Beginner needing help with MiniDSP and REW

[Code_Red]

Hi, I finally pulled the trigger on a 2.1 system.

Front towers are Arendal 1961
Subwoofer is the RSL speedwoofer 12s
Receiver is a Marantz NR1710s
Amp is an OSD Nero XA3200


I have read a bunch of threads on the forums and watched YouTube and still feel like I'm doing something wrong.


I received and hooked up the OSD amp yesterday along with the MiniDSP 2x4 HD. I started to run some REW and I feel like I have something connected wrong or a setting is off. I spent about 4 hours all together hooking everything up and trying to run some measurements. Most of the youtube videos are at least 2 years old, so the interfaces don't match which is making me have to go through trial and error.

I will try to outline what I have here without being too confusing.

My Marantz receiver > I have my speakers set to "large" and subwoofer set to "no". With these settings, it takes away the option to select anything with Audyssey or crossover etc.

Connections:
Marantz pre out L&R > MiniDSP input 1 and input 2
MiniDSP Output 1 > Amp 1 > left front speaker
MiniDSP Output 2 > Amp 2 > Right front speaker
MiniDSP Output 3 > Subwoofer

I assume I have a setting wrong, because when I play anything from my Apple TV 4k through the receiver, my towers and subwoofers sound great and have full range so I believe the sound is passing through the MiniDSP and Amp without issue.

The issue I'm having is when I go into the MiniDSP user interface, it shows Output 1highlighted and output 2 highlighted similar to the attached photo (not mine, just a screen grab from online.) It doesn't show anything for output 3, but I was able to click on Input 1 and Input 2 to "turn them on"

A Pink noise sweep from the front L or R generates a curve that I would expect. However, when I do a pink noise sweep from 20 - 200, with the sound generator set to L+R the sub has almost no output until above 80hz. I also get an error message from REW that the measurement distortion is too high (12.3%) and that the level may be too high. Now, the RSL Speedwoofer has settings on the back for HPF and LPF. In this setup where do I put those? do I set them to bypass?


Also, here is how I understood my process should go. Am I incorrect?

1. run a full speaker calibration range.
   1. set output to L, run a pink noise generator and increase my amp volume until I hit 75spl.
   2. do the same with output on R
2. set the range from 20-200hZ and then do the same with output L+R for the subwoofer.
3. Now that ive done this I have essentially set the levels on my speakers to match.
4. Next start to run individual reading across the seating positions for L, then the same for R
   1. make adjustments in REW to help flatten the curve.

this is where I am confused. Do I do this with the subwoofer on or not? I guess my confusion is which speakers do I select to do this with or how do I adjust the subwoofer after I have done this to the fronts? After reading and watching videos for 4 hours yesterday I just threw in the towel.

Any help is very appreciated.

thanks,
Cody

 

[lovinthehd]

Why would you set speakers to large and subwoofer to no? Or this is just for measurement? Did you try using Audyssey as a comparison to the more convoluted setup?

 

[lovinthehd]

Rather than youtube you might use the forum that REW uses most, AVNirvana...

 

[OCA]

Hi, I finally pulled the trigger on a 2.1 system.

Front towers are Arendal 1961
Subwoofer is the RSL speedwoofer 12s
Receiver is a Marantz NR1710s
Amp is an OSD Nero XA3200


I have read a bunch of threads on the forums and watched YouTube and still feel like I'm doing something wrong.


I received and hooked up the OSD amp yesterday along with the MiniDSP 2x4 HD. I started to run some REW and I feel like I have something connected wrong or a setting is off. I spent about 4 hours all together hooking everything up and trying to run some measurements. Most of the youtube videos are at least 2 years old, so the interfaces don't match which is making me have to go through trial and error.

I will try to outline what I have here without being too confusing.

My Marantz receiver > I have my speakers set to "large" and subwoofer set to "no". With these settings, it takes away the option to select anything with Audyssey or crossover etc.

Connections:
Marantz pre out L&R > MiniDSP input 1 and input 2
MiniDSP Output 1 > Amp 1 > left front speaker
MiniDSP Output 2 > Amp 2 > Right front speaker
MiniDSP Output 3 > Subwoofer

I assume I have a setting wrong, because when I play anything from my Apple TV 4k through the receiver, my towers and subwoofers sound great and have full range so I believe the sound is passing through the MiniDSP and Amp without issue.

The issue I'm having is when I go into the MiniDSP user interface, it shows Output 1highlighted and output 2 highlighted similar to the attached photo (not mine, just a screen grab from online.) It doesn't show anything for output 3, but I was able to click on Input 1 and Input 2 to "turn them on"

View attachment 65611

A Pink noise sweep from the front L or R generates a curve that I would expect. However, when I do a pink noise sweep from 20 - 200, with the sound generator set to L+R the sub has almost no output until above 80hz. I also get an error message from REW that the measurement distortion is too high (12.3%) and that the level may be too high. Now, the RSL Speedwoofer has settings on the back for HPF and LPF. In this setup where do I put those? do I set them to bypass?


Also, here is how I understood my process should go. Am I incorrect?

1. run a full speaker calibration range.
   1. set output to L, run a pink noise generator and increase my amp volume until I hit 75spl.
   2. do the same with output on R
2. set the range from 20-200hZ and then do the same with output L+R for the subwoofer.
3. Now that ive done this I have essentially set the levels on my speakers to match.
4. Next start to run individual reading across the seating positions for L, then the same for R
   1. make adjustments in REW to help flatten the curve.

this is where I am confused. Do I do this with the subwoofer on or not? I guess my confusion is which speakers do I select to do this with or how do I adjust the subwoofer after I have done this to the fronts? After reading and watching videos for 4 hours yesterday I just threw in the towel.

Any help is very appreciated.

thanks,
Cody

Set the AVR to "pure direct" mode to properly measure your system. As long as Audyssey is on, it will intervene. In your case, it's probably cutting off the sub signal because you turned it off. Normally when speakers are set to Large, sub should be bypassed depending on your LFE setting (LFE/LFE+Main).

Here's my suggested workflow:

Time align subwoofer and both speakers at the MLP by measuring each of them separately with the same acoustic timing reference channel (ie right speaker) selected for every sweep. You can dial in the speaker distance settings you calculated either in your AVR or MiniDSP.

Determine the crossover frequency and the crossover roll off strength. Try to stay within the given bass roll off specs (-3/-6dB rbass roll off frequency) of your speakers. You can also do this in the AVR but MiniDSP is more accurate in that.

Now run sweeps with the combined response of sub+Left and sub+right sepaker and use REW's auto EQ (20Hz-200Hz range, 0dB boost) to generate filters for a target curve of your choice and export them as biquads to MiniDSP (REW has custom EQ settings for MiniDSP 2x4HD).

Optionally, you can throw in a crossover phase linearization filter for your speakers generated in rePhase (.bin format, 1024 taps) and add it to MiniDSP FIR filter.

 

[Code_Red]

Why would you set speakers to large and subwoofer to no? Or this is just for measurement? Did you try using Audyssey as a comparison to the more convoluted setup?

Audyssey was ok, but my room is very large and not well setup for acoustics, so I wanted to try doing a more thorough EQ process.

I set the speakers to large and sub to "no" because the MiniDSP 2x4 only has 2 inputs which are being used by the pre out L&R on my receiver. Without the sub out I figured I needed the full range to go through the MiniDSP and I would set crossovers based on the outputs.

 

[Code_Red]

Set the AVR to "pure direct" mode to properly measure your system. As long as Audyssey is on, it will intervene. In your case, it's probably cutting off the sub signal because you turned it off. Normally when speakers are set to Large, sub should be bypassed depending on your LFE setting (LFE/LFE+Main).

Here's my suggested workflow:

Time align subwoofer and both speakers at the MLP by measuring each of them separately with the same acoustic timing reference channel (ie right speaker) selected for every sweep. You can dial in the speaker distance settings you calculated either in your AVR or MiniDSP.

Determine the crossover frequency and the crossover roll off strength. Try to stay within the given bass roll off specs (-3/-6dB rbass roll off frequency) of your speakers. You can also do this in the AVR but MiniDSP is more accurate in that.

Now run sweeps with the combined response of sub+Left and sub+right sepaker and use REW's auto EQ (20Hz-200Hz range, 0dB boost) to generate filters for a target curve of your choice and export them as biquads to MiniDSP (REW has custom EQ settings for MiniDSP 2x4HD).

Optionally, you can throw in a crossover phase linearization filter for your speakers generated in rePhase (.bin format, 1024 taps) and add it to MiniDSP FIR filter.

Thanks for the response! Unfortunately everything you mentioned in your workflow is still about 4 levels above my comprehension. I will do my best to try and browse the REW forum to learn these terms and proper steps better. Heck, I felt accomplished when I was able to finally get pink noise coming from my receiver and not from my computer. Now to try and understand the settings for sweeps, saving curves, and anything about filters or how to translate from REW to the MiniDSP. I like the challenge of this and learning something new, but I didn't expect to feel as incompetent as I do with this ha.

However, as I have it, Audyssey has been off. My LFE setting is set to LFE, not LFE+Main.

Even with my current setup (Speakers Large, sub off, LFE) my system will play full range and the sub sounds great. It was only when I tried setting the REW from 10 - 200Hz did the sub not produce any sound. Possibly pure direct was my setting that was incorrect. I will be sure to try it.

 

[Code_Red]

I figured I would put this here as it shows what I tried to explain above.

This is how I have my system setup. The preamp being my Marantz receiver and the amp being my OSD amp.

 

[OCA]

Thanks for the response! Unfortunately everything you mentioned in your workflow is still about 4 levels above my comprehension. I will do my best to try and browse the REW forum to learn these terms and proper steps better. Heck, I felt accomplished when I was able to finally get pink noise coming from my receiver and not from my computer. Now to try and understand the settings for sweeps, saving curves, and anything about filters or how to translate from REW to the MiniDSP. I like the challenge of this and learning something new, but I didn't expect to feel as incompetent as I do with this ha.

However, as I have it, Audyssey has been off. My LFE setting is set to LFE, not LFE+Main.

Even with my current setup (Speakers Large, sub off, LFE) my system will play full range and the sub sounds great. It was only when I tried setting the REW from 10 - 200Hz did the sub not produce any sound. Possibly pure direct was my setting that was incorrect. I will be sure to try it.

How are you measuring the sub from REW? If you are selecting LFE channel sweep, REW will send a special LFE signal and Marantz will send it only to the sub output not to left and right speaker pre-outs. Selecting LFE+Mian might help or just select left or right speaker from REW to send a sweep. You should also check your MiniDSP routing setup:

 

[Code_Red]

Good morning all, I apologize for going radio silent on this thread, but I am having some trouble that I cant seem to figure out. I also feel that I need to take a step back to diagnose this issue before I dig back into the MiniDSP tuning.

I purchased an OSD XA3200 amp to help drive my towers (Arendal 1961 towers.) I plugged in the Mini DSP and was trying to learn to tune my system, but got Covid then the flu and springtime is a lot of travel for me with work so I haven't been able to do any tuning with the system until yesterday.

Initially when I plugged in my Marantz 1710 slim > Mini DSP > Amp I heard a faint static/buzz from the speakers. It wasn't loud enough to hear from the listening position, but could hear it when I walked by. Fast forward to yesterday I finally had some free time and decided to try and isolate this buzzing. So I removed the MiniDSP and just plugged the pre outs on the the Marantz directly into the amp. When I did, I noticed that the buzz actually got worse. If I changed the input on the receiver it would quiet down until it switched then got louder again.

I thought my Marantz could be the problem so I tried to isolate the system by turning the receiver off and leaving the amp powered on, but the slight buzz was still there.

The other thing to note is that I would have to turn my receiver to ~70 if I wanted music "loud," nothing crazy, but a good loudness for jamming on a Friday or Saturday. After I got the Amp I figured it would be a lot louder and it is not. I actually dont think there is any noticeable difference. I still use the same sound levels from the receiver.

I did some reading and some say the buzz or static could be coming from a ground fault issue, but I am not sure where to even start.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

I’ll take this part:

After I got the Amp I figured it would be a lot louder and it is not. I actually dont think there is any noticeable difference.

All that means is that the input sensitivity for both amplifiers is the same (i.e. both amps “gets running” with the same signal level from the preamp).

Assuming one amp is more powerful than the other, you’ll only be able to tell a difference on the “top end:” When the weaker amp starts showing signs of distress (compression, perhaps clipping or even shut-down), the more powerful amp will keep going and play clean at a higher volume.

This assumes the more powerful amp is at least double the power of the weaker (say, 100 watts to 200 watts). But even at that, it may only mean the bigger amp can play 2-3 dB louder than the other. Noticeable, but not a huge difference. If there is only a marginal difference between the two (say, 100 watts to 135 watts), the improvement will only be 1 dB or less, which probably won’t be heard with program material.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Code_Red]

I’ll take this part:



All that means is that the input sensitivity for both amplifiers is the same (i.e. both amps “gets running” with the same signal level from the preamp).

Assuming one amp is more powerful than the other, you’ll only be able to tell a difference on the “top end:” When the weaker amp starts showing signs of distress (compression, perhaps clipping or even shut-down), the more powerful amp will keep going and play clean at a higher volume.

This assumes the more powerful amp is at least double the power of the weaker (say, 100 watts to 200 watts). But even at that, it may only mean the bigger amp can play 2-3 dB louder than the other. Noticeable, but not a huge difference. If there is only a marginal difference between the two (say, 100 watts to 135 watts), the improvement will only be 1 dB or less, which probably won’t be heard with program material.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Thanks a bunch for the response.

Per the recommendation from some reading on the forum, I am going to try and diagnose the electrical circuit grounding to see if thats causing the issue.

for the system
My speakers are Arendal 1961 towers which are 87dB sensitive and 4ohm
My receiver is a Marantz 1710 slim which is 50watts per channel at 8ohm
The Amp I got is the OSD XA-3200 which is 350 watts at 4ohm

Thanks!

 

[OCA]

Plug everything (and I mean everything) in a single wall socket and the ground loop should go away.

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, you get same noise in the speakers with just the avr instead of avr and external amp?