Are DIY cables worth it?

[sthayashi]

Reading around, and coming across Blue Jeans cable's site has made me consider building my own interconnects, like stereo wire, component cabling, etc. The trouble is that I don't know if I can justify the upfront costs. I estimated something along the lines of $200-300 for stripper, cutter, crimper, die and cable (not to mention accessories, like heatshrink, Techflex, and the actual interconnects and boots), plus another $150 for additional dies and cabling.

I asked my wife about it and she responded by saying if I really needed the cable, that I should just order it it as I need it from Blue Jeans cables. It's hard to argue with that kind of logic, but I thought I should get a second opinion (though I may get biased answers asking on a DIY audio forum).

The big problem that I forsee is getting the equipment and never needing it again. The big advantage I see is being able to switch easily from RCA to BNC, if I ever needed to.

What are your thoughts on this?

P.S. This might be a flame war worthy question, but which cabling should I go with, Canare or Belden? Belden seems better, but I'd probably use Canare connectors were I to build my own cables, and Canare goes well with Canare.

 

[Beegowl]

Bakin' yer own

As an audio enthusiast for 30 some years, I've accumulated a small tool box with needle nose pliers, stripper, and couple of razor blades, and what have you. Built my own cables with Home Depot wire and banana plugs from the local computer supplier. I'm not concerned with making the cables look expensive and I don't believe that expensive cables establish a clearer connection to my receiver. Now, you have a couple of decisions to make, in my opinion. You have extra money you want to spend. Do you want the cables to look nice so that when people come over to listen they are duly impressed? Find some you like the looks of, and buy them. Stick with ones recommended on this website. Do you want to have cables that do the job, but don't look like the beautiful cables you can get from cable builders like Blue Jeans, et al. Buy some speaker wire and termination connections from whoever you like, buy a wire stripper and an exacto knife and build your own, saving ?$ and feeling productive. If you've looked around the site at all, you've concluded that expensive cables are not necessary for audiophile quality sound and that given some basic parameters that aren't all that complicated, anyone is hard pressed to hear the difference between cables. My video and digital optical cables are inexpensive Philips cables from Wal-Mart. I have a relatively inexpensive Monster Subwoofer cable. I'm happy.

 

[WoodieB]

Seems like to me you've answered your own question. For the $200-$300 you would spend on all of the doodads, you could get all of the cabling you need from Blue Jeans, professionally made and delivered to your door in a couple of days. I can attest to their excellent service, great product and reasonable prices. All of my future cabling needs will be handled by Blue Jeans.

Not an advertisement, just my personal experience.

 

[sthayashi]

I already have a lot of my own supplies for basic stuff. I'm an EE by trade, so I actually keep needle-nose pliers in my pocket whereever I go . It's actually a Leatherman, so I get a decent enough knife as well.

I've already been rolling my own speaker cables since that's relatively easy. I don't even consider that DIY so much as SOP. My concern with is the trade-off between using normal cabling and using coaxial cables for interconnects, particularly for video, rather than audio (though I use more audio cables than video ones). I'm not entirely sure where the site stands on this issue, not to mention the issue of crimped vs. soldered.

I'm not actually rolling in the dough, but I'm usually willing to put in a minor investment for some nice things. For example, I've purchased an RJ-45 crimper along with ends and boots, total cost, somewhere between $50-100. And in all honesty, I can't remember when the last time I purchased an Ethernet cable since I roll my own all the time. This turned out to be a worthwhile investment.

But the world of A/V cabling is slightly different, hence my question.

One thing I AM thinking about getting is a progessive scan TV, so component cables are in store for me soon.

Prettiness isn't a concern for me, but value and quality are. I've done some reading around the main site, but not ALL that much in the forums.

 

[JohnA]

Huh?

$200-$300 seems WAY too much.

For interconnects and video cable you can use:

RG6 Quad, this runs for about $18 for 100ft. A crimp kit with connectors and stripper runs about $80 (but that includes your crimp tool, connectors, and stripper) or go to Rat Shack and spend $20

For speaker cable you can use:

Sound King cable for about $35 for a 50 foot roll, wire strippers will run from $5 to $25 bucks, and the connectors can run from a few bucks to over $50

You might also might need a soldering iron and solder, which will set you back about $10

So when all is said and done:

For ALL your cable needs, interconnects, "F" interconnects, and speaker cables, you are looking maybe $200 for quality cable and compression fittings not crimp fittings, but that is for ALL your cables.

Just my $.02

 

[sthayashi]

Seems like to me you've answered your own question. For the $200-$300 you would spend on all of the doodads, you could get all of the cabling you need from Blue Jeans, professionally made and delivered to your door in a couple of days. I can attest to their excellent service, great product and reasonable prices. All of my future cabling needs will be handled by Blue Jeans.

Not an advertisement, just my personal experience.

That's pretty much my wife's point. My only thought is that after that initial investment, I could make more cables or cables with different ends for a lot cheaper. Sort of.

$200-$300 seems WAY too much.

For interconnects and video cable you can use:

RG6 Quad, this runs for about $18 for 100ft. A crimp kit with connectors and stripper runs about $80 (but that includes your crimp tool, connectors, and stripper) or go to Rat Shack and spend $20

For speaker cable you can use:

Sound King cable for about $35 for a 50 foot roll, wire strippers will run from $5 to $25 bucks, and the connectors can run from a few bucks to over $50

You might also might need a soldering iron and solder, which will set you back about $10

So when all is said and done:

For ALL your cable needs, interconnects, "F" interconnects, and speaker cables, you are looking maybe $200 for quality cable and compression fittings not crimp fittings, but that is for ALL your cables.

Just my $.02

The issue/question that I have then is this. Should I value Belden or Canare cabling over generic RG-6 quad shielded cabling? FWIW, Belden & Canare run more like $100/100ft, hence the $200-300 estimate. What about Canare connectors over generic connectors? Are there any brands to avoid?

My original thought was basically to recreate what Blue Jeans does, except for myself, rather than to start a company. But this seems like an uneconomical solution for smaller volumes. However, BJC's pricing scheme suggests to me that if I ever need to order more than 2 or 3 cables from them, I'm better off making them myself.

I've already got all the tools necessary for normal wires, but none of the tools necessary for coaxial cables.

 

[guess88]

belden's not a $1 a foot.. nto for the 1694.. their rg6. Check out... www.westlake-electronic.com

 

[nm2285]

i just ordered a bunch of cable (gepco international) from haveinc.com because it had the same exact stats a belden 1694a (which i've also used for DIYs). You really dont need fancy tools to make your own cables. A cable stripper (a basic one), a soldering iron if you use solder connectors, or a crimper if you use crimp connections. I've used both, no preference either way. my dad had all the tools, but i'd estimate the tools i use would be about $12 for a stripper, $20 for a crimper, and dont know how much for a soldering iron.

I did the fancy stuff (techflex and heat shrink) on my first attempt at DIYs, but now i just use the bare wire, connectors, and about 3 inches of heat shrink at each end to help keep them grouped together.

 

[nm2285]

Forgot to add...Belden usually measures slightly better than Canare, but i doubt any of that plays in the audible spectrum. if you're using rg-6 for video, maybe pay a bit mroe attention to the stats.

canare offers some connectors specifically for belden wire (so i saw at westlake) so dont worry about compatibility. of course there are plenty of companies that make connectors for generic sizes of wire (rg-59, rg-6...).

 

[sthayashi]

belden's not a $1 a foot.. nto for the 1694.. their rg6. Check out... www.westlake-electronic.com

Dude, their prices beat out what I WAS checking out, Markertek.com. That makes things MUCH more affordable.

i just ordered a bunch of cable (gepco international) from haveinc.com because it had the same exact stats a belden 1694a (which i've also used for DIYs). You really dont need fancy tools to make your own cables. A cable stripper (a basic one), a soldering iron if you use solder connectors, or a crimper if you use crimp connections. I've used both, no preference either way. my dad had all the tools, but i'd estimate the tools i use would be about $12 for a stripper, $20 for a crimper, and dont know how much for a soldering iron.

See, I'm looking at $60-70 for the the stripper (Canare's TS100E), since I'm bad with precision. It's my failure with precision that would lead me to pursue a crimp or compression based solution. I can solder a connection no problem. Can I do it to pass a signal with minimal LCR? Not on my life.

The crimper I'm looking at is around $20, but the appropriate die for the Canare connectors is between $60-80. So the crimpers alone would cost between $80-100, if I go down this route. Is the quality and reliability worth going down this path?

BTW, I was actually thinking about going with RG-59 for increased flexability, the Belden 1505F. Again, I don't know if Canare is actually better in this regard.

Since the cables can be had for a lot cheaper than I estimated, it's certainly making me inclined to get the necessary tools.

I did just have a rather perverse thought about these coax cables though. I was thinking about using them to pass through electric guitar signals (I play a little), via crimped RCA + RCA->Phono adapter. It would probably make for a fairly clean signal I'd imagine.

 

[mustang_steve]

It's all up to you.

Ther are cheaper alternatives...Ther are some interconnects that are twist-crimp...where you twist the back end of the RCA plug and it clamps down onto the cable...it's not as good as a crimp die would do, but it's great if you don't want to drop $80 on a crimp tool/die set.

Just go looking around. The places I haunt are partsexpress, mcm electronics, and markertek. All of them have good stuff, but mcm makes you search hard for it (MCM isn't really a browsing friendly shop, but their prices and service make up for it)

 

[jaxvon]

I don't think that'd work very well. Guitar signals are high Z and require a special kind of circuit to deal with. It's not like a signal from a component. They need their own preamp that is designed for guitars.

 

[3beanlimit]

There are alternatives to using Canare dies and strippers...If your interested, I could post some links to some ideas.

Also....consider soldering the ends with a quality RCA plug...It's not that hard...Really!

Just takes a bit of practice for most plugs.

 

[sthayashi]

I'd certainly appreciate it. I love to hear about the alternatives.

I'm still wary of soldering, but part of my soldering experience has involved bad joints for audio. In some cases when soldering, the solder would seemingly AVOID the part that was supposed to get soldered. Or more annoyingly, by the time I got one part soldered down and started working on the other conductor, the first one would break away.

 

[oreke]

Belden 1694 vs 5339

While looking at Westlake Electronics website I came across a Belden 5339Q5 at $0.09/ft. This is an RG-6 cable with quad shielding. It seems to have very similar specs to 1694A, which is $0.27/ft. The 1694 is only has two shielding layers.

You can compare the specs at www.belden.com.

Is there a compelling reason to buy the 1694 at three times the price?

 

[xrayeyes]

heat shrink

nm2285

where did you get the heat shrink tubing? is there someplace to purchase the color and legnth you wanted? RadioShack only carries packs with various sizes. what kind did you use?

 

[JoeE SP9]

Parts Express has a variety of shrink tube. You might also want to check John Risch's website. He has a variety of diy cable projects. Also see attached PDF file.
http://www.*****************/

 

[brian32672]

belden's not a $1 a foot.. nto for the 1694.. their rg6. Check out... www.westlake-electronic.com

Wholly crud, Damn thats a super link. Put in my favorites and instantly ordered 140 feet 12g twisted/pvc/cl3 Beldin at .20 a ft. Also ordered 70 ft. of 14g of the same at 0.11 ft.

Shipping was a measily 14.45

Super thanks goes for the link

Now off to buy some new banana plugs...... Found decent ones on eBay 20 of them for 35.00 plus 5.95 shipping. And they are not cheaply made. They screw in from the rear and will actually compress cable coming in.

Thanks again.............

 

[aspaceintime]

my 2 cents...

I had similar issues with build my own or buy. I decided to build my own for a couple reasons: I had a lot of the tools already, I did buy a Steren Crimp tool (BNC, F & RCA) bought Steren connectors too. They have worked out great. I put all this stuff into a tool 10$ tool box from Home Depot. I have enough cable to make adjustments as needed. Like most people, I'm always fidgeting with stuff. Also want to upgrade in the and may rearrange basement too. Another reason is my kids are getting into the mode and when they need stuff, it's something we can do together. My advise, build em youself, with a little planning & patience, you will be better off.

 

[3beanlimit]

Wow....I seemed to have forgotten about this thread.

Sorry about that, sthayashi.

Ok after a bit of experimenting and garnering info from around the net...here's a break down on using Canare ends and the various die's and ends you need for Belden and Canare cable. Some of the info for suggestions on what wire for digital cable and for interconnects was found on Blue Jeans site as well as Jon Risch's site. Yes...I already know he has his detractors here....to bad, as I feel he does contribute to the audio world in a way that the naysayers don't.

Anyway.....IF you just feel you CAN'T solder...(it's really not that hard..really!) or you just like the looks of the crimp on ends...(Canare ends really ARE nice!) then here's some info on where to get the tools and ends.


First off the handle. You can use the Parts Express handle and save a wad...Remember to increase the crimp squeeze by resetting the dial to about it's third setting on the handle. This is about right for the two different dies if your going to use multiple cables....

www.***************** Part number 360-680 for the handle.

The dies...You can save some money by using the Paladin dies with the Parts Express handle.

Paladin
Die number 2649 and number 2657

Westlake Electronics listed above, sells both dies. This company has GREAT service...

The rest of my post is just copied and pasted from a hoge poge of things I've posted before....

Beldon Cable 89259
Use Canare RCAP-C4F Paladin
Die number 2649


Belden Cable 1505f for flexible digital cables.
Use Canare RCAP-c42 Paladin
Die number 2649

Belden Cable 1694a and 1695a for digital cables. Probably better than 1505 f but not flexible.
Use Canare RCAP-C53 Paladin die # PA2657

For Canare LV77S Great for sub cables as it's a double shield and very flexible.
Canare RCAP-C77 Paladin
Die number 2649

For Canare L-5CFB RG6 Paladin Die number 2649 Great for digital cables.
RCAP-C5F

Beldon 1694a for digital is what's recommended but I've done several with Canare LV77-s with what I view as great results.

I have some friends who live throughout the midwest and east coast who I've make a few cables for who insist on Beldon Mic cable. This stuff sells by cents for a foot of it. They all have some very exotic equipment and swear by this cable. My listening test are that yes...it's as good as what's listed above but you will have to solder ends on it.

Beldon 8451. This is a shielded design and very small.....
Again, you don't have to crimp this cable as it'll solder just as easily but the RCA ends will probably cost you more than the Canare ends..

Dressing them up? Cable Organizer has tons of different Tech Flex in colors and strips. They also carry a lot of different types and colors of shrink tubes. Of course none of the dressing is needed unless you have cables showing and want to dress them for the WAF.....

I've also been playing around with a couple of different types of silver interconnects...The Van Haus recipe being one of them. It's a NICE interconnect but isn't a very easy one to make.