Article on Skeptic Magazine Website

Ares

Ares

Audioholic Samurai
Nice find Randy, I like the fact that he touched on myths of the Audio world.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Agreed, this was a fun article to read. Granted it very much echoes the sentiments of most AH members at this point, it's just nice to see a well written article out there covering a list of common snake oil traps that beset an otherwise fine industry. If there's a market for it... the vultures will be out there ready to cash in, bottom line. ;)
 
Shock

Shock

Audioholic General
"The key to identifying most audio scams is the very high prices charged. As an audio pro, I know that $1,000 can buy a state of the art power amplifier. So it makes no sense to pay, say, $17,000 for an amplifier that is no better and may well be worse."
He couldn't be more right.
 
O

oppman99

Senior Audioholic
Good read. That should be required reading for many new forum members.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
If anyone has seen the room mode calculator I and a few others have linked and referred to, it was provided by Ethan Winer, on his web site.
 
Hipnotic4

Hipnotic4

Full Audioholic
Cant be mad at those companies selling those pointless products. If people are going to buy them, might as well sell them.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Cant be mad at those companies selling those pointless products. If people are going to buy them, might as well sell them.
So people should be able to make all kinds of claims that can't be substantiated without any kind of responsibility for lying? That's usually called fraud.
 
Chatta

Chatta

Junior Audioholic
Few of us have unlimited budgets and must spend what funds we have wisely.
Thats great! Why should spend a lot of bucks in expensive audio stuff, when you can get something better for a good price?
 
B

Boerd

Full Audioholic
So people should be able to make all kinds of claims that can't be substantiated without any kind of responsibility for lying? That's usually called fraud.
They flirt with fraud.
Example:
Spec 1: Channel separation: -90 db
Spec 2: Channel separation:-60 db at 20Hz 4dbu

Spec 1 actually says -90 at 1Khz and the second spec is actually better (crosstalk gets worst at a 6 dB/octave rate with increasing frequency).
If you don't know you get fooled.
Consumers have their own responsibility to get educated. Read. Learn.
I don't agree with this kind of specs and false claims but for whatever reason the standard specs are NOT enforced :confused:...
I have another example:
at http://www.headphone.com/headphones/akg-k-702-black.php these "honest:eek::eek:" guys make the 702 akg seem like they need a headphone amp.
These headphones have low impedance and high sensitivity - they DO NOT need an amp but the guys at headphone.com are trying to sell their own s^(&t.
And the examples can continue...
 
Hipnotic4

Hipnotic4

Full Audioholic
So people should be able to make all kinds of claims that can't be substantiated without any kind of responsibility for lying? That's usually called fraud.
...Its not that hard to simply question a claim, especially with the countless information on various different forums from all over the web.

Is it bad that companies sell BS stuff and make false claims? yesss

...but i think the consumer takes a bigger fault for spending the 20grand on speaker wire just because of some companies claims..
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
...Its not that hard to simply question a claim, especially with the countless information on various different forums from all over the web.

Is it bad that companies sell BS stuff and make false claims? yesss

...but i think the consumer takes a bigger fault for spending the 20grand on speaker wire just because of some companies claims..
From Dictionary.com-
"A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain."

It's not a matter of whether the fraud is successful, it's the act. Sure- people should educate themselves but how many of us buy things that we don't bother to verify just because what is claimed sounds reasonable? We read claims that cabling doesn't make a difference, complete with charts, formulas and testimonials from experts in the field. That doesn't qualify as us having done it, we just read that someone said the results shown are true. It goes both ways- we either buy, or not, based on what we read and in some cases, hear or see but that's not educating ourselves as much as trying something out although that's sometimes the only test possible/necessary. How many times do we need to make a decision that will be based on someone else's recommendation because we don't want to know everything about something?

Sales used to be made by overcoming the objections of a customer, based on their perceptions and existing information before price became the biggest factor. Deep discounts were done mostly by people who couldn't sell in any other way and was generally avoided because every seller knew that as soon as everyone sells for less, nobody will make much money. When a seller would resort to false information- lies, if you want- the rest of the dealers, and sometimes the whole industry, would make it known that they weren't happy about it and try to get the offender to stop. Some areas of the audio industry have degraded to the level of used car salesmen, IMO.

Caveat emptor isn't new but when it was coined, the products weren't as complicated. I would prefer facts were used for this kind of thing, not mystery and bullshyte.

Cable sellers are like the guy wearing the white suit in 'The Outlaw Josey Wales' selling the elixir of life and we need to be more like Josie and Lone Watty- Josie spit tobacco juice on his suit and asked how well it works on stains and Lone Watty asked what was in it and when the salesman said it had various ingredients, he told the guy to drink it himself.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...Example:
Spec 1: Channel separation: -90 db
Spec 2: Channel separation:-60 db at 20Hz 4dbu

Spec 1 actually says -90 at 1Khz and the second spec is actually better (crosstalk gets worst at a 6 dB/octave rate with increasing frequency).
...
Did you really mean 20Hz or 20kHz?;)
 
S

superted

Banned
They flirt with fraud.
Example:
Spec 1: Channel separation: -90 db
Spec 2: Channel separation:-60 db at 20Hz 4dbu

Spec 1 actually says -90 at 1Khz and the second spec is actually better (crosstalk gets worst at a 6 dB/octave rate with increasing frequency).
If you don't know you get fooled.
6dB/octave? Where did you get that "knowledge" from?
 
B

Boerd

Full Audioholic
Did you really mean 20Hz or 20kHz?;)
Thanks - Imeant 20Khz

6dB/octave? Where did you get that "knowledge" from?
I guess he isnt super:rolleyes:
Super enough to call other people foolish though :rolleyes:
Here are two links:

From Rane (pro gear manufacturer)
http://www.rane.com/note145.html

Audio Power Amplifier Design Handbook (By Douglas Self)
http://books.google.com/books?id=Qpmi4ia2nhcC&pg=PT502&lpg=PT502&dq=crosstalk+capacitive+6db&source=bl&ots=hAC2m8JKYl&sig=luJgfRJ50cRzp6fWruW767JaPpo&hl=en&ei=Jo9WS7GwBYj6NYq83N0E&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCYQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=crosstalk capacitive 6db&f=false

or Google something like crosstalk + capacitive + 6db

It's good to question claims/statements but remember I am not selling anything :):)
 
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