Call me a sceptic, but...

H

Harrison20

Enthusiast
I have yet to see a review that says "these speakers, components, etc. suck" are the reviewers paid to review the products or scared to say that something doesn't live up to the price? Where could I go to find unbiased reviews, free of conflicts of interest.
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
Just use a little logic here please....


Do see any Bose reviews?

No...now why do think that is?

It's because their products are dog excrement compared to what is generally reviewed here and they know it. They will never provide their products for review because they know the review would say as much.

Now extend that logic to anyone who knows their product is sub par or would not test well...why would they provide a test product just to receive negative press?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I have yet to see a review that says "these speakers, components, etc. suck" are the reviewers paid to review the products or scared to say that something doesn't live up to the price? Where could I go to find unbiased reviews, free of conflicts of interest.
Stereophile has pretty good measurements but that is where it ends;)

Unfortunately The Audio Critic is mostly history. So is $ensible Sound.
But try our AH editorial reviews.:D
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I have yet to see a review that says "these speakers, components, etc. suck" are the reviewers paid to review the products or scared to say that something doesn't live up to the price? Where could I go to find unbiased reviews, free of conflicts of interest.
You can't get away from that. Everyone is biased to a certain degree, as much as some people try not to be. The closest you can get to unbiased is measurements. Stereophile is very good in this respect as well as some of the Audioholics reviews, especially their subwoofer reviews. What I would do if I were you is figure out what sound you like in respect to how that measures, and than use measurements to find the speaker you want.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Heh. Yeah, I hear ya. I feel the same way sometimes. Which is why I went the route of just listening to as much stuff as I can with my own ears, making my own judgements, and not worrying about it ;)

Truth be told, there aren't a ton of products these days that are truly awful entirely. The majority of products have at least a few redeeming qualities, or you can see how maybe they're not for you, but someone else might like 'em. I think it's fair for any reviewer to try and make out the audience at which a given product is targeted. And to not go overboard with personal dislike and just say, "it sucks!" if there are still some strengths, which most products do have.

But you've gotta keep in mind that extremely few review sites outright purchase every product they review. The vast majority rely on getting review samples from manufacturers, or maybe retailers on rare occasions.

And that is certainly not ideal. When a reviewer is well aware that if they give a negative review, they'll probably never receive products from that company ever again, it certainly brings into question just how honest the reviewer can really be! You throw advertising on top of that, and it destroys all credibility.

The thing is, as readers, we can't really change this status quo. The only thing we could do would be to pay subscription fees that are high enough that the review site could afford to purchase all the products they review, and no longer be at the mercy of the marketing departments of manufacturers. And since I brought it up, that's what reviews are: marketing. Don't ever think they're something else. Both the review site and the manufacturers are here to make money. And it's a symbiotic relationship, which further erodes the notion that reviews exist to serve the customers.

So since the reviews aren't going to change, we, as readers, have to learn how to make the reviews useful to us. Typically, there are one or two lines in the review, drastically understated, pointing out a "teeny tiny" weakness in the product. Well THAT'S the review. What sounds like a teeny tiny weakness, it's not so teeny tiny in real life. The reviewer had to say it that way or else the manufacturer would never send them another product to review. Hell, a reviewer can say nothing but praise and the manufacturers still won't be happy. They're only happy if they're given a perfect score and the review says that there are no other competing products because it's so good.

There's a handful of sane manufacturers. Ones that will actually take criticism and work to get better. Or who appreciate an honest review that says how the product will really appeal to some people, but not others. But most of the publicity department people are insane.

My whole approach has been to listen for myself, form my own opinions, and then use my own experience as a frame of reference so that I can compare and contrast my own thoughts with the written reviews. That way, I can spot which reviewers are honest, which ones are out to lunch, which ones understate things, and which ones overstate things. It sucks that you basically have to know things for yourself ahead of time. I consider most reviews, and the recommendations of people on forums to be somewhat useless to folks who really don't have any experience. They can't possibly know who to listen to. And everyone SEEMS like they know what they're talking about. But it's all just about having a frame of reference. You learn to trust certain people, ignore others, and somewhat listen to some people, but always take their words with a grain of salt.

It's just like the rest of life, really :) It's good to be a skeptic. But in the end, the only way forward is to try things out for yourself, build a library of knowledge and experience, and then use that to help you weed through the endless ocean of opinions and marketing.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I have never based my decision on any of the reviews but I do get influenced by the measurements, to a point. Even then I would be very careful comparing measured results from different labs for the obvious reasons. I mainly go with what I heard and compared that (unfortunately have to rely on the not so reliable "memory") to what I thought I heard from live performances.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
There are unbiased articles/bloggers/reviews, but, they're not in your face, dazzle you with the hyperbole pieces. One just has to squint past the spotlight and look for the honest folk.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
The reviews on this site are generally pretty good. They are generally not going to really slam a product for the reasons previously mentioned. Just keep in mind that a score of 3.5 or less out of 5 is really poor.
Also read the reviews carefully. A loudspeaker review might mention some "bloom" in the bass in a very casual manner. This is about as far as a writer will go to tell you there is a problem (without pissing off the manufacturer).
The measurements are usually very good, and generally consistent for comparison purposes.

But to keep things in perspective, have you heard some gear that you believe we should know sucks?

The other problem is most all reviewers have access to gear we peon Audioholics can only dream of. If they start talking about a budget item being pathetic, it gets into a question of are they indirectly bragging on their reference equipment or did the product truly under-perform for its price bracket?

Read enough reviews and you will get better at discriminating between fact and hyperbole.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Negative reviews generally don't get published - it's not that they aren't written or that all reviews are "made positive"
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The reviews on this site are generally pretty good. They are generally not going to really slam a product for the reasons previously mentioned. Just keep in mind that a score of 3.5 or less out of 5 is really poor.
Also read the reviews carefully. A loudspeaker review might mention some "bloom" in the bass in a very casual manner. This is about as far as a writer will go to tell you there is a problem (without pissing off the manufacturer).
The measurements are usually very good, and generally consistent for comparison purposes.

But to keep things in perspective, have you heard some gear that you believe we should know sucks?

The other problem is most all reviewers have access to gear we peon Audioholics can only dream of. If they start talking about a budget item being pathetic, it gets into a question of are they indirectly bragging on their reference equipment or did the product truly under-perform for its price bracket?

Read enough reviews and you will get better at discriminating between fact and hyperbole.
I agree with what you are saying, but even then you are dealing with subjective opinions except for the measurement parts. One other thing, I wonder if even the most objective reviewers would not be influenced by the measurements. There should be a requirement that someone else does the measurements, such as Stereophile, and the reviewer only gets to see the results after he/she has written his/her reviews and is not allowed to make any changes after.:D Oh, they also should not be allowed to read other's reviews (reading ban..) prior and I am sure you know why I say that..(hint: think Sony AVRs, B&W diamonds, P36X etc.). Anyway I know all of these are not always practical and we live in a practical world.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I've spoken to any number of reviewers, and the general consensus is that they try not to get product in that sucks to begin with. Most major manufacturers, Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, 10 billion speaker makers, etc. tend to produce product that is, at the very least, decent.

Once you work with product some, and troll the forums at places, you can start to get a feel for what product is good, and what product is weaker.

But, this is often the case with these types of products... none are bad, and most have strengths and weaknesses. But, a speaker that sounds a fair bit worse than another speaker may also cost 1/10th the price. So, it may sound great for the money. So, does it suck, or does it sound great? Do you want to read a review based entirely on sound without actually including build quality or price in the mix? Is that fair?

At some level, obviously it is fair to desregard all other considerations and simply review based upon what you hear and/or see. But, then one reviewer should do all the reviews so the playing field is the same across all products - this is exceedingly difficult to do.

But, one universal truth remains in that most websites and magazines do NOT post or review products that are of poor quality. Those products simply are ignored. Yes, I agree, I would like to see more reviews of those weaker products so that people understand the weaknesses with them and know what to look for in a lower quality product.

Still, I have some decent stuff in my setup, but it has weaknesses that I do agree are not highlighted enough by reviewers and I wish that reviewers would spend more honest time looking at the faults that are in a product and discuss them not to show the product as being poor, but helping people understand exactly what shortcomings that product may have.
 
H

Hobbit

Senior Audioholic
I have yet to see a review that says "these speakers, components, etc. suck" are the reviewers paid to review the products or scared to say that something doesn't live up to the price? Where could I go to find unbiased reviews, free of conflicts of interest.
Let's be real, in today's world of modern technology and manufacturing so many of the parts are going to be identical between devices. Just about everything in that box being reviewed is an off the shelf part. The quality has also gotten pretty darn good all around. So, you have the decoding and adc/dac chip-sets etc which you get from a handful of manufacturers and you have discrete components which are relatively inexpensive and off the shelf. Furthermore, there's no rocket science involved with the designs. Most amps and preamp drivers have very similar circuit design.

I recall a Car and Driver reviewer saying that in the 70's if the car broke down a mile from picking it up they would fix it and still give it a good review. That wasn't unexpected back then. Then he went on to say that IF that happened today he would leave the car where it broke down and give it a bad review. We forget how far we've come.

So, I don't expect any review to say something sucks. Especially if you consider what you're paying for it and what it's being compared to in the price range. I don't rate a 5 star restaurants the way I rate a greasy spoon, yet I may give them both 5/5 review. They're both fine in their own way.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...I don't rate a 5 star restaurants the way I rate a greasy spoon, yet I may give them both 5/5 review. They're both fine in their own way.
You mean there are 1 through 5 stars even for a greasy spoon joint? ;):D
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top