Axiom Audio - Comb Filter

[KiterSuperFly]

I am not interested in the weird drama with Axiom and this forum, whatever...but have been thinking about some Axiom speakers after I complete some renovations.
The Customizable wood veneer and finish choices are a big plus (WAF). And they are Canadian, with their factory in an area near and dear to me.
I was looking at the M60 towers and VP160 centre channel as the basis for a living room home theatre. Subwoofer(s) will be part of this setup.
My questions: With regard to comb filtering, the M60 has only a single tweeter and a single mid- with dual 6.5" woofers. So, is the comb filter issue mentioned with other models of this brand not a problem with this model?
The VP160 centre has the same drivers as the M60 and, importantly, the mid and tweeter are not on plane with the two bass drivers, which I understand help prevent interference between them?

 

[ryanosaur]

No.
Comb filter effects will be due to having two tweeters like some of their designs. Other things can cause it, too, but that is the aspect of that particular design choice I have seen called out routinely, and not just here.

The 2-way MTM will absolutely have horizontal dispersion lobing. That is simple physics with that design.

and, importantly, the mid and tweeter are not on plane with the two bass drivers, which I understand help prevent interference between them?

Your wording is a little confusing here. For the center channel, the two mids will interfere with each other, causing the lobing I mentioned above. It cannot have good horizontal dispersion when it is laid on its side... vertical orientation would be a different story.
What interference are you asking about?

 

[KiterSuperFly]

No.
Comb filter effects will be due to having two tweeters like some of their designs. Other things can cause it, too, but that is the aspect of that particular design choice I have seen called out routinely, and not just here.

The 2-way MTM will absolutely have horizontal dispersion lobing. That is simple physics with that design.


Your wording is a little confusing here. For the center channel, the two mids will interfere with each other, causing the lobing I mentioned above. It cannot have good horizontal dispersion when it is laid on its side... vertical orientation would be a different story.
What interference are you asking about?

OK, so for the M60 tower, one of the issues of concern with Axiom isn't a concern with this particular model as it only has one tweeter and one mid.
As for the centre, it is a tweeter over mid-, set in-between the two main drivers, both offset in plane from the main drivers, which I thought was a good thing? Having them all in the same plane was the issue that leads to lobing?

 

[KiterSuperFly]

 

[ryanosaur]

As for the centre, it is a tweeter over mid-, set in-between the two main drivers, both offset in plans from the main drivers, which I thought was a good thing? Having them all in the same plane was the issue that leads to lobing?

That's not what came up from your link.

While I can't speak to the actual performance of that design, the W-TM-W alignemnt is much preferred to the 2-way, horizontal MTM. What is pictured above (Post 4) is a more ideal design.

(For whatever reason, when I click your link to the VP160, it took me to the VP100. *shrugs )

 

[KiterSuperFly]

Link corrected. Sorry.

All right then. Still have some time to decide, but thanks for answering my questions!
As an aside, while the lack of brick and mortar stores has changed shopping, can you really tell how a speaker sounds in a store anyway!?! I really need to get over my hesitation taking up online sellers (like Axiom) on their free trial and return periods! Too Canadian I guess, it would make me feel bad to return something!

Thanks for the answers!

 

[ryanosaur]

As an aside, I just went back and looked at their other center, the VP180... I would not touch that with a 10 foot pole, even if it were free. That looks to go against any common sense design principle I've ever heard of. (Not saying that to bash Axiom... I could care less about them as a brand, but this:

...is in no way a good design.)

On the other hand... if you can get a vertical speaker either a 2-way MTM, or a matching tower, that will give you the absolute best horizontal dispersion compared to even that 3-way horizontal center. As I looked, they have the 3-way M5HP bookshelf... if they would sell you a single of those, that would be the better choice for your center. (Assuming you have space for it.)

 

[KiterSuperFly]

Aesthetics is the issue. A horizontal centre is probably what I am going to be stuck with...Not a proper 'theatre', but a living room/slightly stealthy HT.

Thanks again

 

[ryanosaur]

Link corrected. Sorry.

All right then. Still have some time to decide, but thanks for answering my questions!
As an aside, while the lack of brick and mortar stores has changed shopping, can you really tell how a speaker sounds in a store anyway!?! I really need to get over my hesitation taking up online sellers (like Axiom) on their free trial and return periods! Too Canadian I guess, it would make me feel bad to return something!

Thanks for the answers!

You won't know how it sounds in your room until it is in your room. And it will sound different if you move it to your bedroom or basement. Acoustics is a b!tch like that.

Even a well designed audition space needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I've seen people complain that they can't get their expensive B&Ws to sound as good as they did in the store... Of course, I didn't think they sounded all that good anyway.

The biggest catch with free in home trials is... who pays return freight, and is there a restock fee? This is where they get you.

If you are able to find good measurements of the Speaker, you can begin to understand how it might perform in your home. Speaker with pretty flat FR and even dispersion will be more predictable than those without.
However, that still doesn't take into account your actual room (carpet, comfy furnishings, curtains, artwork... or all concrete, glass, and steel), and your personal preferences.

 

[KiterSuperFly]

I think these have a pretty flat response (see their measurements below) and will get down low enough that I can fill in the rest with a subwoofer. Seems like a good place to start, anyway. And, again, the aesthetics are important in this plan and they are highly customizable in appearance. Concern would be if they are loud enough without distorting, which I think they will be. 60/40 music/HT.

And, yeah, I watch the fine print. Their 30-day trial seems rock solid. No restocking fees and reasonable return shipping fees posted up front. Makes them worth a try, IMHO. Frankly, I don't know if my ears are really that discerning anyway! The cost creeps up quickly with options, that will be a deciding factor. There may be other options that fit the look at a lesser cost.

 

[ErinH]

^ Looks impressive.

 

[KiterSuperFly]

That is the M60 tower.

 

[ryanosaur]

^ Looks impressive.

If I read the legend correctly, the blue line is labeled LW… listening window?
What would SP be?

 

[ErinH]

If I read the legend correctly, the blue line is labeled LW… listening window?
What would SP be?

LW = Listening Window
SP = Sound Power

Both look quite good.

 

[ryanosaur]

LW = Listening Window
SP = Sound Power

Both look quite good.

Sound Power isn’t part of the spin… what does that data tell us, please.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Have you considered other Canadian speakers' brands?
ie: PSB, Paradigm, Totem

 

[ErinH]

Sound Power isn’t part of the spin… what does that data tell us, please.

What do you mean "sound power isn't part of the SPIN"? It is. It's a weighted response of all angles. It's part of the CTA-2034 (aka: SPINORAMA).

Generally, you can ignore it for a monopole speaker because as the frequency trends toward the HF you expect it to radiate more forward, droping off in the SP response and the crossover matching there isn't necessarily as telling as it would be from something like ER (early reflections; also part of SPIN data). But in this case, the fact that SP is also smooth indicates the likelihood of very good performance. Especially in conjunction with the LW data provided.

 

[KiterSuperFly]

There is a great primer right here in this forum that explains sound power.

And, yes, I have considered the other Canadian manufacturers. All good in their own way, it will come down to finding something that fits my needs best in my budget.
PSB = Black box. A look that won't fly.
Totem styling just isn't my jam.
Paradigm is loved. Had regular use of a pair of Phantoms and some Monitors years ago, I loved both. But, to get into the models with wood veneers now is cost prohibitive. Black or white in my price range it seems...

 

[ryanosaur]

What do you mean "sound power isn't part of the SPIN"? It is. It's a weighted response of all angles. It's part of the CTA-2034 (aka: SPINORAMA).

Generally, you can ignore it for a monopole speaker because as the frequency trends toward the HF you expect it to radiate more forward, droping off in the SP response and the crossover matching there isn't necessarily as telling as it would be from something like ER (early reflections; also part of SPIN data). But in this case, the fact that SP is also smooth indicates the likelihood of very good performance. Especially in conjunction with the LW data provided.

Eek! I lost that in trying to recall everything in the spin while I was sitting in my car outside the coffee shop after my morning swim. *blushes

Thank you!

 

[Eppie]

There is a great primer right here in this forum that explains sound power.

And, yes, I have considered the other Canadian manufacturers. All good in their own way, it will come down to finding something that fits my needs best in my budget.
PSB = Black box. A look that won't fly.
Totem styling just isn't my jam.
Paradigm is loved. Had regular use of a pair of Phantoms and some Monitors years ago, I loved both. But, to get into the models with wood veneers now is cost prohibitive. Black or white in my price range it seems...

Have a look at Totem FR graphs. Forget the styling.
Too bad Paradigm discontinued the espresso finish on the Premiers. Maybe you can find some old stock? The midnight cherry on the Founders is gorgeous, but yeah, expensive. You would looking at the 40B bookshelves but paired with a sub those can sound pretty impressive too. The 70LCR is $2k though.