Are the new B&W 800 Series D3 Diamond Loudspeakers Their Best Effort Yet?

[PENG]

That's why I would wait for Stereophile to measure the D3. Considering how the 800D2's on-axis & off-axis FR look remarkably similar to the 802D1, it makes me wonder if the D3 is any different.

I just noticed that B&W lists the 802D3's FR as 17Hz-28kHz +/-3dB (1" tweeter, 6" midrange, 8" woofers x 2).

I have one word to say:

R...................I................G...................H....................T

That seems more like what DefTech and Golden Ear would say regarding the FR. How can they get 17Hz @ -3dB from two little 8" woofers in that cabinet?

Frequency "range" is 14Hz-35kHz!

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/800_Series_Diamond/802-D3.html



The 803D3 has two 7" woofers and the FR is 19Hz-28kHz +/-3dB.

How can they get 19Hz @ -3dB from two 7" woofers in that cabinet?

Frequency "range" is 16Hz-35kHz!

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/800_Series_Diamond/803-D3.html

It's physics my friend, you surely know how to calculate the volume of air move per stroke and the amplification obtainable by the box design? They also did not specify at what sound level output so anything is possible. Don't forget the Phil 3 can get pretty low (25-20k +/- 2dB) with just one 8" driver too. I do trust B&W has top notch engineers!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's physics my friend, you surely know how to calculate the volume of air move per stroke and the amplification obtainable by the box design? They also did not specify at what sound level output so anything is possible. Don't forget the Phil 3 can get pretty low (25-20k +/- 2dB) with just one 8" driver too. I do trust B&W has top notch engineers!

I guess we'll find out for sure when Stereophile measures it.

The 802D3 doesn't look bigger than the 800D2 and has smaller woofers (8" vs 10"), so I assume the bass won't be lower & louder.

17Hz @ -3dB from reference level from dual 8" woofers in the 802 cabinet seems optimistic. But if they do measure like that, then I will eat my words. I mean that's probably better bass output than most $100K speakers.

The $50K Status Acoustics with 3 x 10" woofers can only do 20Hz @ -3dB.

The $180K Focal Grande Utopia goes down to 18Hz @ -3dB.

But the 802D3 goes down to 17Hz @ -3dB.

 

[trEs2b]

I put a deposit on the 804D3, should be in 3 weeks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I put a deposit on the 804D3, should be in 3 weeks

1 x 1.0" Diamond tweeter
1 x 5.0" Midrange
2 x 6.5" Woofer

40"H x 9"W x 14"D
73 LBS

 

[BWguy]

Curious if you got your 804d3 and your impressions.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I put a deposit on the 804D3, should be in 3 weeks

Curious if you got your 804d3 and your impressions.

According to this thread, he is looking at the Salk or 802D3. Big jump from the 804 to 802.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/amp-pre-amp-better-sound-quality.103659/page-3

 

[<eargiant]

I think the Bowers & Wilkins Diamonds are excellent. Everybody's ears and tastes are different but they checked all of the boxes that I was looking to fill.

I may be a speaker slut, I enjoy many different speakers. I've had speakers that had a ruler flat response as well as some that didn't. I've had laid back and I've had forward. I've had speaker that were jarringly in your face and others that were too veiled and recessed. I've also had speakers that had similar (almost identical) graphs that sounded completely different from one another.

For my most recent speaker purchase (I've been partial to stand-mounts lately) I was looking to go further in the direction of resolution, clarity and speed while not loosing the musicality, dynamics and emotion of the music. I did not want any of the reverb or lush "hum" in the presentation that some speakers have (you know it when you don't hear it). The 805 D2's fit the bill.

The best term I can use to describe what the 800 Diamond series provides is "Air". These speakers have a way of depicting the air in the sound-stage like few others can. It's uncanny how they can be precise, detailed, specific, revealing and all the while remain as smooth as can be. To me they are a perfect mix between laid back and forward, especially if your pre-amp has a gain adjustment that will allow you to compensate or adjust to the source or recording.

IMO, they are a special speaker line that takes you one step closer.

 

[gene]

I guess we'll find out for sure when Stereophile measures it.

The 802D3 doesn't look bigger than the 800D2 and has smaller woofers (8" vs 10"), so I assume the bass won't be lower & louder.

17Hz @ -3dB from reference level from dual 8" woofers in the 802 cabinet seems optimistic. But if they do measure like that, then I will eat my words. I mean that's probably better bass output than most $100K speakers.

The $50K Status Acoustics with 3 x 10" woofers can only do 20Hz @ -3dB.

The $180K Focal Grande Utopia goes down to 18Hz @ -3dB.

But the 802D3 goes down to 17Hz @ -3dB.

-3dB points are meaningless without SPL level and distortion. Anybody can tune a speaker to play very low, but in doing so you risk bottoming out the woofer and/or overdriving.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

-3dB points are meaningless without SPL level and distortion. Anybody can tune a speaker to play very low, but in doing so you risk bottoming out the woofer and/or overdriving.

These new specs given by B&W and the fact that they just sold their company do not give good impression IMO.

 

[KEW]

I listened to four pairs of 800 Series B&W's a couple of weeks ago.
@TheWarrior and @ATLAudio were with me. Strangely, one of the B&W's far outclassed the others for high frequency sound quality (and it was NOT the most expensive).
We were all generally disappointed with the B&W's - at their price point, they should have easily out-classed the high frequency sound quality of the $1600 (ea) Martin-Logan Motion 60XT which were in the same showroom, but they did not!
If TheWarrior sees this, hopefully he will tell which model had a better high end (he took notes)!

 

[TheWarrior]

The 803 was by far my subjective favorite of the B&W's.

The 803 was the most well balanced, with the 804 and 802 offering and overly forward presentation. The 802 had a very audible, unbalanced, transition between mids/highs that collapsed the sound stage. 804 had incredibly grainy, strained, highs that did not sound anywhere worthy of its price tag.

I think we heard the CM-whatever next to the ML Motion 60XT, I failed to note my thoughts on the CM, but the take home was that I didn't bother to write about it, only the 60XT. Which was also my favorite of ALL the speakers we heard that day, save for the giant wall of sound that came from the Magnepan 3.7. It was a cool experience, the Magnepan, but did add some exaggerated 'esses' to vocals.

 

[billy p]

I know, Seas has a white diamond series that retails for $6800.00 a pair. I know, Dave at Ascend Acoustics was in awe...when given the opportunity to test them out recently. I guess in time we shall see if diamonds truely have more to offer.

 

[TheWarrior]

I know Seas has a white dialmond series that reatils for $6800.00 a pair. I know Dave at Ascend Acoustics was in awe...when given the opportunity to test them out recently. I guess in time we shall see if diamonds truely have more to offer.

It'd be interesting to hear a comparison vs. the Scanspeak D3004 Illuminator! Given the significantly lower cost of beryllium, as well as its manipulation in to a diaphragm.

 

[KEW]

Rigid cones are actually fools gold if you want to cover the speech discrimination band.

I'm not sure I follow what you are saying. Are you saying that rigid cones are problematic for the speech range? If so, could you elaborate? That is counter-intuitive for me.

 

[billy p]

It'd be interesting to hear a comparison vs. the Scanspeak D3004 Illuminator! Given the significantly lower cost of beryllium, as well as its manipulation in to a diaphragm.

I usually don't like to link cross talk between forums but early indications shows it has unlimited energy and dynamics....if properly implement....given his pedigree and work with all types of tweeters over his many years in RD with OEM....I doubt he ever used the adjective "speachless" in describing a new design. I guess time will tell....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We were all generally disappointed with the B&W's - at their price point, they should have easily out-classed the high frequency sound quality of the $1600 Martin-Logan Motion 60XT which were in the same showroom, but they did not!

As a former owner of the 802D2, I would say that I bought them for more than just sound quality.

I didn't think the B&W Diamonds (any models) sound better than many other ugly boxy towers that cost significantly less.

To me the older B&W (802 Matrix, 802 D1, & 802 D2) were VISUAL "art" and a "statement" piece. That is until I stopped caring about such things.

 

[KEW]

Who did you sell your 802's to?

It seems like the pair discussed in this article mysteriously appeared around that time.
Coincidence?
https://medium.com/@StereoStylist/netflix-s-daredevil-kingpin-aka-wilson-fisk-e8ce75ea2c99#.ix24k646q

...the stereo of a power-hungry criminal.

High praise, indeed... because we all know power-hungry criminal masterminds have refined (if somewhat diabolical) tastes!

 

[<eargiant]

As a former owner of the 802D2, I would say that I bought them for more than just sound quality.

I didn't think the B&W Diamonds (any models) sound better than many other ugly boxy towers that cost significantly less.

To me the older B&W (802 Matrix, 802 D1, & 802 D2) were VISUAL "art" and a "statement" piece. That is until I stopped caring about such things.

My experience was exactly the opposite. There was just something about the sound reproduction that made me bring them home. Unlike you, I did think they sounded significantly better but that only means we were probably seeking different things. As for the styling, it only grew on me after I had them home for a while. Like sound preferences, we all have different aesthetic preferences.

Lucky for me that I wanted stand-mounts and not floor-standers because on my last in-store audition my wife came along because we were going somewhere afterwards. She's usually oblivious to all this stuff but when she saw the floor-standers she asked "What are those ugly things with the spaceman helmets?". I could see the look of disapproval on her face. Thank goodness she didn't think the "microphone" on top of the 805's was a big deal.

That was the last audition before I decided to pull the trigger. I haven't regretted it one bit. The more time I have listening to these, the more I appreciate what they can do. But again, it's all about what you are seeking. I remember the very last speaker I auditioned for comparison was the Sonus Faber Olympica I. Within the first minute, I knew they didn't have the sonic presentation I was after with this purchase.

Here's what a Hi-Res audio engineer (that's not afraid to speak his mind and ruffle feathers) thought about the 800 Diamond series.

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5353

In the end, it all depends on what sonic attributes you're looking for in a speaker, there's something out there for everyone.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Who did you sell your 802's to?

I sold my 802D2 to a guy who said he owned a trucking business.

One of his guys came to my house with a big truck filled with thin panel TVs.

The buyer said he was from Canada.