Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction Interview With Chris Kyriakakis

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My ears are used to whatever it is.

Jim
I bet your ears are used to whatever sounds best. You don't need anyone telling you what should sound best and what should sound most natural to you, do you? :D
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I was singing the room-correction-is-bad song for about 15 years and adamantly refused to listen to anything other than Pure Direct for both music and movies until one day I turned on Dynamic EQ. And in an instant, I changed my tune.
I also use Dynamic after I got a email from the Audyssey after I asked a question: What are the best Dynamic EQ settings for movies, music and games


" Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.
Audyssey Dynamic EQ is referenced to the standard film mix level. It makes adjustments to maintain the reference response and surround envelopment when the volume is turned down from 0 dB. However, film reference level is not always used in music or other non-film content. The Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset provides three offsets from the film level reference (5 dB, 10 dB, and 15 dB) that can be selected when the mix level of the content is not within the standard.
0 dB (Film Ref): This is the default setting and should be used when listening to movies.
15 dB: Select this setting for pop/rock music or other program material that is mixed at very high listening levels and has a compressed dynamic range.
10 dB: Select this setting for jazz or other music that has a wider dynamic range. This setting should also be selected for TV content as that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.
5 dB: Select this setting for content that has a very wide dynamic range like classical music."







"
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I also use Dynamic after I got a email from the Audyssey after I asked a question: What are the best Dynamic EQ settings for movies, music and games


" Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.
Audyssey Dynamic EQ is referenced to the standard film mix level. It makes adjustments to maintain the reference response and surround envelopment when the volume is turned down from 0 dB. However, film reference level is not always used in music or other non-film content. The Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset provides three offsets from the film level reference (5 dB, 10 dB, and 15 dB) that can be selected when the mix level of the content is not within the standard.
0 dB (Film Ref): This is the default setting and should be used when listening to movies.
15 dB: Select this setting for pop/rock music or other program material that is mixed at very high listening levels and has a compressed dynamic range.
10 dB: Select this setting for jazz or other music that has a wider dynamic range. This setting should also be selected for TV content as that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.
5 dB: Select this setting for content that has a very wide dynamic range like classical music."
But regardless of how it actually sounds to you, you really shouldn't use it because it is a bad idea. :D
 
Marshall_Guthrie

Marshall_Guthrie

Audioholics Videographer Extraordinaire
I think that whether or not to use Dynamic EQ is a perfect "trust your ears" moment. Personally, I'll use it. In my opinion, the science is sound and my ears like the results (for movies: a more balanced tonal response across the frequency range below a known reference level, for music: more mixed results given the lack of a standard reference level, but proves useful with small adjustments).
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I think that whether or not to use Dynamic EQ is a perfect "trust your ears" moment. Personally, I'll use it. In my opinion, the science is sound and my ears like the results (for movies: a more balanced tonal response across the frequency range below a known reference level, for music: more mixed results given the lack of a standard reference level, but proves useful with small adjustments).
Even if the Room Correction software could get the FR perfectly flat from 20Hz-5kHz +/-0.0dB and roll-off thereafter as precisely specified by audio "experts", I wouldn't use it if I didn't like the resulting sound.

And I would use it if it sounded awesome even if the room correction created a FR of +/-6dB. :D

I would never base my preference and enjoyment on somebody's preference or idea of what is supposed to be more "natural" and accurate. :D
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
Even if the Room Correction software could get the FR perfectly flat from 20Hz-5kHz +/-0.0dB and roll-off thereafter as precisely specified by audio "experts", I wouldn't use it if I didn't like the resulting sound.

And I would use it if it sounded awesome even if the room correction created a FR of +/-6dB. :D

I would never base my preference and enjoyment on somebody's preference or idea of what is supposed to be more "natural" and accurate. :D
Oh so very true.

My opinion, Don't use Room Correction because your AVR or processor is equipped with it, use it because you might need to. If there is no need, its really not a big deal... Your room and ears will let you know which path to take. .
 
S

sfesp

Audiophyte
i completely agree with Adam. I have a marantz 5007 in an open family, dining, kitchen area. The lrc + sub and surrounds are in the family room. The surround back are in the dining and kitchen area. The eq setup is good for the "couch listening area" but 80% of my use is eating or cooking while the kids are playing. I use the mch stereo for this but I have to tweak the settings to make it sound good. But With these settings movies sound terrible on the couch.

Allowing a different set of settings for a "walk around" and listen to music mode and a sit on the couch mode seems so obvious and so simple!

If anyone has a solution please let me know.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
OK, so it doesn't need to be a truly flat response, but Audyssey says they're trying for smooth, IIRC. If the low frequency dip in the response curve above isn't audible, I'll sell all of my equipment and use an iPod for the rest of my life.

Deep notches are clearly audible, especially when moving through the acoustic space and when a seating location is very close to that mode, it's extremely annoying. Not only do some bass notes disappear, if the person moves to either side, the phase problem will be similar to holding a working woofer that's receiving a signal with the axis perpendicular to the listener. Should we just accept the room modes and think that it's OK?

If the level of the notes isn't even and/or smooth as an instrument is played up and down the scale, how realistic is it? Obviously, an instrument can have "dead" notes, but a good one won't. This will change with distance to the instrument in free space, but when bad acoustics enter the equation, the distance doesn't need to change, only the listener's position.

So, the question exists- we can make it smooth with a "house curve", make it flat AND smooth with some dips and peaks, or tweak it so it sounds good to their test subjects. As a coarse measure, I always liked Yamaha's variable loudness control- the amount of correction needed depends on the SPL, so it makes a lot more sense than just a toggle switch. However, Murphy's Law means that some of the frequencies boosted will be excessively strong.
I also use Dynamic after I got a email from the Audyssey after I asked a question: What are the best Dynamic EQ settings for movies, music and games


" Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.
Audyssey Dynamic EQ is referenced to the standard film mix level. It makes adjustments to maintain the reference response and surround envelopment when the volume is turned down from 0 dB. However, film reference level is not always used in music or other non-film content. The Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset provides three offsets from the film level reference (5 dB, 10 dB, and 15 dB) that can be selected when the mix level of the content is not within the standard.
0 dB (Film Ref): This is the default setting and should be used when listening to movies.
15 dB: Select this setting for pop/rock music or other program material that is mixed at very high listening levels and has a compressed dynamic range.
10 dB: Select this setting for jazz or other music that has a wider dynamic range. This setting should also be selected for TV content as that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.
5 dB: Select this setting for content that has a very wide dynamic range like classical music."
"
FWIW, those level settings should have - ahead of them, since they're showing the attenuation.

I would have to run Audyssey to try that- without running it, I don't think I EVER exceeded -12dB although the room size and surfaces have control over that. Once multiple reverberations become almost as loud as the direct sound, it sounds so bad there's no reason to continue at that SPL.

When I was using my Denon AVR, I didn't run Audyssey, but I did use the manual EQ and Room EQ Wizard to get a smooth response at the listening location, with the roll-off starting in the 1-2KHz range.

There are many reasons to EQ- to make it smooth, to make it easier to listen to, to make it fit someone's hearing deficit(s) or make it flat when that's what someone thinks it needs. However, I haven't seen many people talk about making it sound REAL. Real instruments aren't necessarily what the recording is mixed for and if the sound of the real instrument and the recording were compared via A/B switching, a lot of people would prefer the recording.

There will never be total agreement but if it sounds better, use it. The Harmon speaker test showed that most people preferred the same speakers, but if the test had been designed to find their preferred sound, I think it would have been more valid on an absolute scale. However, Dr Toole said that management went to him to find out why their speakers weren't selling as well as others, so it was purely a marketing test.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
While we all have our favorite listening material, I was wondering if anyone else would be interested in compiling a short list of recommended music that could aid in getting a sense of what others are hearing when they test a system? I don't want it to become so large that nobody would want to sift through to find something, but maybe we could show the artist, track, format, Data for digital material (320KHz/24) and if it is a re-mastered or special version, that would make it easier to hear the same relative quality (e.g., end of the line LP vs import or higher quality pressing).

It would make our comments about why we like a particular speaker easier to relate to if we know that the other person is listening to classical and someone else is listening to hard core punk, folk, Tibetan throat-singing, etc.
 
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