Audio/compatibility confusion :(

[Porky]

Hi guys,

I wonder if someone can help me out as my knowledge of all this audio stuff is starting to go over my head!

A few months back I bought a new computer, which has 5.1 surround sound capability build into its motherboard. I never bothered replacing my old speakers to save a bit of a cash as I wasnt too worried about having the surround thing working. Finally my 2 little PC speakers have died so Im looking at buying some new ones.

Unfortunately being a student I dont have huge amounts of money - so was planning on getting a sort of "PC surround" sort of set up - something like this:

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=1952224433&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X3NwZWNpZmljYXRpb25z&product_uid=45857

Unluckily for me, while I was shopping I realised that I *really really* should buy a DVD player while Im at it. My friend has a DVD player made by KISS technologies - it can link into a LAN card on a computer to play DivX files and so on. I really like the look of some of this equipment but I have just "a few" questions that Im kinda worried about.

Firstly, is it possible to set the system up so that both my computer and my DVD player could be plugged into the speakers at once, via some sort of switch, so that I can just "flick it across" if I decide to watch a film or something?

Secondly, Im worried about the compatibility of my motherboard AND the DVD with the speakers. For example, the DVD player will have a digital sound output (almost for sure) but Im not sure what the sound that comes out of my PC is like. There are no optical outlets, just those sorta "headphone" pin sockets in varying colours. Does this mean that finding something that can handle both analogue and digital sound will be a problem?

Thirdly, Is it likely that to sort the problem above I will need to buy some sort of separate amplifier, and then plug this into the speakers (even though I think the speakers come with one as well).

And finally, what sort of cables should I be looking at getting for this and how much are they likely to cost? My TV has a scart socket at the back.

Thanks to anyone who can lend a few tips,

Porky

 

[Audioholics]

Firstly, is it possible to set the system up so that both my computer and my DVD player could be plugged into the speakers at once, via some sort of switch, so that I can just "flick it across" if I decide to watch a film or something?

Why not just get a DVD drive for your computer for like $30?

Secondly, Im worried about the compatibility of my motherboard AND the DVD with the speakers. For example, the DVD player will have a digital sound output (almost for sure) but Im not sure what the sound that comes out of my PC is like. There are no optical outlets, just those sorta "headphone" pin sockets in varying colours. Does this mean that finding something that can handle both analogue and digital sound will be a problem?

Again - solved by the DVD drive.

Thirdly, Is it likely that to sort the problem above I will need to buy some sort of separate amplifier, and then plug this into the speakers (even though I think the speakers come with one as well).

You dont want to use an amp or receiver with powered speakers.

And finally, what sort of cables should I be looking at getting for this and how much are they likely to cost? My TV has a scart socket at the back.

You wont need any cables except what comes with the computer speakers if you go with a DVD drive.

Try this product.

 

[Porky]

cheers...but...

Thanks for the reply hauke.

I already have a DVD drive on my computer, and I am not interested in viewing DVDs on my computer really.

The thing is that my TV is quite close to my computer, so I looked at getting the video output put across to my TV. The graphics card for my computer came with a cable but after plugging it all in, and trying to tune my TV it wont pick the signal up. Even if it did, I think it still wouldnt look very good so Id rather buy a separate DVD player...

Im just worried that half the stuff wont be compatible. Does a device exist that can switch between analogue and digital sounds?

Thanks again for the advice,

Porky

 

[JoeE SP9]

What kind of TV/monitor do you have and what kind if inputs does it have? What kind of graphics card is on your computer? On my ATI card there is a SV output that I plug directly into a JVC JX-S100 (4 input video switcher). The output from the JVC goes to my TV monitor.

 

[av_phile]

Firstly, is it possible to set the system up so that both my computer and my DVD player could be plugged into the speakers at once, via some sort of switch, so that I can just "flick it across" if I decide to watch a film or something?

I would suggest you connect both the S/PDIF output of your PC and DVD player to a multichannel receiver with a set of digital input so you can switch to either. IF you are content with PC speakers, then a line level switch is needed, but I am not aware of any standalone swtich that accepts S/PDIF. Only some multichannel swtiches that are quite expensive. YOu can google search for one.

Secondly, Im worried about the compatibility of my motherboard AND the DVD with the speakers. For example, the DVD player will have a digital sound output (almost for sure) but Im not sure what the sound that comes out of my PC is like. There are no optical outlets, just those sorta "headphone" pin sockets in varying colours. Does this mean that finding something that can handle both analogue and digital sound will be a problem?

Both devices have S/PDIF output. Your built-in sound processor in the motherboard also has one among those multicolored "headphone" pin sockets Check the motherboard manual as it identifies which of those baby jacks are for digital. Some jacks have dual function - that can serve as a digital output or as an analog sub-woofer output depending on the device software configuration you use.

Thirdly, Is it likely that to sort the problem above I will need to buy some sort of separate amplifier, and then plug this into the speakers (even though I think the speakers come with one as well).

Your PC speakers are powered to accept the line level ouput of either your DVD player or PC soundcard. But you can have better sonic results using a separate integrated amplifer for this purposes, matched to better speakers and powered subwoofers. Alternatively, those 5.1 receivers can also do the job to accept either the analog or digital output of your DVD player and PC sound. Either way, you can switch to either sources.

And finally, what sort of cables should I be looking at getting for this and how much are they likely to cost? My TV has a scart socket at the back.

If you're not into DIY cables, any well-built 75-ohm impedance RCA coax cable in most AV shops will do the job for you to connect a DVD player's digital output to a receiver or integrated amp. Using toslink optic cable is another. Connecting your PC may be a bit more demanding as you would need a cable terminated on baby phone jack at one end and a mono RCA plug at the other for coaxial S/PDIF connection. And depending on the motherboard design, the S/PDIF may be on a baby phone jack that is for stereo, so you may need a stereo baby jack for this, unless you know precisely which channel the S/PDIF signal goes through.

The SCART connection is a European standard. If your DVD player has one, use a SCART cable. The s-video connection will do just fine, so use an s-video cable. If composite, use any mono 75-ohm coax cable or a good RCA cable. But I doubt if the PC supports SCART connection. Most likely its video card has a lone S-video or composite video connection. If your TV has video 1 and video 2 selection, you can have both sources connected to the TV directly using the relevant cables. Alternatively, you can route both to the video inputs of an HT receiver so you can use the receiver's On Screen Menu(OSD) as well.

 

[Porky]

Cheers!

Hi guys,

@ JoeE: Thanks for your reply! I have a Hansol 920D 19" monitor running at 1280x1024 standard resolution. My graphics card is an ATI Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro. It has TV-out capability and is supplied with a cable. Unfortunately I dont know the technical names for these cables so Ill describe them as best I can. On the back of the graphics card there is a circular "female" connection with lots (10 - 15 maybe) pin holes on it. There is also a retangular female connection - the holes in it are squares arranged in two rows.

My TV is a "Black Diamond" - I think its a bit old and Im fairly sure its made by Mitsubishi. On the back the connections are as follows: There are two rows of female "phono" sockets. One of the rows is in, the other is out, and they are coloured red, white and yellow (left, right and video right?). There are also two SCART sockets - labelled SCART I and SCART II even though I think they are identical (?!). Strangely there are two other panels labelled with "+" and "-" symbols, with S, S and 0 written above them - the panel is covered with plastic which suggests that my model of TV isnt flash enough to have this feature.

@ AV_phile: thats very much for your reply. I have read the manual to my motherboard and discovered that it does indeed have this S/PDIF (whatever that is!) on the back and if I alter the software settings and connect the cables in the correct fashion it will give 6 channel sound, as you have said in your second paragraph.

So just to be clear, if the DVD is outputting SPDIF format sound, and the motherboard is doing the same....and the speakers are "expecting" SPDIF sound i need a switch that can flick between either of two SPDIF inputs to its single SPDIF output? I think that might be hard to find but Ill have a look - I just wanted to double check that Im after the right thing!

Another question about the cables if I may...I want to be sure Im thinking correctly about all of the different abbreviations. The SPDIF is the "format" that the sound is supplied by the devices is, but RCA is the type of cable required. From what I can understand from your post, the DVD output sound will be one cable. however the output from my motherboard requires all three pins (3 cables?!) to be in use to deliver the sound.

Im afraid Im still slightly confused about all of the connections/types of connection required to make this work! So far I think its supposed to go something like this:

VIDEO:

DVD will be SCART from DVD to TV if the DVD has scart. If not it will be S-video (thats the round yellow one?!) to s-video.

DVD AUDIO will be SPDIF RCA coaxial cable from DVD to the switch.

PC AUDIO is where i get confused. I think it will be three headphone pins out of the motherboard but has to somehow connect to this switch.

THE SWITCH will have to accept the SPDIF RCA thing from the DVD and somehow the motherboards three cables and give an output of this RCA SPDIF to go into the speakers.


Sound anywhere close to correct?!

Thanks for any more help anyone can offer,

Porky

 

[Unregistered]

- S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format) defines both the data format and the hardware interface for transferring audio digitally. S/PDIF can be transferred over a coaxial cable with RCA connectors or an optical cable with Toslink connectors.

- Technically there is no such thing as an 'analog' cable or a 'digital cable' when talking about coaxial cables. The only difference is the characteristic impedance of the cable required by the spec to successfully carry the signal (75 ohm for analog Video and coaxial digital). 75 ohm coax video or digital audio cables will work just fine for carrying analog audio as well. People say 'analog cables' simply to indicate they are carrying analog audio signals.

- Connectors: RCA refers to the standard connector we've had for decades. Coax cables terminated with RCA connectors are used for analog audio, analog video, and digital audio. Toslink refers to the connector at the end of a digital optical cable. Again, people say 'rca cables' to mean a cable terminated with an RCA connector.

- Radio Shack and others sell switches that take multiple coax and/or optical inputs and output 1 or many. You can use these to connect a device with a coax output to a device with an optical input or to switch two inputs to one output as you want to do.

- I think you are confusing the various outputs of your soundcard (motherboard down or separate card). You won't need three cables to output digital audio. Just like a/v equipment, soundcards often have multiple outputs for hookup flexibility. If it can pass s/pdif, you will need only 1 cable. Whether that cable is optical or coax depends on the particular card. See the thread on connecting soundcard to a/v equipment for details (the only consideration is what type of connector your card offers). The other outputs you mention are analog outputs for connecting to speakers.

Does that about cover it?

 

[JoeE SP9]

I'm not really familiar with SCART interfaces. They are not that prevalent in the US. I'm sure some of the european participants may be of more assistance. Good luck.

 

[av_phile]

Hi guys,

My graphics card is an ATI Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro. It has TV-out capability and is supplied with a cable. Unfortunately I dont know the technical names for these cables so Ill describe them as best I can. On the back of the graphics card there is a circular "female" connection with lots (10 - 15 maybe) pin holes on it. There is also a retangular female connection - the holes in it are squares arranged in two rows.

That circular female connection with lots of pin holes is an S-video terminal. You would need an S-VIDEO cable to use it and your TV must likewise have an S-VIDEO terminal.

That rectangular female connection is a VGA terminal to connect to your PC monitor. You would need a VGA cable to use it (All PC monitors have such cables.) There may be some TV monitors and flat panel displays that can accept VGA connection. This is a digital connection.

My TV is a "Black Diamond" - I think its a bit old and Im fairly sure its made by Mitsubishi. On the back the connections are as follows: There are two rows of female "phono" sockets. One of the rows is in, the other is out, and they are coloured red, white and yellow (left, right and video right?). There are also two SCART sockets - labelled SCART I and SCART II even though I think they are identical (?!). Strangely there are two other panels labelled with "+" and "-" symbols, with S, S and 0 written above them - the panel is covered with plastic which suggests that my model of TV isnt flash enough to have this feature.

The SCART is an acronym for a set of French words I couldn't care to remember and is a standard for European TV connections. You would need a SCART cable to use it. And your DVD player and receiver must also sport this type of terminal. Based on your description of your TV monitor, there are no s-video terminals and those color coding schemes indicate composite connection abilities only.

So just to be clear, if the DVD is outputting SPDIF format sound, and the motherboard is doing the same....and the speakers are "expecting" SPDIF sound i need a switch that can flick between either of two SPDIF inputs to its single SPDIF output? I think that might be hard to find but Ill have a look - I just wanted to double check that Im after the right thing!

Just to correct your impression. S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital InterFace) is not a sound format, but a transmission type signifying a digital transmission of 0s and 1s or in packets. And your speakers can never expect "S/PDIF inputs" because these are digital and will look greek to speakers. They're basically square waves that, if sufficiently amplified, can ruin a speaker.

But you're right that BOTH a DVD player and a sound-equipped PC motherboard can output digitally via an S/PDIF connection. But both will require a decoding processor that will convert the digital streams into analog waveforms that a power amplifer and then a speaker can recognize. You cannot connect them directly to a powered PC satellite speakers and expect any resulting sound to be meaningful.

Another question about the cables if I may...I want to be sure Im thinking correctly about all of the different abbreviations. The SPDIF is the "format" that the sound is supplied by the devices is, but RCA is the type of cable required. From what I can understand from your post, the DVD output sound will be one cable. however the output from my motherboard requires all three pins (3 cables?!) to be in use to deliver the sound.

S/PDIF can be transmitted either via an optical toslink cable (available in any radio shack store) or a 75-ohm coaxial RCA cable (available from any electrical store).

I can understand your confusion. Right now the only reason there are 3 cables connecting your PC motherboard to a set of powered PC speakers is because you are getting the 6 analog signals from your PC motherboard: front left, front right, center, LFE (Subwoofer), surround left and surround right. These are all low level analog signals that goes through 3 stereo cables terminated by stereo baby jacks and fed to the proper inputs on your powered satellite speakers. There are six speakers, right?

But if you go the digital route, you would only need one(1) cable, coax or toslink. But you need a digital processor as can be found in HT receivers and preamps that have what is called DAC (Digtial to Analog Converters) chips to mathematically extract from the digital streams the analog waveforms to drive the internal amps of a receiver or your powered satellite speakers. Right now, the digtal -to-analog conversion is being done by the associated chips in your motherboard, so you already get analog signals for your power satellite speakers.

VIDEO:

DVD will be SCART from DVD to TV if the DVD has scart. If not it will be S-video (thats the round yellow one?!) to s-video.

The round yellow one is composite. The s-video is the one you described as having many pinholes inside a circular female connection.

DVD AUDIO will be SPDIF RCA coaxial cable from DVD to the switch.

PC AUDIO is where i get confused. I think it will be three headphone pins out of the motherboard but has to somehow connect to this switch.

THE SWITCH will have to accept the SPDIF RCA thing from the DVD and somehow the motherboards three cables and give an output of this RCA SPDIF to go into the speakers.

Using the 6 analog output of our motherboard will require a switch with 6 selector points. And using the S/PDIF from your DVD player will require the same switch to have an S/PDIF terminal as well. You can do both in an HT receiver. Am just not sure if there are separate audio selector swtiches that have.