ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
I'm looking at either upgrading my theater room AVR and moving my 663 into the living room OR getting a cheap AVR for my living room. If I go with a cheap upgrade in my living room then I don't really need to worry about HDMI since my TV still doesn't have HDMI. I figure any old cheap receiver with 3 component inputs will do in that situation....BUT, this could be an opportunity to upgrade my theater so I'm thinking of taking it.

$599 would be the absolute max on my budget. Is there a better option than what is listed here for a pre pro in my theater room (i don't mind refurb as long as it is from an authorized reseller)?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=752346&postcount=28

Or, at this price point will I not really gain anything by upgrading and I should just stick with what I have and save my money for later down the road?

Thanks,

Chris
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
That Yamaha supports HDMI 1.3a which is fine if you aren't planning on 3D. If you need to save a few bucks (and live in the US) you could go with a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR707 $400 at Accessories For Less, the also have the TX-NR807 for $500. Both are HDMI 1.3a receivers. The refurbished TX-NR708 (HDMI1.4) is $530. I'm not sure who carries yamerhamer refurbs.
 
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ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
3d is the furthest thing from my mind. I personally think the 3d stuff isn't worth my time...besides, I need to have some kind of reason to still use the town cineplex every once in a while and if I have everything they have (like 3d) then there won't be any point. Heck, I still haven't gone to full 1080p for my theater projector yet...that's the next upgrade.
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
So, will the sound be any different from my current yammy if I get an onkyo 807?
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
So, will the sound be any different from my current yammy if I get an onkyo 807?
With all processing turned off they theoretically should sound the same. I say theoretically because I haven't played with a yammy for years. What will be different is any processing. Yamaha has their proprietary YPAO system and the 807 uses Audyssey MultiEQ. I happen to like Audyssey MultiEQ but again I've never compared it side by side with YPAO. So sound exactly the same? Possibly not, but it should sound good.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
So, will the sound be any different from my current yammy if I get an onkyo 807?
Short answer: Probably, it depends....

Long answer (my opinion only, and only if you have time):

First of all, my comments are based on using them as prepro and in pure direct mode only.

On paper both have audio specs such as THD, S/N FR that tells me in pure direct (unprocessed sound) they should sound the same to most people subject to whether the person has above average hearing and/or trained to hear the otherwise hard to detect difference; or the person is prone to Placebo effect, or both. My guess (based on people I know and things I read) is that probably most of us are affected by Placebo at least to a point. So after spending the money and seeing those heavier (here I mean power amps) and typically better looking gear hook up via more expensive cables to the speakers, the system would seem to have come alive, even in some cases, the speakers may not be that hi-fi to begin with.

In other words, our brain could become more forgiving to those same imperfections that may have nothing to do with the prepro and are still audible, but somehow got temporarily filtered out. Over time, some of us may begin to hear those imperfections again. Then some of us would begin to think may be the original lower cost gear were just as good, while others may be not think so and would be wanting to upgrade again. Yet others may continue to convince themselves the more expensive gear has got to sound better. In fact, since the the new gear have more features and more powerful sound processing, they mostly like do sound better (at least different) in the overall scheme of things. Afterall, for some of us who spend 20% or less in serious classical music listening, most of the time we could well be using sound processing in one form or another so yes even my longer answer is, yes, you should be able to hear a difference most of the time.

Given your budget, your choices seem to be limited to Onkyo, Yamaha and Marantz products because they do offer pre-outs at that price point. If you go with Onkyo, I would go with a new 708 rather than a refurbished 807. If you are sure you don't need HDMI1.4 then you can also consider the older Marantz models such as the SR7002, or even the Yamaha RX-V1900 for just a little more money ($658):

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V1900BL-7-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B001E5CDS2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1284905649&sr=1-1

In that case you will get a better quality pre amp section and gain a few watts for your surround speakers, but you may lose a few of the latest features.
 
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ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
Thanks for all the info. It doesn't seem as if any single one stands out above the other in regards to pre-pro duties (unless I am misinterpreting). I'm not worried about features, my #1 concern is giving me the best, most lifelike sound in the budget I have. I'd even forego HDMI all together if I found the best deal for a AVR/pre-pro with the best sound only had component. Ah well, I guess I should just go with the cheapest solution then.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
If it's looks I would say pre-pro. I started off with an Onkyo AVR which I later used as a pre-pro (sounded great). I always liked the looks of the Rotel 1066 pre-pro so I went for it. SQ wise not as good as the Onkyo AVR pre-out. Got a geat deal on a Atlantic-Technology pre-pro (to me it was awesome). After that I kept looking at the B&K Ref 50 S2 with rack mount face plate (3k), got to have it. Looks great, SQ wise average. If I would have stayed with the Onkyo AVR and used it as pre-amp I would be ahead a few bucks, but that's just the AH that's in all of us. Now that's just MO.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for all the info. It doesn't seem as if any single one stands out above the other in regards to pre-pro duties (unless I am misinterpreting).
You are limited by your $599 max budget. Your RX-V663 was listed in that price range at launch time so it is unlikely that any of the newer modes in the same price range could get you better sound quality. Again I am talking about pure direct mode for stereo applications. In multi channel movie applications, I think there is better chance (still not for sure) you may in fact find something like the Onkyo 708 sounding better.
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
I'm glad you pointed out the fact that muli channel movies may sound better with the onkyo. That is pretty much all I will have this working on is for multi channel movies. Leaning more an more toward the onkyo offerings...not sure if I need the network functions though.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
I'm glad you pointed out the fact that muli channel movies may sound better with the onkyo. That is pretty much all I will have this working on is for multi channel movies. Leaning more an more toward the onkyo offerings...not sure if I need the network functions though.
In theory there might be firmware updates but I have no clue if they've ever done one. The network functionality in my old TX-NR906 is so primitive that I never use it. Hopefully they've gotten better in the x08 receivers. Just as an FYI 3rd party network appliances have been a godsend in my house. I ripped my CD collection to the lossless flac format and can access my entire CD collection in full CD quality as easily as changing channels on the TV. To me that's the main utility of networking AV gear. I just don't know how well networked receivers do it.
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
Yeah. I'm trying to set up a windows home server and that will probably handle all of my streaming needs so there probably isn't a need for a networked receiver in my case.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
In theory there might be firmware updates but I have no clue if they've ever done one. The network functionality in my old TX-NR906 is so primitive that I never use it. Hopefully they've gotten better in the x08 receivers. Just as an FYI 3rd party network appliances have been a godsend in my house. I ripped my CD collection to the lossless flac format and can access my entire CD collection in full CD quality as easily as changing channels on the TV. To me that's the main utility of networking AV gear. I just don't know how well networked receivers do it.
I assume my Denon 4308's network functionality is primitive too but I still find it quite useful. A little slow but it does what I want it to do, wifi or wired.
 
jp_over

jp_over

Full Audioholic
3rd party network appliances

Just as an FYI 3rd party network appliances have been a godsend in my house. I ripped my CD collection to the lossless flac format and can access my entire CD collection in full CD quality as easily as changing channels on the TV. To me that's the main utility of networking AV gear. I just don't know how well networked receivers do it.
Sholling,

Which "3rd party network appliances" are you using that you like so much? I'm currently torn between:

1) network AVR
2) non network AVR + squeezebox duet

I think the second option might be more easy/intuitive for my wife to use to listen to internet radio (main goal + some listening to PC music). Duet owners please correct me if you don't like your remote!

Thanks!
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Sholling,

Which "3rd party network appliances" are you using that you like so much? I'm currently torn between:

1) network AVR
2) non network AVR + squeezebox duet

I think the second option might be more easy/intuitive for my wife to use to listen to internet radio (main goal + some listening to PC music). Duet owners please correct me if you don't like your remote!

Thanks!
I'm using a Western Digital TV Live in both my family room and bedroom. It comes with a 10/100 Ethernet port and 2 USB ports that you can use to stream music and DVD rips and connects to the receiver via HDMI. It's nothing fancy but it has a nice looking interface, a good little remote, and it plays most (all that I care about) formats of music and video, it includes Pandora and several other online services, and it's only ~$100. The "Plus" version adds Netflix capability. I have mine connected to the network plus a pair of external hard drives with my music collection and concert Blu-Rays. Blu-Rays can only be played off an external hard drive due to bandwidth network limitations and I store music on the local hard drive as a backup to my main library. I also like that my Harmony remote will control the WDTV Live. I just haven't found anything that does the job any better and certainly not for the price. If you're a Harmony user I have a couple of quick tips for even more intuitive integration than the Harmony and WDTV Live already share.

I am considering adding an Oppo 93 Blu-Ray player at some point but it doesn't support as many formats as the WDTV Life and I haven't decided if I want to spend $500 when I already have a PS3 for Blu-Ray and the WDTV Live does more on the media player side.
 
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davidtwotrees

davidtwotrees

Audioholic General
Stick with your money. You just have upgradeitis.
You are running an amp off your 663 so what isn't the 663 doing that you think a new $600 receiver will do? If it's sound then you will just be playing with wires and remotes. If that makes you happy, great, but you have a nice rig now, keep it and put your wallet away.
Sure, that's no fun. I am the voice of reason.
 
jp_over

jp_over

Full Audioholic
further question

I'm using a Western Digital TV Live in both my family room and bedroom. It comes with a 10/100 Ethernet port and 2 USB ports that you can use to stream music and DVD rips and connects to the receiver via HDMI. It's nothing fancy but it has a nice looking interface, a good little remote, and it plays most (all that I care about) formats of music and video, it includes Pandora and several other online services, and it's only ~$100. The "Plus" version adds Netflix capability. I have mine connected to the network plus a pair of external hard drives with my music collection and concert Blu-Rays. Blu-Rays can only be played off an external hard drive due to bandwidth network limitations and I store music on the local hard drive as a backup to my main library. I also like that my Harmony remote will control the WDTV Live. I just haven't found anything that does the job any better and certainly not for the price. If you're a Harmony user I have a couple of quick tips for even more intuitive integration than the Harmony and WDTV Live already share.

I am considering adding an Oppo 93 Blu-Ray player at some point but it doesn't support as many formats as the WDTV Life and I haven't decided if I want to spend $500 when I already have a PS3 for Blu-Ray and the WDTV Live does more on the media player side.
Sholling,

That looks like an excellent product (great price too!). In fact, I DO plan on purchasing a Harmony One (have ordered SongTowers + SongCenter and am buying AVR + Sub in the next week. I'd be very interested in hearing those integration tips.

Here's my main concern, can I play an Internet radio station (specifically KLOVE) that's not part of the stations listed? For example, can I go to a website (www.klove.com) and stream music through their site like I can from my PC? OR, am I limited to the radio stations listed on the WDTV site?

Thanks again!
 
Z

ZeGhostbear

Junior Audioholic
Sholling,

Which "3rd party network appliances" are you using that you like so much? I'm currently torn between:

1) network AVR
2) non network AVR + squeezebox duet

I think the second option might be more easy/intuitive for my wife to use to listen to internet radio (main goal + some listening to PC music). Duet owners please correct me if you don't like your remote!

Thanks!
I went with a Squeezebox Duet. The controller was cool for a while, but even when I got it many, many months ago, it was already outdated. Try to get just the box. Here are just some of the cons for the controller:

- It takes forever for it to come out of sleep mode. Very annoying when you just want to make a quick adjustment
- The screen is very small
- The battery runs out quickly
- The back is a shiny fingerprint magent and the front is matte (should be the other way around)

I switched to a 4th generation iPod and loaded iPeng on it. The whole user experience is completely changed. It is so much better! All my guests are very impressed and my girl uses it too.

The AVR handles the DAC for my FLACs and it sounds amazing too.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Sholling,

That looks like an excellent product (great price too!). In fact, I DO plan on purchasing a Harmony One (have ordered SongTowers + SongCenter and am buying AVR + Sub in the next week. I'd be very interested in hearing those integration tips.

Here's my main concern, can I play an Internet radio station (specifically KLOVE) that's not part of the stations listed? For example, can I go to a website (www.klove.com) and stream music through their site like I can from my PC? OR, am I limited to the radio stations listed on the WDTV site?

Thanks again!
The WDTV Live internet applications include: Deezer, Facebook, Flicker, Flingo, Live 365, Pandora, YouTube, and Mediafly. A search within Mediafly located a Klove so see if that's what you're looking for.

The tips are stupid simple because the setup for the WDTV Live remote is in the Harmony programming app (but not listed) - you just have to choose "media PC" and manually enter "Western Digital" and "WDTV Live" and it will know what you have. The two custom key mappings that I add are 1) I map the channel changer on the Harmony to Channel Up = "Next" and Channel Down = "Prev". What that does is speeds you though your listing of music by creating an intuitive page up and page down control where it should be.

2) I map the previous channel button on the harmony remote to "back". That's because you back out of folders and applets with the "back button" on the WD remote, and this custom mapping puts it right under your thumb instead of looking for it on the Harmony's touch screen. Those two little changes make all the differences in the world in perfecting the integration between Harmony and the WDTV Live.

Ben's Bargains has a coupon code making the "Plus" $90 shipped and review on it.
 

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