Bookshelf Speakers - Input Requested!

P

Patoons

Enthusiast
I just purchased an Onkyo recevier (HT-RC360) and am now looking for some bookself speakers.

There are NUMEROUS threads on this board on bookshelf speakers. I spent most of the evenings this weekend reading through them and they've all been pretty helpful.

I've narrowed my selection down to 4:
- Polk RTi A1
- Cambridge S30
- PSB Alpha B1s
- Paradigm Atoms

However, I've recently been told that the Polk and Cambridge aren't in the same league as the other two. I was originally leaning towards the S30's, though I was going to listen to all four again before making the final purchase.

You guys all know your stuff, so does anyone have any perspective on how these compare and what one may excel at over others/be deficient at?

Any insight is greatly appreciated.

ETA: Music is my focus; I'll use these as fronts on the TV, but don't really care as much about that. Music is my primary care if that influences any feedback.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I reviewed the RTiA-3 and felt it was a decent speaker, something that I don't think Polk has done in the price range in years. I haven't heard the current Atoms, but if you aren't at least looking at the Studios, I personally wouldn't go Paradigm.

I honestly would also audition the Infinity Primus line as well as the Behringer 2030p, as they are less costly and will likely give you something else to think about since they are overachievers for the price.

If you've already heard the S-30s and like them, then that's what I would go with. Whoever said the S-30s aren't up to the task is mistaken. They may be thinking about Cambridge Soundworks, which is an entirely different company. Cambridge Audio is well respected.

With music as your focus, no offense, but I'd say you should start saving for a new receiver also.
 
P

Patoons

Enthusiast
With music as your focus, no offense, but I'd say you should start saving for a new receiver also.
None taken.

I know it's the wrong forum, but what would you suggest as options or where to look at options?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I have owned Polk Rti, Atom, Alpha and Primus speakers - I much prefer
the Cambridge Audio S30 over them.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
None taken.

I know it's the wrong forum, but what would you suggest as options or where to look at options?
That depends on price range, but if you don't mind refurb (comes with a full 1yr warranty like a new one does) you can find Marantz, Denon and Onkyo (look for something like the 6xx or 7xx series) that will help out in the power department at Accessories for Less. Being refurb, they can be had for a lot less than new and you can consider slightly older models that are higher up the food chain. I've bought receivers from them in the past and had nothing but good experience with them:

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!
 
R

ridikas

Banned
You would be crazy not to look at these:

Epos Epic 1 $600pr.
Epos Epic 2 $800pr.

At least in my opinion, they completely destroy what's on your list.
 
P

Patoons

Enthusiast
You would be crazy not to look at these:

Epos Epic 1 $600pr.
Epos Epic 2 $800pr.

At least in my opinion, they completely destroy what's on your list.
These are almost double/triple the price of everything on my list, though, depending on which. That's more than I have in my budget at the current time.

They'll definitely go on my list to listen to, though, and maybe to purchase down the road.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I just purchased an Onkyo recevier (HT-RC360)
Any chance of getting anything else? I'd recommend looking into a Marantz SR5006 or even a stereo receiver like a Harman Kardon 3490 or Outlaw 2150.

ETA: Music is my focus; I'll use these as fronts on the TV, but don't really care as much about that. Music is my primary care if that influences any feedback.
I would get a pair of Philharmonitor 1 speakers!!! (not listed on the website, but available via special order)

philharmonicaudio.com

ANyways what is your budget? Why exactly are you dead-set on bookshelf speakers?
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
You would be crazy not to look at these:

Epos Epic 1 $600pr.
Epos Epic 2 $800pr.

At least in my opinion, they completely destroy what's on your list.
Double the price of his list and of course it better be a better speaker, especially considering that there are likely a LOT of speakers at that price that would potentially be better :rolleyes: If I were looking at Epos right now, it would be the ELS-8 (replacement of the well known ELS-3) on the budget end of things, not the Epics. You can get a pair of ELS-8s for around $320. note too that the Epics are 4 Ohms and somewhat lower sensitivity, so they aren't going to do well with a mid-level receiver. The ELS-8 has low sensitivity but are 6 Ohm.

My RTiA-3 thoughts (wow from '07): http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/38870-quick-impressions-polk-rti-a3.html
 
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psbfan9

psbfan9

Audioholic Samurai
I own a pair of the Alpha B1's and really like them. I'm biased, but that would be my choice. The B1's are a great bang for your buck speaker. You should be able to get a pair, used, for $150 - 199.00. Call or email Saturday Audio and ask them about B-Stock Alpha B1's.
I have heard good things about the S30's, but have never heard them.

Saturday Audio
 
P

Patoons

Enthusiast
Any chance of getting anything else? I'd recommend looking into a Marantz SR5006 or even a stereo receiver like a Harman Kardon 3490 or Outlaw 2150.

I would get a pair of Philharmonitor 1 speakers!!! (not listed on the website, but available via special order)

philharmonicaudio.com

ANyways what is your budget? Why exactly are you dead-set on bookshelf speakers?
I'm likely going to see about getting a stereo receiver and exchange out my Onkyo AVR. My issue is that I have a credit to a regional electronics store here in NY and am limited in what I can get since they're stock isn't great. I'm going to take a look again later this week at another branch of their's where I'm hearing they have more stereo receivers.

My budget for speakers is max $350 (which is around where the listed speakers in the OP go for). The lower the better, but don't want to skimp out on these if it's going to make a difference.

I'm going for bookshelf because of space reasons in the room and b/c my wife would go bananas with tower speakers. My 1 year old would also probably try to tackle them.
 
P

Patoons

Enthusiast
Any chance of getting anything else? I'd recommend looking into a Marantz SR5006 or even a stereo receiver like a Harman Kardon 3490 or Outlaw 2150.
Can you help me out here?

I just compared the Marantz you suggested to what I purchased (Onkyo HT-RC360). The Marantz clearly has more input options, however, looking at the specs, it doesn't seem that different:

- comparable power 100w (8 ohms, 20-20)
- THD same
- S-to-N 106 vs. 98
- Marantz is a little heavier (25.6 vs. 24.7)

Am I missing something that makes these vastly different?

I'm planning on looking at other stereo receivers based on exchanges I've had with Garcia and his explanation on why it'll make more sense for me and my music focus, but in the comparison of the AVR I purchased and the Marantz, I'm not finding a difference on the specs (save the input ability).

I'm sure I'm missing something, I just don't know what it is.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
It isn't so easy to tell just from the specs, you sort of have to give a receiver a listen. 100w isn't always 100w, because how these two deliver them in the real world may be very different, but the easiest way to tell if their rating is honest is to listen to them. With some demanding music and a typical speaker, it will be pretty obvious when you crank them up which one is doing its job or not.

In this case, the 5006 is likely closer to this Onkyo in terms of power, but each manufacturer has a signature "sound". There's a lot more circuitry than just the amps that influence the sound when it comes to a multichannel receiver; something that a stereo receiver would have considerably less of and an integrated amp has none of. There's a reason why I have owned so many Marantz receivers over the years and still do. They sound great with music. It is kind of a hard thing to describe, but I think their corporate motto kind of says it simply: Because music matters :)

Interesting that the website says 98dB, but the product literature for the 5006 says 100dB. 100dB is what I would expect. Note too that the 5006 is also Marantz's lowest model of multichannel receiver (excluding the new NR "low profile" models)
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Can you help me out here?

I just compared the Marantz you suggested to what I purchased (Onkyo HT-RC360). The Marantz clearly has more input options, however, looking at the specs, it doesn't seem that different:

- comparable power 100w (8 ohms, 20-20)
- THD same
- S-to-N 106 vs. 98
- Marantz is a little heavier (25.6 vs. 24.7)

Am I missing something that makes these vastly different?

I'm planning on looking at other stereo receivers based on exchanges I've had with Garcia and his explanation on why it'll make more sense for me and my music focus, but in the comparison of the AVR I purchased and the Marantz, I'm not finding a difference on the specs (save the input ability).

I'm sure I'm missing something, I just don't know what it is.
My initial reaction to the model number was the same as GranteedEV; I figured it to be a lower end receiver, but looking at the specs on Onkyo's site yesterday, it has nearly identical specs to the NR609. I'd have to say that Onkyo will probably be fine for a small system, especially with bookshelf speakers. Having said that, something like the H/K 3490 will likely give you more real world oomph, and possibly the Onkyo 8255 will as well.

Another thing to note is that most stereo receivers lack is the ability to handle a sub properly - they have a sub pre-out, but most do not have any kind of internal crossover, meaning you will have to blend a sub with the mains manually. The exception to the rule is the Outlaw Audio RR-2150.

My Integrated amp is rated at just 95W X 2, but it handled my 4 Ohm A/V-2 speakers fine in a large room and has no problem filling an even larger room with my A/V-1s now.

One more tidbit: 100W is the "magic number" that manufacturer's shoot for on the lower models, because they know that if they don't get that spec to say 100W, they won't sell.
 
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P

Patoons

Enthusiast
My initial reaction to the model number was the same as GranteedEV; I figured it to be a lower end receiver, but looking at the specs on Onkyo's site yesterday, it has nearly identical specs to the NR609. I'd have to say that Onkyo will probably be fine for a small system, especially with bookshelf speakers. Having said that, something like the H/K 3490 will likely give you more real world oomph, and possibly the Onkyo 8255 will as well.

One more tidbit: 100W is the "magic number" that manufacturer's shoot for on the lower models, because they know that if they don't get that spec to say 100W, they won't sell.
I was actually looking at the Onkyo 8255 and the 8555 (just discontinued last week), but I can easily swap out my current one for the 8555.

Onkyo TX-8555 - High Fidelity Stereo Receiver | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products

This appears to be the way to go from all you guys have enlightened me on (assuming when I go to listen to it I'm happy with how it compares).

Am I on the right path here?

ETA: Marantz is going to be my next test down the road when I have a little more to spend. Sounds like a great option, so I appreciate that suggestion.
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I noticed they discontinued the 8555, but that's the one I'd go for over the 8255.
 
Stutz320

Stutz320

Junior Audioholic
Patoons
I just compared the Marantz you suggested to what I purchased (Onkyo HT-RC360).
The Marantz clearly has more input options, however, looking at the specs, it doesn't
seem that different:

- comparable power 100w (8 ohms, 20-20)
- THD same
- S-to-N 106 vs. 98
- Marantz is a little heavier (25.6 vs. 24.7)

Am I missing something that makes these vastly different?



One thing I look for is the receiver or amps rating at 8 ohm and at 4 ohm.
The good stuff will have 2x the power at 4 ohm.
Pioneer's little A-35R integrated amp goes from 45 at 8 ohm to 65 at 4 ohm - very close to 1.5x
Many receivers struggle to gain 25%.
 
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N

natetg57

Audiophyte
How about Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE. $300/pair. Excellent reviews. I'm sure they are much better for music than lower end Paradigms.
 
P

Patoons

Enthusiast
Listened to the Paradigm Atoms and Cambridge S-30s (and also the S-20s).

Came away more impressed with the Atoms over the S-30s, though it's about a $200 difference/pair. Still kicking it around on which to go with, but liked them both overall.

The Polk's are definitely out for me and I need to hear the PSB's one more time before deciding.
 
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