Bi Wiring and Amplification

S

smitty78

Audioholic Intern
I have a few questions I wanted to ask:

I've been reading up on bi wiring speakers in floorstanding speakers and using seperate amplifiers to run them. It seems to be mixed opinions on doing this. What are your thoughts on this? Would it require bi amping? I just wanted to hear how some of you more experienced enthusiast set up your systems.

I want to be able to run a 5.1 setup later on but at the moment I am focusing on getting some nice floorstanders for my music. If I decide on a speaker, would you reccomend getting a mid priced receiver and getting a 150-200 wpc amp to run the floorstanders or just get a higher end receiver with say a 120 watt per channel 7.1 receiver? If I used a seperate amp couldn't I just use that for the mains and use the receiver itself to power the center and surrounds?

My only concern is premature wearing of the receiver for carrying too much load, my initial thinking was the amp would take the load off the receiver and give me more power overall when I decide to configure if for HT use.
 
njedpx3

njedpx3

Audioholic General
My thoughts - get an AVR with pre-outs

Remember Power is logrithmic.

What kind of speakers are you getting? Specifically look at the sensitivity (efficiency) and the nominal impedance. Low senstivity speakers (80dB) require a lot more power than normal (90dB) or high efficiency (100dB) speakers. Also remember most ratings are for 8 ohms, 4 ohms requires twice the power. Some high end speakers are 4 ohms and average sensitivity and like lots and lots of power :cool:

Get an AVR that at least has pre-outs. A good power rating is 90 watts per channel or better. If that is not enough via pre-out you can always add an
external amp such as a Berhinger 2500EP to power the fronts ( normally center and surrounds have lower power requirements and most subs are powered).

Concerning bi-amping, I don't do it but if you want to give up 7.1 for 5.1 and you can separate your speakers you can power mids with one set of outputs and the tweeters with another set. You won't necessarily recreate the sound as it was originally intended and the tweeter( high) load is norammly not that much. Biwiring is similar except you connect two outputs to the same terminals; you need to be certain your AVR can handle this! Again caution and remember that the total power of a AVR is a finite amount; if you need more headroom because of the speaker impedance, senstivity or you preference for louder sound IMHO the best choice by far is an external amp.

I mentioned at first that power is logithmic, going from 100 watts to 200 watts only gives you a 3 dB increase in sound. Going from 100 watts to 140watts is only a 15% increase, maybe if you have good ears you can hear it.

The Behringer 2500EP adds 450 watts per channel (8 ohms) for 2 channels and is only $284 from B & H Photo.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/280617-REG/Behringer_EP2500_EP2500_2_Channel_Rackmount.html


If you want more power that just 2 channels Emotiva makes a very good 5 channel amp, XPA-5 (retail $799) at 200 watts per channel or get several 2500EPs.


Good luck!
 
mr-ben

mr-ben

Audioholic
I've been reading up on bi wiring speakers in floorstanding speakers and using seperate amplifiers to run them. It seems to be mixed opinions on doing this. What are your thoughts on this? Would it require bi amping? I just wanted to hear how some of you more experienced enthusiast set up your systems.
Don't worry about biamping. Basics first.

I want to be able to run a 5.1 setup later on but at the moment I am focusing on getting some nice floorstanders for my music. If I decide on a speaker, would you reccomend getting a mid priced receiver and getting a 150-200 wpc amp to run the floorstanders or just get a higher end receiver with say a 120 watt per channel 7.1 receiver? If I used a seperate amp couldn't I just use that for the mains and use the receiver itself to power the center and surrounds?

My only concern is premature wearing of the receiver for carrying too much load, my initial thinking was the amp would take the load off the receiver and give me more power overall when I decide to configure if for HT use.
Get the cheaper receiver, and a better amp. This puts more of your money where it counts for music: in the 2 main speakers. Don't worry about wearing out the receiver - it will be fine.
 
S

smitty78

Audioholic Intern
Thanks guys, I think I'll go with a receiver with preouts. I initially was eyeing the Denon 2310 ci, but I realize that they don't have any preouts from what I've seen. I may not need an external amp right now, but I want to have the option of being able to upgrade later on in the future.

Does anybody have any suggestions for a 5.1 receiver with multiple decoding capabilities and upscaling features for under $1500? Under $1000 would be preferred but I don't want to skimp on the central hub unit either. I prefer the slightly "warmer" sounding units like Denon, Harman/Kardon, etc.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I have a few questions I wanted to ask:

I've been reading up on bi wiring speakers in floorstanding speakers and using seperate amplifiers to run them. It seems to be mixed opinions on doing this. What are your thoughts on this? Would it require bi amping? I just wanted to hear how some of you more experienced enthusiast set up your systems.

I want to be able to run a 5.1 setup later on but at the moment I am focusing on getting some nice floorstanders for my music. If I decide on a speaker, would you reccomend getting a mid priced receiver and getting a 150-200 wpc amp to run the floorstanders or just get a higher end receiver with say a 120 watt per channel 7.1 receiver? If I used a seperate amp couldn't I just use that for the mains and use the receiver itself to power the center and surrounds?

My only concern is premature wearing of the receiver for carrying too much load, my initial thinking was the amp would take the load off the receiver and give me more power overall when I decide to configure if for HT use.
I copied and pasted this from another thread about bi-amping (my reply to the OP in that thread)-

If channels of equal power are used, only a little more headroom and a little output will result in a home audio system but when a large-venue PA is being designed, the power levels they use dictates that separate amps be used for each frequency range since any passive crossover will have at least 3dB of insertion loss and when a system is already in the 50KW range, not only will they need to use twice as much power (Mo' money, mo' money, mo'money!) losing half of the power to insertion loss and the heat generated in the passive crossover means that if a component fails, serious sound issues will result. With passive crossovers, if the crossover fails, they can replace it in the rack and not have to send a rigger up the array to pull it out of the speaker cabinet in the middle of a concert.

If you're using all of the receiver's power to achieve normal listening levels, you either need more sensitive speakers or more power. Either way, your ears will eventually peel off and fall on the floor.
 
S

smitty78

Audioholic Intern
If you're using all of the receiver's power to achieve normal listening levels, you either need more sensitive speakers or more power. Either way, your ears will eventually peel off and fall on the floor.
So you're basically saying that an external amp is a waste of time and money for everyday listening? hmmm...

Like I stated before, my main concern was burning up the receiver. You make an excellent point, though.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
So you're basically saying that an external amp is a waste of time and money for everyday listening? hmmm...

Like I stated before, my main concern was burning up the receiver. You make an excellent point, though.
Just like a motor from a funny car is useless for a daily driver. OK, maybe that's not a fair comparison.

If the one being used is defective, sounds bad or is really puny, a more powerful amp will make a difference. If the receiver is old and nothing special (like the Fischer in my workshop), using a separate power amp can really bring it to life (like the equally old Sony TA-3200F I hooked up to test it). If the receiver is much newer and the power is adequate for listening at levels in the -25dB to -10dB range, it should really be fine. Doubling the power only adds 3dB, which is noticeable but not a tremendous difference.

As far as burning the receiver up- if you notice that it's incredibly hot after a short time, it would benefit from more/better ventilation. If that doesn't help. it may be biased too high or the speakers' impedance may be on the low side for that model.
 
Last edited:
mr-ben

mr-ben

Audioholic
So you're basically saying that an external amp is a waste of time and money for everyday listening? hmmm...
There's more to an amplifier than the power output. A 50 watt per channel stand-alone amplifier can sound better than a 100 watt per channel receiver. An external amp is worth the time and money if it improves the sound quality enough for you to justify the cost.

[if someone argues that all amps sound the same, I'm going to ignore them]
 
njedpx3

njedpx3

Audioholic General
So you're basically saying that an external amp is a waste of time and money for everyday listening? hmmm...

Like I stated before, my main concern was burning up the receiver. You make an excellent point, though.
If you have the need, then a amplifier is great and serves the purpose. Some speakers because of low senstivity (such as 80dB) and/or low niminal impedance (4 ohms) require a lot of power. And in some cases the listener likes loud sounds or has a large room.

If you turn up your current receiver all the way or close to it and it still doesn't sound loud enough or seems muddled ( clipped ) or dull then you are a prime candidate for an external amp.

However, if you like the sound with your volume set mid-way then you would be wasting your money on an external amp.
 
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