B&W sold to a Silicon Valley start up company

[slipperybidness]

Uh oh...

You do realize social law dictates you finish that story..?

It is not my story to tell........but at least it wasn't ADTG's $ on the line.

 

[Pogre]

It is not my story to tell........but at least it wasn't ADTG's $ on the line.

Understood. I appreciate that little tidbit tho! Ha ha!

Seriously tho, glad ADTG didn't have to go through it. I know what it's like to break something that's expensive to replace. I was heartbroken when I fried my amp and very grateful Monoprice was gracious enough to honor the warranty despite user error.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, just ask @AcuDefTechGuy how rigid a diamond tweeter is, and what happens when a buffoon drops one!

Is it still too soon to talk about that?

That period was over the minute I sold the 802D2.

But yeah, when they delivered my 802D2 the first time, they broke the SYNTHETIC FAKE diamond tweeter.

And I demanded a new pair of 802D2.

Then I read reports of other users complaining about their fake diamond tweeters breaking with certain volumes. It was a major reason I decided to sell the 802D2. I don't do FAGILE FAKE well.

I also read that Beryllium is not only toxic, but also brittle. And I don't do BRITTLE TOXIC well either.

 

[Pogre]

That period was over the minute I sold the 802D2.

But yeah, when they delivered my 802D2 the first time, they broke the SYNTHETIC FAKE diamond tweeter.

And I demanded a new pair of 802D2.

Then I read reports of other users complaining about breaking their fake diamond tweeters with certain volumes. It was a major reason I decided to sell the 802D2. I don't do FAGILE FAKE well.

I also read that Beryllium is not only toxic, but also brittle. And I don't do BRITTLE TOXIC well either.

By fake do you mean like cubic zirconia or something? Or do you mean synthetic, but real diamond?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

By fake do you mean like cubic zirconia or something? Or do you mean synthetic, but real diamond?

I was just playing with semantics. Synthetic = Fake.

I would not consider synthetic leather and synthetic wood as real leather and real wood.

 

[Pogre]

I would not consider synthetic leather and synthetic wood as real leather and real wood.

Me either, because they are not chemically or atomically the same at all. From what I understand synthetic diamonds are pure carbon and identical to natural, without the impurities.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Me either, because they are not chemically or atomically the same at all. From what I understand synthetic diamonds are pure carbon and identical to natural, without the impurities.

When I Googled on the hardness/toughness of synthetic diamonds, I think people usually say that these synthetic diamonds are as hard/tough as real diamonds.

But these synthetic diamonds used in the B&W tweeters seem to break a lot easier than any diamonds I've ever seen.

 

[lovinthehd]

When I Googled on the hardness/toughness of synthetic diamonds, I think people usually say that these synthetic diamonds are as hard/tough as real diamonds.

But these synthetic diamonds used in the B&W tweeters are definitely NOT very hard and tough and sure break a lot easier than any diamonds I've ever seen.

Just how thin is the diamond membrane used, tho?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just how thin is the diamond membrane used, tho?

Excellent point.

How thick is the synthetic diamond diaphragm?

What percentage of synthetic diamond is the tweeter/diaphragm?

Is it 100% synthetic diamond or 10%?

 

[TLS Guy]

Just how thin is the diamond membrane used, tho?

 

[Pogre]

Thanks doc. You just sent me down a video rabbit hole of diamond tweeters... lol.

 

[ryanosaur]

Thanks doc. You just sent me down a video rabbit hole of diamond tweeters... lol.

...An Audiophiles best friend!

I'll stick with Raal and Beryllium for the time being. Though Mark's Seas Excel Millenium dome tweeter posted above is pretty sexy looking.

FWIW, talking to one of the guys involved in Transducer Lab's work, he said the Beryllium is actually quite sturdy... and though you don't want to crumble it up, it's not as fragile as you would fear.

My understanding is the Diamond domes are much more delicate... but how would I know!

 

[slipperybidness]

Diamond tweets seem to be hard but brittle which is pretty much expected.

The little vid does say that it is formed by CVD, which means that @lovinthehd nailed it in post #65 (i.e. very similar to how Si and other metals are deposited in the semiconductor and solar power fields).

 

[lovinthehd]

Diamond tweets seem to be hard but brittle which is pretty much expected.

The little vid does say that it is formed by CVD, which means that @lovinthehd nailed it in post #65 (i.e. very similar to how Si and other metals are deposited in the semiconductor and solar power fields).

Yeah I figured that was the likely technology but still wonder just how thick they are....

 

[Patrick Butler]

Best of luck with your treatments. I have had a number of friends go through them and while all recovered, it was hard going.

I loved seeing the photos of your systems and the construction of the transmission line speakers with that looks like SEAS drivers.

Best regards,

Patrick
Bowers & Wilkins

Yes, Patrick. You are correct. You see it is DIY hobbyists in all spheres that have the passion and spread it.

I will get back to you at length, as shortly as I can, this week I hope. I'm undergoing treatment for my prostate cancer for the rest of this month, but I will still have time.

Also I'm in some delicate negotiations right now to make transmission line modelling freely available, before this important technology is set back for years or for ever. That is a priority right now.

I will focus on the state of the industry as I see it now, and where I feel it is on the wrong foot as far as making all this new technology a feasible realistic proposition in the modern home for the wider public.

 

[Patrick Butler]

Think human hair thickness. As for how thick, I don't have the spec in my office. The diamond grows on a substrate which is later dissolved. So yes, they are pure diamond. As for why we use diamond, that was driven by engineering. Pistonic operation in the HF and LF and controlled flexibility in the middle.

Regards,

Patrick
Bowers & Wilkins

Yeah I figured that was the likely technology but still wonder just how thick they are....

 

[slipperybidness]

Yeah I figured that was the likely technology but still wonder just how thick they are....

Patrick gave a reasonable thickness estimate on post #116, but I suspect that it may be even thinner than that (i.e. thinner than a human hair).

If the membrane were to be "relatively thicker" than that, then you would be looking at other techniques instead of CVD. At that point, CVD would not make sense, and you would start to lose the mechanical advantages of laying down material with that technique as the film gets thicker.

 

[highfigh]

I was just playing with semantics. Synthetic = Fake.

I would not consider synthetic leather and synthetic wood as real leather and real wood.

You purists are all alike.

I suppose you don't like synthetic oil, either.

 

[highfigh]

...An Audiophiles best friend!

I'll stick with Raal and Beryllium for the time being. Though Mark's Seas Excel Millenium dome tweeter posted above is pretty sexy looking.

FWIW, talking to one of the guys involved in Transducer Lab's work, he said the Beryllium is actually quite sturdy... and though you don't want to crumble it up, it's not as fragile as you would fear.

My understanding is the Diamond domes are much more delicate... but how would I know!

If a Beryllium part is designed properly, it's not fragile- it was used for the frame of the capsule on the Apollo rockets that went to the Moon.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You purists are all alike.

I suppose you don't like synthetic oil, either.

Well, now, who says anything about "liking" or "disliking"?

Just saying that "synthetic" is not a natural product.

Synthetic could be engineered to be better. Engineered "synthetic" oil is supposed to be better than natural oil. Engineered wood could be a lot more durable and "better" than natural wood.

Synthetic carbon/diamond? If they can make them more durable, that's great. Can they make carbon/diamond tweeters more durable so they aren't so fragile and don't easily break when someone places a speaker down too hard or if people play at louder volumes (that some other tweeters seem to do just fine) ?

But the whole allure of "diamond" is that they are natural precious gemstone.

Who wants to wear a "synthetic" diamond ring instead of a real natural high-grade diamond ring?

Which billionaire wants to have synthetic marble floors, instead of real natural marble floors for his mansion?

I bet if B&W were to put the word "SYNTHETIC" in front of the "Diamond" in their marketing, a lot less people would be interested.

"Own the B&W 800 D3 speakers featuring an extremely tiny thin 0.001-inch layer of synthetic carbon diamond atop the speaker diaphragm for only $30K. Oh, and by the way, this extremely thin layer is extremely fragile, so handle with care. Don't use FedEx or UPS or anything like that."