Before and after

Discussion in 'Room Acoustics, System Layout & Setup' started by psbfan9, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

    psbfan9
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    EMP E55Ti's Towers front L/R, EMP E56Ci center, DefTech SM 450's L/R surrounds. Audio Pro Sub Evidence MKII. 5.1 configuration. Onkyo Tx-SR608 7.2 AVr with Audyssey 2EQ.

    [TABLE="class: spec-table, width: 600"]
    <tbody>[TR]
    [TD]Sub specs.: SUB EVICDENCE MKIIType: Powered subwoofer with bult-in ace-bass®
    amplifi er, bass refl ex
    Amplifi er: 150 W rms
    Woofer: 8” long-throw
    Frequency adjustment: 27-100 Hz
    Lo-pass fi lter: 50-100 Hz, variable 24 dB/octave
    Hi-pass fi lter: 100 Hz, 6 dB/octave


    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    </tbody>[/TABLE]

    E55Ti Tower specs.: Impedance: 6 Ohms •
    Frequency Response: 40Hz-20kHz ±3dB
    • Crossover Frequencies: 120 Hz / 3,000 Hz
    • Sensitivity: 88dB (2.83V@1m)

    E56Ci Center specs.:Frequency Response: 50Hz-20kHz ±3dB
    • Crossover Frequency: 600 Hz, 3,000 Hz
    • Sensitivity: 87dB (2.83V@1m)

    DefTech Studio Monitor specs.:
    [TABLE="class: spec-table, width: 600"]
    <tbody>[TR="class: alt, bgcolor: #F1F1F1"]
    [TD="class: subhead, colspan: 2"]Maximum Sensitivity[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: push"]Satellites[/TD]
    [TD]90 dB[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: alt, bgcolor: #F1F1F1"]
    [TD="class: subhead, colspan: 2"]Total Frequency Response[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: push"]Satellites[/TD]
    [TD]24 Hz - 30 kHz [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: alt, bgcolor: #F1F1F1"]
    [TD="class: subhead, colspan: 2"]Nominal Impedance[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: push"]Satellites[/TD]
    [TD]8 ohm[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: alt, bgcolor: #F1F1F1"]
    [TD="class: subhead, colspan: 2"]Crossover[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: push"]A/V Receiver Crossover Setting[/TD]
    [TD]50hz




    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    </tbody>[/TABLE]
    My previous settings were; Center and Surround speakers set to 80hz, Front L/R set to 'Full Band'.

    Distance; L/R/C 15'0. L/R Surrounds 2'0. Sub 15'0. Sub's level was turned all the way up.

    The sound was good at first, then, I got bored. So tonight, I thought I would run Audyssey and compare settings and sound.

    I was surprised with the following Audyssey settings.

    Front L/R/C set to 40hz, Surrounds set to 50hz.
    Distance; L/R stayed at 15'.0. Center was set to 14.'0. And surrounds were set to 6'.0
    Before running Audyssey, I turned the sub level down to about the 10pm position. The sub was set at 26'.0

    Should I give these new settings a chance or should I go back to L/R at 'full band' and everything else at 80hz?


    Thanks.

    Barry
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2014
  2. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    Sounds about right to me, the new settings. I remember reading in a few different places that the bass response on the e55ti's wasn't as good as you would expect with three woofers, not to say that it's bad. I would give the audyssey settings a chance. Plus it is also setting the delay when it sets the distances, which is something most people forget about. Audyssey isn't setting the absolute distance, it is also adjusting the distance for the delay as well, or at least that was my understanding.

    Also see if you notice a difference between Audyssey movie and music. Music is supposed to be flat, and movie runs certain frequencies a little hot to make it more "exciting".
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  3. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

    psbfan9
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    Okay, thanks Fuzz. I'll do some listening today and see if any adjustments need to be made.
  4. panteragstk Audioholic Chief

    panteragstk
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    Audyssey did the same to my mains that are rated down to 40hz. Everything worked fine with the speakers on 40hz, but it seemed to cut off the low end more than it should have. Once I set things back to full band it sounded right in 2ch mode. I still prefer direct for music listening though. I've played around with the double bass setting to get my subs into the mix when listening to music and liked the results. Granted there weren't that many songs that actually NEEDED the lower frequency handling of the subs, but the ones that did benefited greatly. The only thing about that double bass setting was that it makes certain TV shows boomy. Kind of annoying.
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  5. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

    psbfan9
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    Thanks! I appreciate the help. After listening today, I changed the fronts back to 'Full Band' and turned on double bass.
  6. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    The only thing you have to be careful with when using double bass full band is volume level. If you're watching movies and try to push it too high you could bottom out the drivers on your towers.
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  7. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

    psbfan9
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    Ok.
    In the manual, it says, "You can feed bass sounds from the L/R/C to the subwoofer". To me, and I'm not that bright, it would relieve stress on the other speakers and they would not bottom out. You're saying it's the opposite?

    When I used Audyssey settings in the past while listening to music in stereo the sub would shut off. I have it set on 'automatic'. I'm not a bass head, but the extra bass with the sub was pleasant.
    So, is it just a matter of turning the double bass off or should I set the L/R back to 40hz?

    Thanks for the help!
  8. lsiberian Audioholic Overlord

    lsiberian
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    I don't advise running your mains below 80hz if you have a capable sub. Your sub will give you cleaner sound at 80hz than your speakers. The number of woofers capable below 100hz is actually not very high. So if you can get up even higher then it might be better. Of course typically multiple subs are needed to go up that high.

    You want to cut off your drivers well before they hit their limits to maximize clean SPL. Of course if you listen at normal level this isn't normally an issue.
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  9. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    It's not reliving stress on the front towers since they're still trying to reproduce the full band, that would be what crossing them over would do. The double bass setting sends the front towers the full band signal, but still sends a signal to the subwoofer as if they were being crossed over. This means that if you push the volume too loud, the woofers on your towers will try to reproduce all those low frequency rumbles and if they have enough power behind them, they could bottom out. However, that's really only a concern if you're pushing reference levels.

    I believe double bass only works if the towers are set to "large" or "full band". You can leave it as is if you like how it sounds, you just have to be aware of it in case you try to play something like the Super 8 train crash scene at 0.0 :D
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  10. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

    psbfan9
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    My wife down loaded a SPL meter to her phone. I don't know how to use it...:eek:

    Do I need to isolate each speaker to get a proper level reading? If so, how do I isolate each speaker?, Do I use the test tones in the speaker configuration on the avr, do I use tv/movie or music? Do I put the meter in directly in front of each speaker or sit in my listening position and hold the meter ear high?

    Thanks.

    Barry
  11. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

    psbfan9
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    According to the meter my front L/R & surround speaker levels were at 90db. The front L/R were set in the receiver at 0. I had to turn them down as far as I could, -12 in the receiver, and the meter was bouncing between 78 and 80 db. I was using 75db as the point to set all my speakers. The other odd thing, the sub was set at +3db and only registered 65 db. I had to turn the sub up to +6 to get 75db.

    I have the volume set to 'absolute' and usually listen at a setting of 48 to 58. now, I'm at 65.

    Can these readings be right? Did I do something wrong? I used test tones in the calibration set up in the receiver.

    Barry
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  12. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    So you're using the phone as your SPL meter with the phone's mic? That doesn't sound right to me at all, that your speakers would be set to 90db with the receiver test tone. Did the tones sound harsh to your ears before you lowered the levels? How loud do the levels sound now?
  13. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

    psbfan9
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    Yes, using the phones mic. The app had like 30,000 5 star ratings. Yep, 90db. I was shocked as well. the test tones sound harsh to begin with, but I always lower the volume before I run them. It actually doesn't/didn't sound bad.
    I ended up going back to the original settings. Tomorrow I'm going to get a SPL meter from RS and see what readings I get.

    But..
    My question is, If I can set the levels in the AVR, why do I need a meter?
  14. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    Well the AVR sets +-, but they don't tell you what 75db is at the LP in your room, which is why you need the meter. Throw in external amps and weird room stuff and you can have wild variations from speaker to speaker. Is that what you were asking?
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  15. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

    psbfan9
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    Yes, that was what I was asking. I knew I was missing something.

    Thanks Fuzz!
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  16. panteragstk Audioholic Chief

    panteragstk
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    Late reply, but once I ran Audyssey I made sure that everything was ok using my trusty digital radshack SPL meter. Pretty spot on. Can't say the same for MCACC, but it was the chepest Pio available so I didn't expect it to be. Since my first post I've messed around with my settings a bit and settled on not using double bass because some things were just way too boomy. Music in stereo is nice, but everything else wasn't all that great. I played with setting my new Pioneer's to 40hz and full range and didn't notice much of a difference (I shouldn't considering their f3 of 40hz) but on my old speakers it made a big difference. I did move my sub crossover from Aydyssey's 120hz reccomendation to 80hz just because my front 3 are all capable of going down to 40hz. The surrounds are all crossed at 150hz. I think everything is good now. Sounds good to me at least.

    What settings did you end up with?
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  17. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

    psbfan9
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    This week, the L/R/C are at 60. I figured my sub is built to handle the lows, and may do a better job so for now, I'll let my sub handle the lows. Seems good...So far.
    The surrounds are set at 80.

    Still trying to talk myself into spending the $50.00 on a SPL meter.
  18. fokakis1 Audioholic Intern

    fokakis1
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    Those x over settings look good based on your gear. Get the spl meter to calibrate your levels at the main listening position. It has a high bandwidth and will give you accurate levels. If your master volume is adjustable during level cal on your avr then set your front left speaker level to 0db, then adjust your avr's master volume untill you read 75 dB on the meter. Use this as the reference to set the rest of your speaker levels. If your volume control is fixed then do it the way it was suggested earlier.
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