Audiophile or Skeptic?

[3db]

"Just because it may be out of someone's budget shouldn't exclude it from being reviewed."

This is begging the question. I am saying a. the more expensive, the more data and evidence for sonic improvements I'll want to see. b. As for me, I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford most of the products, but I don't want to be ripped off.

That said, if you're shopping for exclusivity, which is basically like saying you want the Rolex version of an audio component. That's fine, but let the review and the company marketing reflect that.

Measurements/tests methodology are a benchmark that are independent (excluding features that the higher price equipment may have that the lower price doesn't)> They are mutually exclusive so that test results can be compared with meaningful results across the dollar spectrum. That is what is needed and that is what Audioholics strives for. Exclusivity is mentioned in the reviews by mere suggestion of MSRP.

 

[MBauer]

I think any area that needs more skepticism is ourselves. As an aging audiophile I know that my ability to hear is not what it used to be and upon reflection even in my youth I should have been more skeptical about myself. Spending hundreds of hours with your head near a turbine engine and a transmission spinning at 1000's of RPMs has an impact. Too often, in my view, we don't notice the gradual loss of hearing and the lack of audio acuity. I recall reading in a publication I shall not name about the aged founder (then in his 80's) and the subtle nuances of music he could detect in a 6 figure turntable. Was he a biological sport or a person who read the price tag first? I'll let you be the judge.

Should an Audiophile be a skeptic? I really don't see how one can be an audiophile and not be a skeptic? We are constantly bombarded by performance and equipment claims which we should be skeptical about.

 

[jliedeka]

I have no problem with people selling expensive equipment. I probably won't be buying any Bryston amplifiers but they are damn good amplifiers. I don't think I would hear the difference between those and some good cheaper ones but I have no problem with someone else buying and enjoying them.

We all have our own way of calculating bang for buck. I don't really approve of selling snake oil stuff but in the grand scheme of things it's a pretty venial sin.

Jim

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think how we see things in audio is totally dependent on our life experiences with everything, not just audio. The root is planted deeper than any article written today or 20 years ago.

It is rooted in our education, profession, upbringing, and personal experiences. Nothing said in this article or any article is going to change people's mind. It has nothing to do with settling for something good instead of great.

I started out believing I could hear all kinds of significant things with amps, preamps, DAC, and even cables/wires when I first became an audio enthusiast around my freshman year in college. This belief lasted until I finished my post graduate studies in pharmacy. So the time period was from 18YO - 25YO, which was 7 years. So during this 7 yr stretch, I didn't care for any kind of proofs or level-matching or blinded studies or whatever. From 25YO - present day (44YO), I doubt just about everything unless I could see some proofs.

So my change in beliefs was not overnight, but over a long period of time that was affected by different aspects of life.

 

[jinjuku]

I'm skeptical of claims and not so much the equipment. When you have AudioQuest trotting out $350 Ethernet cable and calling it CAT7 (which it isn't because it doesn't have the proper termination) You have to be a skeptic.

 

[highfigh]

I'm still trying to figure out why a 6' HDMI cable with batteries should cost $1500, or a 2m pair of audio interconnects should retail for $6999.99 and I just can't see it.

Exactly, how do batteries that are on an open-ended loop "bias the dielectric" when the dielectric is supposed to insulate?

How do cables break in?

I have asked several EEs about this and they all reacted the same way- made a sound like Scooby-Doo and tilted their head. These aren't the kind of EEs that walk around saying "I know what a transistor does", some are in Aerospace, designing and working with missile guidance systems that need to be hardened against EMP and nuclear radiation, so they know a bit about shielding/isolation. Others are in communications and other areas of electronics, like one who worked for a company that built and serviced X-Ray scanners for the food industry, but eventually taught himself to work with PLCs and ended up designing the last machines they made, which were better than anything they had produced before. He also has a very long association with audio. They're as curious as I am.

 

[ARES24]

Data cable with-standing, I think I might have a hard time discerning the need to upgrade cabling when the principles of its' construction is the same. Maybe if I decide to get stranded silver wire instead of copper...

 

[herbu]

Read through this thread for the first time... and laughed. The first thing that struck me was the people who seemed more intent on impressing us with their writing than their arguments. Guys, $2 words and fancy writing does not make your opinion worth any more. In fact, the harder I have to work to understand your report, the more I doubt your veracity. If you can't make your point quickly and simply, your message is diminished.

Now my point. How can anyone be any kind of "holic" without a healthy skepticism? Indiscriminately buying audio equipment does not make one an Audioholic.

 

[ski2xblack]

Skeptic? More like 'cynic' due to the marketing nonsense. It's pushed me into the DIY realm, and I have to say it's much more gratifying.

 

[jliedeka]

Now my point. How can anyone be any kind of "holic" without a healthy skepticism? Indiscriminately buying audio equipment does not make one an Audioholic.

I think an important part of being an A-holic (A-Hole?) is wanting some bang for our AV buck. We want the most accurate reproduction we can get in whatever our price range is. Measured performance is the best way to be sure we're getting that.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

There are as many approaches to audio satisfaction as there are those invested in the hobby. We don't have perfect sound, so to me it seems obvious that any number of approaches must be valid. Complicate that with a budget and clearly the options are both more, and less, complicated at the same time. There is, thankfully, enough enthusiasts in this hobby to satisfy multiple approaches.

I'm not offended by audio products I can't afford simply because I can't afford them, any more than I'm offended by a car with a seven-figure price tag just because I could simply buy a Viper instead, but there are those who would argue that because a Civic is available that both more expensive cars are worthless extravagances. And they might not even be wrong, given their priorities. There really is no "wrong".

There is nothing wrong with seeking out value; even the wealthy can't be talked into buying a $10,000 audio system if they don't see the value in one, despite the fact they can easily afford it. This is a very personal hobby and my approach can hardly be the only approach.

So I'm indifferent as to what others spend their money on, and if asked for advice I first try to put myself in the other person's shoes, then give my honest opinion. It isn't, and shouldn't be "what I would buy" because I probably have different priorities. Nor am I interested in arguing about it ... you ask, I answer, and that's where it ends. Take it for what it is, my considered opinion.

And it should be the same for reviews here on Audioholics ... the reviewer gives his honest opinion and it's up to the reader to make what he will of it. Nobody is hiding the price, so I don't see how that could be a point of contention. Review stuff I can't afford, review stuff I can, and review stuff I feel is sub-par to my current stuff. It's all good.

 

[Tom._White]

I can enjoy a good song on an AM radio. There may be more to enjoy, more details available to my senses when listening through better equipment, more dynamics, more visceral sensations, but the best equipment can't create that enjoyment if it's not there in the first place.

Brian Wilson (leader of the Beach Boys, for the youngsters who might not know) used to say he never knew if one of his songs was any good until he heard it on a car radio. Those radios were all AM only at that time.

 

[CSG]

When it comes to cables and wire, I'm a skeptic. When it comes to expensive electronics (like $5000+ amps, pre-amps, integrateds, AVRs, etc.), I'm a skeptic. And we can go down the list until we get to speakers. While there is no world I live in that could justify *my* spending thousands of dollars on speakers, that's the one component that makes the big difference in how things sound. I've had arguments with people who tell me that speakers are the least important component of the system and that source is everything. After getting to the midlevel stuff (a thousand dollar integrated and five hundred dollar CD or TT), it's all about speakers IMO as long as you have appropriate clean power and well recorded media.

Most serious *audiophiles* wouldn't consider me an audiophile. I'm not sure *I* consider myself an audiophile. I'm a musician in love with music and listen to recorded music daily. But my main system is a Marantz PM8004, Marantz CD6004, and a pair of NHT SuperOne 2.1 speakers. If fits my low ceiling 14x19 living room just fine with way more volume available than I will use. My AV system is based on an analog Yamaha RX-V990 with Celestion DL-8 II's as L/R and NHT SuperOnes (originals) as center and rear. The TV is a 720 Vizio from a few years back.

I enjoy reading forums like this one but rarely spend much time thinking about upgrades save for Harbeth speakers (which I've never actually heard live). I just like what the owner's approach is.

 

[Leroy Jenkins]

I'm not OCD enough to be an audiophile.

 

[Leroy Jenkins]

When it comes to cables and wire, I'm a skeptic. When it comes to expensive electronics (like $5000+ amps, pre-amps, integrateds, AVRs, etc.), I'm a skeptic. And we can go down the list until we get to speakers. While there is no world I live in that could justify *my* spending thousands of dollars on speakers, that's the one component that makes the big difference in how things sound. I've had arguments with people who tell me that speakers are the least important component of the system and that source is everything. After getting to the midlevel stuff (a thousand dollar integrated and five hundred dollar CD or TT), it's all about speakers IMO as long as you have appropriate clean power and well recorded media.

Most serious *audiophiles* wouldn't consider me an audiophile. I'm not sure *I* consider myself an audiophile. I'm a musician in love with music and listen to recorded music daily. But my main system is a Marantz PM8004, Marantz CD6004, and a pair of NHT SuperOne 2.1 speakers. If fits my low ceiling 14x19 living room just fine with way more volume available than I will use. My AV system is based on an analog Yamaha RX-V990 with Celestion DL-8 II's as L/R and NHT SuperOnes (originals) as center and rear. The TV is a 720 Vizio from a few years back.

I enjoy reading forums like this one but rarely spend much time thinking about upgrades save for Harbeth speakers (which I've never actually heard live). I just like what the owner's approach is.

I like his fact based approach as well. It's refreshing in a sea of marketing BS.

 

[Alexandre]

I'm not offended by audio products I can't afford simply because I can't afford them, any more than I'm offended by a car with a seven-figure price tag just because I could simply buy a Viper instead, but there are those who would argue that because a Civic is available that both more expensive cars are worthless extravagances. And they might not even be wrong, given their priorities. There really is no "wrong".

Im just catching this thread now, it's kinda fun and I am responding somewhat off topic but eh… I love the car metaphor! That's actually how I've been explaining my desire to spend money on audio gear to my wife — and admittedly, I've spent quite a bit of money on gear (speakers, preamp and amp, not on cables, I've only gotten caught on that once). She's way more into cars than I am, I'd be content with a 10 years old second hand car or a basic bottom of the line Japanese import but she'd much much rather get a nice German made automobile.

In any case, I am definitely more in the skeptics camp but I probably do have more disposable income than average which has allowed me to get some nice equipment (significantly more expensive than any car I've ever owned). Cables are one of those things I did wonder about for a while and it's kinda hard to find an audio publication that is realistic/scientific about cables, thankfully there is audioholics!

The other thing I would add is that as it was alluded to in the original article, the world "audiophile", to me, sounds wrong now. It feels like it's lost its original meaning and now refers to a certain category of people which I don't really feel like I want to be associated, mostly because, I feel like it has become the opposite of skeptic.

 

[jliedeka]

That's why someone coined the term "audiophool".

Jim