an excellent power amplifier for watching movies and listening music. Presently in my Home Theater I am using DenonX4200W AVR 125 Watts power output and B&W 600 series 5.1.2 Setup with atmos, my HT room is acoustically treated. I am not convinced the sound quality of my AVR and want to use it as pre pro. Please suggest the excellent sound quality power amplifier in between Parasound A51, Rotel RMB 1585 and NAD M-27. Thanks
Without know which 600 series speakers, home dimensions, sitting distance, desired spl etc., please do us a favor first by using the calculator linked below and tell us the results. Then I am sure we can recommend something in a more meaningful way. Otherwise, all I can say is, get as much power as you can afford. In that sense, look to Crown XLS 1502, Monolith, Outlaw and Emotiva XPA power amps. It may not improve sound quality for you, but won't make it worse for sure.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
At the 50 page point, I find it most interesting that 40% say No (assuming the 10% "cricket crowd" are in that camp. If not, then just 30%, which is still just as interesting) vs 60% Yes.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
At the 50 page point, I find it most interesting that 40% say No (assuming the 10% "cricket crowd" are in that camp. If not, then just 30%, which is still just as interesting) vs 60% Yes.
I said this before but would like to repeat, that the way the question was asked, unqualified, 100% should have voted yes. No idea why it is only 60%.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hi to every one... I am new to this forum and I want to expert suggestion to purchase an excellent power amplifier for watching movies and listening music. Presently in my Home Theater I am using DenonX4200W AVR 125 Watts power output and B&W 600 series 5.1.2 Setup with atmos, my HT room is acoustically treated. I am not convinced the sound quality of my AVR and want to use it as pre pro. Please suggest the excellent sound quality power amplifier in between Parasound A51, Rotel RMB 1585 and NAD M-27. Thanks
The X4200 is not the culprit.

The culprit is usually the speakers, subwoofer, and Room Acoustics.

What is unconvincing about the sound?

Bass? Clarity?
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
IMHO..
Amplifiers can/will sound differently..:confused:
But this is dependent upon what brand/model loudspeakers are connected and how hard the amplifier is being driven. Since a loudspeaker load to the amplifier is more than just resistance except Maganplanars. This inductive, reactive loads the amplifier's output stage in a unique way and depending upon its cost, type of protection circuitry be it current-limiting, thermal, low-impedance can cause to the amplifier to output audible byproducts...

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
IMHO..
Amplifiers can/will sound differently..:confused:
But this is dependent upon what brand/model loudspeakers are connected and how hard the amplifier is being driven. Since a loudspeaker load to the amplifier is more than just resistance except Maganplanars. This inductive, reactive loads the amplifier's output stage in a unique way and depending upon its cost, type of protection circuitry be it current-limiting, thermal, low-impedance can cause to the amplifier to output audible byproducts...

Just my $0.02... ;)
Just so I understand, are you saying that two amplifiers driving the same loudspeaker will sound identical?
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Just so I understand, are you saying that two amplifiers driving the same loudspeaker will sound identical?
No..
What I had said or meant to say.. :)
That each loudspeaker loads the amplifier's output stage in a certain way.. Its this unique load which then the amplifier must handle...
And this load by the loudspeaker will challenge the amplifier to deliver its output in certain ways.. For example, if the loudspeaker load is a low impedance such as <3 ohms the protection circuitry can start to decrease the available power supply rail voltage this can limit the amplifier's dynamic power capability. The objective of an amplifier's protection circuitry is to protect the output stage devices from self-destructing.. And this effect is likely to be audible..

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
At the 50 page point, I find it most interesting that 40% say No (assuming the 10% "cricket crowd" are in that camp. If not, then just 30%, which is still just as interesting) vs 60% Yes.
I find that Wilson quote ironic and moronic considering he sells extremely expensive speakers with the poorest frequency response curves out there.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
No..
What I had said or meant to say.. :)
That each loudspeaker loads the amplifier's output stage in a certain way.. Its this unique load which then the amplifier must handle...
And this load by the loudspeaker will challenge the amplifier to deliver its output in certain ways.. For example, if the loudspeaker load is a low impedance such as <3 ohms the protection circuitry can start to decrease the available power supply rail voltage this can limit the amplifier's dynamic power capability. The objective of an amplifier's protection circuitry is to protect the output stage devices from self-destructing.. And this effect is likely to be audible..

Just my $0.02... ;)
I would say that if the two amps were equally capable of driving the same load then the amps would sound the same while still within their power envelope.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
The answer is that there is no one culture, there are many sub-cultures. After you've been here a while you'll begin to understand where certain people are coming from. One strong undercurrent of thought some people advocate is that you can't objectively compare how different products sound without blinded tests, and some people insist that double-blinded tests are required for ensuring the integrity of the testing process. Others believe single-blind tests are sufficient for some tests, while others question the efficacy of comparison testing of audio equipment altogether. For example, the person who started the poll, Gene, is not one of the people making all of these double-blind arguments, as you can see if you read the thread carefully.

It can take a thick skin to post on this site, depending on your personality. A lot of people may disagree with you regardless of what position you take, and often when they don't agree it gets into a right-or-wrong discussion. We often joke about some topics that bring out this behavior, like cables sounding different, the usefulness of passive bi-amping, or the ever popular DACs can sound different or amplifiers can sound different topics. If you want to have one of these discussions, just be prepared for a colorful thread, or at least get ready to have your judgment impugned. ;)

If I may offer one caution and associated piece of advice, there are some very technically capable people who post on this site. There are electrical engineers, speaker designers, people trained in hard sciences, speaker and component manufacturers... it's a very interesting crowd. You should feel free to speak your mind, but when you want to talk about how something works, or make assumptions about how something should be designed, or you just want to assert that A is better or worse than B, it is good to have some technical depth of knowledge behind you, or you can find yourself tripping over your own posts.
I was reading through this old thread, just out of idle curiosity for I what I said years ago. This point still contains good advice, IMO. I also noticed that we have lost some members from back then who made cogent contributions. I miss the banter with them.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I can tell a difference within two hours of switching from one to another if they are essentially in the same league, so to speak. But then my "user break-in" kicks in and I forget either what it was, or if it's that important. Truth is, I get carried away with the actual listening to the music and whatever amp I have, as long as it's capable to start with, the differences fade and I fall into like with it and adjust it to suit me. Of course, than my mood may change from one day to the next, as I shift from something more eclectic to full on power ballads and then it ends up being up to my speakers, yet again.
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
I find that Wilson quote ironic and moronic considering he sells extremely expensive speakers with the poorest frequency response curves out there.
Two points for finding something completely unrelated to the post's actual content to bitch about.

The quote references Wilson's experience and professional career as a recording engineer. I have no idea how that relates to an audio product he sells ... especially when the only reference to products is to a component. I don't know of anyone who considers loudspeakers (like, say turntables or interconnects) to be components. It does reflect Wilson's opinion that audio gear should be listened to, so quite clearly it displays his position on the OP's post. Which is at least more on topic than your pointless jibe.

As for Wilson loudspeakers having "the poorest frequency response out there", or that the quote is "moronic", well ... search out "hyperbole".
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
No..
What I had said or meant to say.. :)
That each loudspeaker loads the amplifier's output stage in a certain way.. Its this unique load which then the amplifier must handle...
And this load by the loudspeaker will challenge the amplifier to deliver its output in certain ways.. For example, if the loudspeaker load is a low impedance such as <3 ohms the protection circuitry can start to decrease the available power supply rail voltage this can limit the amplifier's dynamic power capability. The objective of an amplifier's protection circuitry is to protect the output stage devices from self-destructing.. And this effect is likely to be audible..

Just my $0.02... ;)
Okay, I understand that part of it. But you didn't answer my question (since I specified that the loudspeakers are the same for both amps) but I will clarify ... if the loudspeaker load was benign, and within both amps comfortable capabilities to deliver to that load, do you support the position that the two amps would always sound the same?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
...if it's that important...

...I get carried away with the actual listening to the music...
How dare you? :D

Naturally, whether all amps sound significantly different is salient.

And how dare you yet again for actually enjoying your music, instead of listening to whether all amps sound different. :D
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Don't be offended but IMO, I doubt any of those amps isn't going to sound any worse or better than the Denon with those speakers. Why do you feel you need more power than that AVR-X4200W? It should be fine for most rooms. Is your room very large and you like very loud movies? Is the Denon getting hot?
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Okay, I understand that part of it. But you didn't answer my question (since I specified that the loudspeakers are the same for both amps) but I will clarify ... if the loudspeaker load was benign, and within both amps comfortable capabilities to deliver to that load, do you support the position that the two amps would always sound the same?
Not true...
The sonic performance output of an amplifier is How well the amplifier's output stage matches the demands put on it by the loudspeaker load. The biggest component variable in the signal chain is the loudspeaker..
This depends on the electrical design of the loudspeaker, choice of drivers, driver materials and x-over design.

For example, 1 loudspeaker like a Klipsch RF7 (8 ohms, 100 dB sensitivity) is EZ to drive due to its high sensitivity, higher impedance and horn tweeter. But take a Revel product such as the Salon 2 (4 ohms, 86 dB sensitivity) with its inverted dome tweeter, its complex x-over puts heavier demands on the amplifier's output stage and power supply.

If an amplifier is driving the Klipsch loudspeaker its power demands are much easier to handle than the Revel so quite likely fewer negative audio byproducts will be audible... Therefore the load and driver & x-over specs of the loudspeaker on the amplifier's output stage is what separates the sonic performance from 1 amplifier to another. The easier the loudspeaker load is to the amplifier is, the more similar the sound of between the comparable set up amplifiers will be. When a loudspeaker/load is too complex for the amplifier to handle this is when this is when significant negative byproducts become audible. Thats why when in investing significant $ into an elaborate audio, it is pertinent to confirm the amplifier is capable of driving the target loudspeaker.

Note that when selecting an amplifier, crucial specs such as its topology, headroom, slew rate, IM distortion, power supply reserve are very important.. To dig into these deeper, we should start another thread.

Just my $0.02.. ;)
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Two points for finding something completely unrelated to the post's actual content to bitch about.

The quote references Wilson's experience and professional career as a recording engineer. I have no idea how that relates to an audio product he sells ... especially when the only reference to products is to a component. I don't know of anyone who considers loudspeakers (like, say turntables or interconnects) to be components. It does reflect Wilson's opinion that audio gear should be listened to, so quite clearly it displays his position on the OP's post. Which is at least more on topic than your pointless jibe.

As for Wilson loudspeakers having "the poorest frequency response out there", or that the quote is "moronic", well ... search out "hyperbole".
Ok getting right to the point.. Wilson speakers are wayyyyyyy over priced for what they produce in sound. So if Wilson puts out tripe like this, why should any one take him seriously about being subjectively qualified to pick something out that sounds good to my ears? The term subjective is just this, subjective. No one hears or interprets music like I do nor can I interpret or hear like you or anyone else. So what makes him think that others are qualified to do so? That comes across as shear arrogance, nothing more.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I would say that if the two amps were equally capable of driving the same load then the amps would sound the same while still within their power envelope.
Julian Hirsch lives !!!!!!!!!!
 

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