Bi-amping RF-7 II's

[Rippyman]

Has anyone Bi-Amped their RF-7 II's? If so, how were the results?

I'm considering the Emotiva XPA-5 and Bi-Amping my two fronts and using the 5th channel to power my center.

 

[DenPureSound]

Has anyone Bi-Amped their RF-7 II's? If so, how were the results?

I'm considering the Emotiva XPA-5 and Bi-Amping my two fronts and using the 5th channel to power my center.

I would definately get the EMO XPA-5, we LOVE ours.

Why is the question? Most all have stated it is a waste of time and money!

What is wrong with just running them off of one amp for each RF-7II?

Those Klipsch RF-7II's are so darn efficient at 101dB your not going to gain much if anything if you Bi-Amp them, but go and try it out if you have the extra cable/connectors.

But yes, get an External AMP for sure!! EMO just had the XPA-5 on Sale for $769, now that is a Steal. Wait for their next Sale, or ask them for a "B Stock" item w/ full warranty for less $$.

 

[Rippyman]

I would definately get the EMO XPA-5, we LOVE ours.

Why is the question? Most all have stated it is a waste of time and money!

What is wrong with just running them off of one amp for each RF-7II?

Those Klipsch RF-7II's are so darn efficient at 101dB your not going to gain much if anything if you Bi-Amp them, but go and try it out if you have the extra cable/connectors.

But yes, get an External AMP for sure!!

Because the RF-7 II's have the ability to bi-amp them, why would they offer this option if it didn't improve the sound?

See dual posts on the back.

 

[j_garcia]

They offer the option because other manufacturers do too.

 

[DenPureSound]

Because the RF-7 II's have the ability to bi-amp them, why would they offer this option if it didn't improve the sound?

See dual posts on the back.

Many Mfg's. have Bi-amp 5-way posts on rr. of speaker like my new Def. Tech. BP7001SC's as well, but go for it, and try it, some like it but most have said it does not make a huge difference. Like I said if you have the extra cbl./connectors try it, and you will see that way.

But far the largest improvement will be an EXT. AMP if you are driving them off an AVR by itself with it's much smaller amps internally. This you will feel the difference immediately, if you go w/ an Ext. amp vs. the AVR, been there, done that, and it makes a HUGE difference.

I highly recommend the XPA-5 for sure, super amp. and w/ your RF-7II's it will ROCKET to new heights for sure!!

 

[j_garcia]

You will feel the improvement immediately only if your current setup isn't cutting it in terms of power. If it isn't struggling to give you the levels you are after right now, then an amp isn't going to improve anything.

 

[TLS Guy]

Because the RF-7 II's have the ability to bi-amp them, why would they offer this option if it didn't improve the sound?

See dual posts on the back.

We get asked this question again and again. People get the idea that biamping will improve sound. They also think it will double the power available to the speaker, usually this is not the case and definitely not for yours.

The power divide is around 400 Hz. So you would need speakers that had one set of terminals going to a woofer, that crossed over at around 400 Hz, and then the other set of terminals would need to go to a mid range tweeter section above 400 Hz.

Your speakers a re 2.5 way. The top terminals just go to the tweeter via a high pass passive filter and the lower ones to the woofers via low pass passive filters. The crossover will be somewhere between 2 and 2.8 k Hz. There us very little power in that range and those horn tweeters are highly efficient. So you would add about a watt of power and be wasting an amp channel.

Also what you would be doing is passive biamping, and the ill effects of the passive crossovers are unchanged.

To really benefit from biamping you need active electronic crossovers ahead of the power amplifiers, with the drivers directly connected to the amps.

In your case I do not think you will notice any difference if you buy an external amp, as the Klipsch speakers are highly sensitive and efficient.

If you are unsatisfied with your sound, your money would be much better spent upgrading speakers.

 

[agarwalro]

+1 what TLS Guy said.

The befit is questionable at best. In effect, what you are doing is called bi-wiring and it will look like the following diagram from, Section 1.13 of this article.

 

[Rippyman]

+1 what TLS Guy said.

The befit is questionable at best. In effect, what you are doing is called bi-wiring and it will look like the following diagram from, Section 1.13 of this article.

If I'm running a separate power supply to the tweeter & a separate power supply to the woofers, isn't that bi-amping???

That diagram is wrong no? I'm confused, haha.

 

[j_garcia]

That diagram looks like biwiring, not biamping, but the portion inside of the speaker is likely close. What people are trying to say is having all that power may not have much benefit vs just running directly off a single channel of adequate power, since it is effectively the same crossover.

 

[TLS Guy]

If I'm running a separate power supply to the tweeter & a separate power supply to the woofers, isn't that bi-amping???

That diagram is wrong no?

It is only wrong in an insignificant way. The diagram is for a three way speaker and your are 2.5 ways.

In your case one amp would supply two low pass filters in parallel one going to the lower woofer, the other to the upper woofer. These drivers would take 99% of the power at least.

The other amp would go to a high pass filter which would only connect to the tweeter and draw insignificant power from that amp compared to the one supplying the woofers.

So you will be indulging on a total waste of time.

This is much more similar to what your situation would look like, except there would be two low pass filters in parallel going to the two woofers.

So one amp would go the highs in and supply very little power.

The other amp would go to lows in and supply almost all the power, and you gain nothing.

 

[Rippyman]

So bi-amping is a waste, but would I benefit from a separate amp then?

A two-channel?

Right now all that is powering them is my SR7005 which still seems to sound ridiculous but some of my audio friends are telling me that an external amp will make them really come alive?

 

[TLS Guy]

So bi-amping is a waste, but would I benefit from a separate amp then?

A two-channel?

Right now all that is powering them is my SR7005 which still seems to sound ridiculous but some of my audio friends are telling me that an external amp will make them really come alive?

With your speakers I don't think you will gain anything.

You have affordable speakers designed to work with receivers.

Speakers like those if you gave them more power would be very loud and suffer severe thermal compression. At the price of those speakers, they will not have high powered drivers. Building speaker drive units that can cleanly handle a lot of power is a complex and expensive proposition.

 

[Rippyman]

With your speakers I don't think you will gain anything.

You have affordable speakers designed to work with receivers.

Speakers like those if you gave them more power would be very loud and suffer severe thermal compression. At the price of those speakers, they will not have high powered drivers. Building speaker drive units that can cleanly handle a lot of power is a complex and expensive proposition.

Their specs seem to say they can handle a lot of power, is this just marketing nonsense?

SPECIFICATIONS

BUILT FROM: 2010
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 1200Hz
DEPTH: 16.3" (41.5cm) with grille
ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass-reflex via dual rear-firing ports
FINISHES: Black Ash , Medium Cherry furniture grade wood veneer
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 30Hz-24KHz ± 3dB
HEIGHT: 48.5" (123.3cm) with feet
HIGH FREQUENCY DRIVER: 1.75" (4.45cm) Titanium diaphragm compression driver
HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: 8" square 90° x 60° Tractrix® Horn
INPUTS: Dual binding posts / bi-wire / bi-amp
LOW FREQUENCY DRIVER: Two 10" (25.4cm) Cerametallic cone woofers
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms compatible
POWER HANDLING: 250W RMS / 1000W Peak
SENSITIVITY: 101dB @ 2.83V / 1m
WEIGHT: 87.1lbs (39.5kg)
WIDTH: 11.6" (29.5cm)

 

[j_garcia]

Just because they can handle that kind of power doesn't mean you need to feed them that much to achieve sound levels that are more than adequate. With a sensitivity like that, you really don't need a ton of power to get reference levels even in a large room. No doubt, a ton of power is a good thing , but there is such a thing as overkill. What a more powerful amp ultimately lets you do is turn it up louder without distortion. At normal listening levels your speakers may be using as little as 4-5w, but during the peaks, like explosions and busy musical passages, that's when you need that power. To put it another way, having more power means that those peaks are handled with the speakers turned up to a higher level, so if you are looking for louder, that's what you'll achieve with an amp. It is an entirely different story if you were powering them with something that could NOT handle the levels that you were looking for. THEN, you would likely notice an immediate improvement.

 

[TLS Guy]

Their specs seem to say they can handle a lot of power, is this just marketing nonsense?

SPECIFICATIONS

BUILT FROM: 2010
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 1200Hz
DEPTH: 16.3" (41.5cm) with grille
ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass-reflex via dual rear-firing ports
FINISHES: Black Ash , Medium Cherry furniture grade wood veneer
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 30Hz-24KHz ± 3dB
HEIGHT: 48.5" (123.3cm) with feet
HIGH FREQUENCY DRIVER: 1.75" (4.45cm) Titanium diaphragm compression driver
HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: 8" square 90° x 60° Tractrix® Horn
INPUTS: Dual binding posts / bi-wire / bi-amp
LOW FREQUENCY DRIVER: Two 10" (25.4cm) Cerametallic cone woofers
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms compatible
POWER HANDLING: 250W RMS / 1000W Peak
SENSITIVITY: 101dB @ 2.83V / 1m
WEIGHT: 87.1lbs (39.5kg)
WIDTH: 11.6" (29.5cm)

I don't think I would like to give them 250 watts all that long. I think there would be burn out.

However the point is you would not need to. Those speakers have a sensitivity of 101 db.

Now most speakers have a sensitivity of 88 to 90 db. So say your speakers were driven form a 100 watt per channel amp. Then speakers of 91 db sensitivity of would require an amp, and be able to handle an amp, of 1000 watts per channel to play as loud as yours.

Or to put it another way, your speakers would play as loud with a 10 watt per channel amp as speakers of 91 db sensitivity would play with a 100 watt per channel amp.

So 100 watts per channel is more than adequate for your speakers.

So actually your speakers would do just fine with a 10 watt per channel amp.

 

[zieglj01]

In your 16 x15 room, with 2 subwoofers set up - your receiver
will more than handle those speakers - putting more power to
them will add to the electric bill - however, very little benefit
to the speakers. Be kind to your ears.

 

[zumbo]

What I would do.

Keep current configuration for HT.

Add a tube amp for 2-channel music use.

This would give you the noticeable difference you are looking for.

 

[lsiberian]

With your speakers I don't think you will gain anything.

You have affordable speakers designed to work with receivers.

Speakers like those if you gave them more power would be very loud and suffer severe thermal compression. At the price of those speakers, they will not have high powered drivers. Building speaker drive units that can cleanly handle a lot of power is a complex and expensive proposition.

Klipsch drivers can typically handle high power pretty well. This is the Reference series from a company that does professional theater sound. The engineering cost for high power drivers has likely been recouped.

I agree that additional power is unnecessary because they are super efficient, but I have no doubt they can handle what they state. That said passive bi-amping is a huge waste of money and time. The reference series is built to fill large home theater rooms. It's not JTR, but it still packs some volume.

 

[agarwalro]

If I'm running a separate power supply to the tweeter & a separate power supply to the woofers, isn't that bi-amping???

That diagram is wrong no? I'm confused, haha.

To get any befit from adding more amp without going to a 100% active crossover setup, (at minimum) you need to remove (from the electrical circuit, not physically) part of the passive crossover inside the speaker and end up with something like this, (pic from same article for which was link was given in my previous post)

Simply adding more amp channels without changing the passive crossover typology is equivalent to increasing the current amp specs (equal to 2x XPA-5 channels) without removing the binging post short. Therefore, equivalent to the diagram I linked earlier.

Sorry about the confusing response. In the interest of being concise and quick, I lost efficacy.