AVP X AVR - Which one Really Sounds Better??

[avliner]

Every once in a while I hear that an AVP sounds far better than its counterpart AVR, so let's take an example, to better illustrate my question though:

* MARANTZ AV 7005 PROCESSOR and
* MARANTZ SR 7005 AVR.

Is there a real sound improvement between these, or it's just plain' ole BS??

 

[j_garcia]

IMO, I am going to guess those two will sound more similar than not with the SR7005 used as a pre/pro in a similar fashion to the AV7005. IMO, the improvement will likely come more from using separate, heavier duty amplification than what the 7005 is capable of. So using the 7005 as a pre with a separate amp, will likely net you a similar end result.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm going to say those 2 will sound exactly the same.

I also think the pre-pro is more prone to ground loop hum noise, unless you also use the AVR as a pre-pro.

 

[avliner]

Thanks John,

that's my opinion as well, but sometimes you read/hear things that makes you think otherwise. Perhaps, if you compare the same 2 components, but from different generations, you may hear a difference though.

AFAIK, in the above mentioned example (Marantz), all audio & video circuitry are exactly the same, so no reason at all for one being better than other though ( considering the AVR will be getting an external power, same as the proceessor).

 

[PENG]

Assuming both are hooked up to an external amp, the AV will have lower noise floor, better cross talk numbers, lower distortion than the SR but in real world applications it is unlikely we human can hear the difference. Heck I could not hear a difference between the AV7005+amps and the Denon AVR-4308. As some of you know I am very skeptical of those who claimed they heard night and day differences between good quality AVRs such as the SR7005, AVR43XX and their beloved separates or AVRs+amps. Those people also often claimed it wasn't a question of being louder, but that even at low volume the one with the amp (or the separate system) would sound much better. Not much wrong with my hearing because I can hear difference between other components quite easily and I have had much younger keener ears to do the same AB listening they could not tell the differences either. Anyway, you can find out for yourself or choose to believe whoever you want to believe.

 

[GranteedEV]

the dedicated processor will run cooler.

 

[PENG]

the dedicated processor will run cooler.

Yes, but not much cooler in my case. Then again I typically listen at low spl, around 75 dB, so my amps don't work hard at all.

 

[agarwalro]

Pre-pros come and go as technology changes. A good amp can become an heirloom .

 

[greggp2]

Separate amps will allow you to have more head room and also allow you to hear more nuances in your sound reproduction, providing your speakers provide enough clarity to hear it

 

[PENG]

Separate amps will allow you to have more head room and also allow you to hear more nuances in your sound reproduction, providing your speakers provide enough clarity to hear it

I wasn't going to say anything but now I could agree at least to a point (still a little general imho). I just have trouble with generic, general and sometimes exaggerated statements especially when stated as though it's facts rather than opinions that we are all entitled to.

 

[avliner]

So, the general consensus so far, is that BOTH will sound pretty much the same and matter of fact, there's no logical reason not to, as we're basically comparing the very same products, right?

 

[agarwalro]

So, the general consensus so far, is that BOTH will sound pretty much the same and matter of fact, there's no logical reason not to, as we're basically comparing the very same products, right?

Ignoring sale prices, special offers, etc.,

Marantz AV7005 = $1600, 23 lbs.
Emotiva UMC-1 = $700, 16 lbs.
SR7005 = $1700, 29 lbs.
Emotiva XPA-5 = $900, 66 lbs.
Wyred 4 Sound MMC-7 = $2400, 15-20 lbs. (estimated)

Unscientific comparison, but, indulge me. You cannot get the amp section in the SR "version" for just $100 (economies of scale not withstanding). Adding a comparable 7ch amp to the AV "version" increases the budget by at least $1000. So, they are not the same or similar by any means. When compared to the SR, the AV7005 is way overbuilt pre-pro. Compared to a dedicated amp, the SR7005 amp section is weak.

Benchmarks and snobbery (and ignorance) aside, the purely audible considerations makes one wonder if the pre-pro in the AV7005 that much better than the SR7005? Are the dedicated amps truly needed by everyone who has one? With all electronics, after a specific price point and barring exceptions, they are equally good and indistinguishable. With speakers, it is about finding the most accurate. Here too, the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

As a dependable gross generalization, return on investment is greatest for room, then speakers and lastly electronics (negligible for cables). Sadly though, most spend in exactly the reverse order, most in cables and electronic, then speakers and almost nothing on the room.

 

[avliner]

... You cannot get the amp section in the SR "version" for just $100 (economies of scale not withstanding)....

I think you can...

...because - IMO - the total gross cost is based on the SR 7005 itself, which has the amp. section included. Furthermore, I'd say all brands always charges more for their AVP models, which, in principle, are more focused for those who are willing to drop an extra coin for the "higher-end models", as they supposedly sound overall better, though ( read AVP in this case).

If otherwise, in this particular example, Marantz is losing a bunch of money, which I don't think they are at all. Anyway, MHO and YMMV

 

[agarwalro]

Furthermore, I'd say all brands always charges more for their AVP models, which, in principle, are more focused for those who are willing to drop an extra coin for the "higher-end models", as they supposedly sound overall better, though ( read AVP in this case).

There's always an audiophile around the corner .

If otherwise, in this particular example, Marantz is losing a bunch of money, which I don't think they are at all.

IMHO, no one is losing money, anywhere in the chain. I bet the online retailers also make some profit during blowout/closeout sales.

 

[avliner]

Most definetely and that only shows profit margins are everywhere...

 

[j_garcia]

the dedicated processor will run cooler.

My receiver is currently only being used as a pre also, and it runs considerably cooler than when I had speakers being powered by it, so I'd have to agree with Peng that this is not a factor, or at least isn't going to make a difference in anything.

 

[avliner]

Same here, as I'm running an Emo UPA-7 off of my 2809 and no doubts the Denon runs much cooler for a logical reason: the internal amps. are not being used at all, so bottom line is the 2809 became a PRE-PRO, just out of the blues...