Are these the amps of the future

[don maico]

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/t_amps.html

Opinions please

 

[ruadmaa]

The Wave Of Future Audio

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/t_amps.html

Opinions please

In my personal opinion, the days of the big iron core transformer amplifiers are numbered. I'm sure there will always be people willing to pay big bucks for an amplifier that weighs 50 pounds or more but they will be in the minority. It took a while for vacuum tubes to be replaced by transistors but the rapid pace that electronic technology improvement is currently progressing at, I suspect that we are only talking a year or two here.

 

[don maico]

In my personal opinion, the days of the big iron core transformer amplifiers are numbered. I'm sure there will always be people willing to pay big bucks for an amplifier that weighs 50 pounds or more but they will be in the minority. It took a while for vacuum tubes to be replaced by transistors but the rapid pace that electronic technology improvement is currently progressing at, I suspect that we are only talking a year or two here.

Thank you . Even with my limited knowledge I would tend to agree with you although there arew loads of tube/analogue diehards out there. I was one myself untill common sense bit me

this site looks interesting:
http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=26
all stereo I know but bound to affect the AV scene sooner or later

 

[don maico]

class t amp also available here:
http://www.si-technologies.com/frontEnd/cm_productList.jsp#2

 

[Seth=L]

Available, no. They are out of stock. That stinks to, I was going to order one but I don't feel like digging to find it.

 

[ruadmaa]

T Amps

Available, no. They are out of stock. That stinks to, I was going to order one but I don't feel like digging to find it.

T amps are available at: http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/audio/6cd8/ and also Parts Express. Hope these were what you were looking for.

 

[don maico]

Available, no. They are out of stock. That stinks to, I was going to order one but I don't feel like digging to find it.

Presumably they have still got these
http://www.si-technologies.com/frontEnd/cm_productDetail.jsp?productID=35

 

[Seth=L]

I don't think it is as college student friendly on the price IMO.

Thank you ruadmaa for those links, awesome. I will order one soon likely.

 

[Audioholics]

Opinions please

Don,

How about you take all of these requests you have and formulate an actual post that makes sense with budget, room size and intended use. You are spamming our boards with useless posts and links about individual components and no real commentary.

You're coming across as if you are taking surveys on what gear people are familiar with on our site.

 

[don maico]

I am not trying to spam anything, simply fishing for opinions on products I have never come across before . I cant offer comments about things I have no knowledge or understanding of. I am merely interested in the end product, ie music/movie reproduction, and to that end I seek the most cost effective and best sounding items I can afford.The way things work flies straight over my head just as the mechanical characteristics of a motorcar do.My current AV /HIFI gear is very conventional and I cannot offer anything that hasnt been said before .I was set un buying some products based on recommendations I read in here and then someone told me about class T amps and those odd shaped speakers I refered to so I set bout seeing if others knew more about them - hence the links. I apologise if it seems I am spamming but as I said before that is not my intention.
As for room size : 12.5x10.5 ft , budget = speakers and amp about $350 -$400 each in sterling. Both of these I believe I mentioned on another thread .My intentions are to create a stereo room as I already have a an AV one.

 

[Ampdog]

Don,

A little more technical perhaps. The "fully digital" amplifiers I have seen are all of the same type: supplying very high frequency pulse width modulated (PWM) pulses to the loudspeaker. The first problem is that the amplifier/loudspeaker interface (usually a filter) needs to operate such that no deviation from the original signal is generated, which can be a problem - not to go further here. But even if we take that as adequate, one must realise that arriving at PWM is an analogue process, so distortion wise we are not necessarily better off. The only real advantage from what I have read so far is the cooler operation of the switching output stage, a practical factor with high power amplifiers.

As to the elimination of bulky transformers, that is a different matter. Here there are obvious advantages re wieght and regulation. However such a power supply is not necessarily part of a digital amplifier. Both D and A amplifiers can use either a normal or switching power supply.

 

[don maico]

Don,

A little more technical perhaps. The "fully digital" amplifiers I have seen are all of the same type: supplying very high frequency pulse width modulated (PWM) pulses to the loudspeaker. The first problem is that the amplifier/loudspeaker interface (usually a filter) needs to operate such that no deviation from the original signal is generated, which can be a problem - not to go further here. But even if we take that as adequate, one must realise that arriving at PWM is an analogue process, so distortion wise we are not necessarily better off. The only real advantage from what I have read so far is the cooler operation of the switching output stage, a practical factor with high power amplifiers.

As to the elimination of bulky transformers, that is a different matter. Here there are obvious advantages re wieght and regulation. However such a power supply is not necessarily part of a digital amplifier. Both D and A amplifiers can use either a normal or switching power supply.

thank you although I am somewhat lost. In plain English you dont really rate them then.Maybe its too early to make any sound judgements of them but they do seem to get good reviews as in TNT.

 

[GreenJelly]

Their are some "Class-D" amps out already. They are around $1000 and up.

This will take some time for it to develop. The second thing we got to consider is that since most sound signals are already digital, do we move the Digital to Audio to the Amps (requiring SPDIF's).

We will see how these opperate. There is definately a need for a different approach, and an ON/OFF at a super high frequency would be unnoticable, and could produce high amounts of current. However you still have to deal with heat and these devices seem to be more efficent. I still dont see the days of big compacitors as beign an un-needed resources. You simply can not control the AC power without them.

Just my opinion, which is based on my small knowledge of Amps and Audio electronics.

Mike

 

[nbourbaki]

In my personal opinion, the days of the big iron core transformer amplifiers are numbered. I'm sure there will always be people willing to pay big bucks for an amplifier that weighs 50 pounds or more but they will be in the minority. It took a while for vacuum tubes to be replaced by transistors but the rapid pace that electronic technology improvement is currently progressing at, I suspect that we are only talking a year or two here.

People who value high fidelity more than cost, size or convenience will always be in the minority. I've listened to a few of the Class D amps and they still can't touch a first class linear amp, especially in the higher frequencies. I do believe they will take over the low end.

 

[Seth=L]

I remember listening to Sony's ES class D receivers. IMO, they didn't stand up as well as the Denon receivers that cost a few hundred less. I felt the class D amps in the Sony receivers lacked attack, they were kind of slow on the bass.

 

[don maico]

I just ordered a Super t Sonic Impact. thought I'd take the gamble

 

[GreenJelly]

As the ability for the switches grow in frequencies, which is happening, the ability for these amps to be used in high quality settings are becoming a reality.

I talked to my father about this today. He is an electrical engineer, 55 years old, and was building amps and receivers when he was 13. He knows a bit about audio, though he hasnt done much with Amps, Short Wave, FM, or AM receivers in a long time.

Anyways, he told me they been using these by DJ's for years in professional applications. Probably to power the lower end subs. The future is happening because of more and more micro engineering, or even nano-tech if you want. Though that term has allot of stipulations to it.

The D-Class amps should become the best things on the market. Time period for affordable high quality amps seems to be short, but I would assume that if you bought a high quality tube or solid state amp now, that when the thing is old or time to upgrade will be about the same time that these D-Class amps become affordable at high end quality.

 

[nbourbaki]

I was part of the generation that switched from tube amps to solid state. I can remember as a boy listening to a tube amp and being in awe of the warmth of the presentation. When I had the opportunity to buy my first receiver it was a solid state unit. While the tube amps had the best sound, solid state had far greater usability. I just purchased an amp for my home theater in the last six months. I chose a Parasound Halo A51 after listening to the Rotel RB-1092, RB-1091, CI Audio D-200 Monoblocks and the Nuforce Reference 9. The class D amps had a lot going for them and I really was hoping to wind up with one of them but the sound just wasn't complete. The big Parasound linear amp had the sound right. I have high hopes that the class d technology matures to the point that I won't be able to tell the difference at a much better price point.

 

[Sleestack]

I was part of the generation that switched from tube amps to solid state. I can remember as a boy listening to a tube amp and being in awe of the warmth of the presentation. When I had the opportunity to buy my first receiver it was a solid state unit. While the tube amps had the best sound, solid state had far greater usability. I just purchased an amp for my home theater in the last six months. I chose a Parasound Halo A51 after listening to the Rotel RB-1092, RB-1091, CI Audio D-200 Monoblocks and the Nuforce Reference 9. The class D amps had a lot going for them and I really was hoping to wind up with one of them but the sound just wasn't complete. The big Parasound linear amp had the sound right. I have high hopes that the class d technology matures to the point that I won't be able to tell the difference at a much better price point.

That's interesting. I dumped my Parasound A51 and JC-1s and went with 4 Bel Canto Ref. 1000s for my 2.2 setup and 10 channels of TACT BOZ216/2200s in my HT setup. I thought the Parasound amps sounded very brittle, however perhaps my normal listening volume and room conditions favor a a slight attentuation at 10-20kHz. It may be b/c I use room correction, but I have yet to hear any amps in my setups that have sounded better. I have tried everything from Parasound, Meridian, LAMM, Krell, etc. The TACT BOZ amps accept digital input only and the Bel Cantos only accept analog inputs.

 

[Sleestack]

This will take some time for it to develop. The second thing we got to consider is that since most sound signals are already digital, do we move the Digital to Audio to the Amps (requiring SPDIF's).

The TACT BOZ amps already only accept digital input via AES or SPDIF.