Are Crown amps worth it vs Emotiva? (or other suggestions)

[Sycraft]

I'm looking at substantially shuffling my audio setup and it is going to end up necessitating 4 channels of stand-alone amplification. So my thought was an Emotiva XPA-5 for $1000. Looks like a good amp, the AudioPrecision graphs look good, etc. However some people here seem to like Crown amps and that would be a consideration, particularly since it'll be fed from a balanced soundcard. So the Crown CT 475 would be an option as well. It is more in line with the power I need, since this is a low power application (speakers are very close). However it is a little more expensive, about $1080, and I am not really a fan of the wiring block style of hookup. Also it seems a bit silly to me to pay a good deal more for a lot less power.

So, is there a good reason to get the Crown instead of the Emotiva? Should I be looking at another brand?

For those who need information about the setup it will be driving 4 surround bookshelf speakers in close proximity to me, 5 feet or less. Speakers are 8-ohm nominal, 6-ohms minimum, 82.5dB/watt/meter efficiency.

 

[j_garcia]

For surrounds, Crown should be fine. Emo makes some good amps too. My surrounds are in close proximity too so I use an Emo X-A100 and it has been doing fine for over two years like that. I was running them with bigger amps before and found that they really didn't need it. Isn't like I don't listen loud either

 

[KEW]

The Crown CT475 seems to be a singularly poor value among Crown amps!
I suspect the cost reflects putting 4 channels of amplification into a 1-3/4" tall format!
The other standout aspect of this amp is that it is stable down to 2 ohms. That is a fair amount of current and the associated cooling in such a slim package likely requires some clever design and perhaps some unique cooling components.
I'm not sure the Emotiva could claim 2 ohm stability!

But the recommendation of Crown amps comes more from products like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Crown-DriveCore-XLS1500-Power-Amplifier/dp/B003HZV2JS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_267_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=09NE9M8N4JMG3KRG86VV&dpID=41yInBXv17L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_

Two of these would cost $400 and give you 4 channels of 300 watts per channel.
They have XLS, 1/4", and RCA inputs and include a built-in crossover, which provides good versatility.
The fans are variable speed and have a great reputation for not making much noise.
Two of these stacked would still not be so tall as the Emotiva XPA-5. If you are so inclined to, you can save 60% or $600 by buying two Crown XLS-1500's instead of the XPA-5.

If you have reservations about buying a pro audio amp, this $600 amp from Outlaw is probably a much better fit for your needs:
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/5000.html

http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000

 

[Sycraft]

No reservations about buying pro, it'll be a pro soundcard feeding them and thus all things being equal balanced inputs would be nice. The reason I was wondering was I came across another thread on here some time ago with someone talking up Crown amps over HT amps as a cheap option but when I looked at that amp, it was more than the Emotiva so I was surprised.

Those other linked amps are much cheaper for sure. I dunno about the fans though. While I'm sure they aren't obnoxious, I have a very quiet room (the computer lives outside the room) and I'd like to keep it that way. I could see about putting the amps out with the computer, but I don't know that the conduit is big enough for all the cables.

The Outlaw might be a possibility and I never mind saving money. I'd have to get a spec sheet from them though, their page is light on details.

 

[KEW]

No reservations about buying pro, it'll be a pro soundcard feeding them and thus all things being equal balanced inputs would be nice. The reason I was wondering was I came across another thread on here some time ago with someone talking up Crown amps over HT amps as a cheap option but when I looked at that amp, it was more than the Emotiva so I was surprised.

Those other linked amps are much cheaper for sure. I dunno about the fans though. While I'm sure they aren't obnoxious, I have a very quiet room (the computer lives outside the room) and I'd like to keep it that way. I could see about putting the amps out with the computer, but I don't know that the conduit is big enough for all the cables.

The Outlaw might be a possibility and I never mind saving money. I'd have to get a spec sheet from them though, their page is light on details.

I'm not sure what specifications you are looking for; but on the Outlaw page, beneath the price is a list of specs that rivals what I usually see. Note that power ratings are for all five channels driven simultaneously!:

Specifications

Power output: 120 watts RMS x 5 (all channels driven simultaneously into 8 ohms from 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than 0.02% total harmonic distortion, A-weight filter). 180 watts RMS x 5 (all channels driven simultaneously into 4 ohms from 20 Hz to 20 kHz with less than 0.03% total harmonic distortion, A-weight filter)

Frequency Response: 20Hz -20kHz +/- 0.5 dB at rated
output (120W)

Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): Less than 0.02% at rated output (120W), all frequencies, less than 0.01% at 1kHz

Intermodulation Distortion (IMD): Less than 0.05% from 250mV to output full rated output (120W)

Filter Capacitance: Four 6,800 μF Capacitors per Channel

Number of Output Devices: 4 per channel

Power Bandwidth: 5Hz - 54kHz +0/-3 dB

Damping Factor: Greater than 105 from 10Hz to 400Hz

Crosstalk: Greater than -70dB from 20Hz – 20kHz

Gain: Voltage gain of 29dB

Input Impedance: 40k ohms

Input Sensitivity: 1.00 Volt

Remote Trigger Voltage: 9 - 24 Volts DC at 5 milliamperes or greater

Power requirements: 120VAC, ±3%, 50Hz - 60Hz

Power consumption: 1,500 watts (maximum)

Dimensions including feet (H x W x D): 6.0" x 17.0" x 16.75"

Weight: 50 (lbs)

Also, the Audioholics review I linked has independent measurements which is always a great thing!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I never heard the fans come on with the Crown XLS2500 when I had them.

No noise from more than 12" away.

I actually put 3 X 120 mm USB fans atop my Denon AVP-A1 and Denon 3312. So I think having QUIET fans is a very GOOD thing, not bad. If you are only using 1-10W most of the time, the amp will remain cool and the fans will never even come on. If you are really pushing the amps to 100W+, then turning on those quiet fans is a blessing.

For any amplification (main or surround), I also think the Crown XLS1500 would be great.

 

[Sycraft]

Noise was the main thing missing, which it looks like the Audioholics link has. I didn't notice that the second link was to this site, so I didn't look at it ><. It's stats looks acceptable. I worry about it, perhaps more than I should, because of experiences with amps hissing and my complete intolerance for any audible tweeter hiss.

More info on what I'm doing, if you are interested: I have a 7.1 computer sound system (yes I'm nuts) fed via HDMI to a Denon 3808CI. This drives the 4 surround bookshelf speakers and the center, and a Rotel RB1050 drives the two tower front speakers. I wish to change this setup over to have active monitors (Event Opals in particular) in front and an RME Fireface as the source. That will necessitate an amp for the remaining passive speakers, of course.

The reason I'm a bit skittish about noise is evident in the power amp for the front channel: With the receiver driving the tower speakers directly, there was tweeter hiss at higher volume settings. Ya you could only hear it when there was no sound, of course, but it bothered me to no end. With the amp in line (I already owned said amp for an earlier setup) it stopped hissing. Also I tired Presonus Secptre speakers as possibilities for the front monitor speakers and those things hissed audibly, even with no input hooked up.

So I want whatever ends up powering the surrounds to be nice n' quiet and stay out of the way .

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

A lot amps have hiss sound if your ears are inches away from the tweeter. That includes Emotiva. I've heard hiss sounds from Classe amps as well. The Crown amps have hiss sound too.

All my ATI amps are dead silent - no hiss at all.

 

[Sycraft]

I'd love to get ATI amps but the cost is just out of line with the use case. I'd sooner just get more active monitors if I were going to spend that much money.

Basically the amps just have to be silent enough that I can't hear the hiss in my seat.

 

[jinjuku]

I dunno about the fans though.

I own that amp. It is dead silent.

 

[ski2xblack]

Hiss typically results from high gain amps amplifying upstream noise. The Crowns have input sensitivity, aka gain controls. Set up correctly, they should produce zero audible hiss. Emos conspicuously lack gain controls, although I'm not sure what they're doing lately. In the past their amps had very high fixed gain (e.g. 32 dbw vs the more common for consumer amps 29 dbw).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'd love to get ATI amps but the cost is just out of line with the use case. I'd sooner just get more active monitors if I were going to spend that much money.

Basically the amps just have to be silent enough that I can't hear the hiss in my seat.

You won't hear hiss from more than 24 inches away with the Crown XLS amps.

 

[jinjuku]

Properly setup and fed line level signal they are expecting there should be anything from zero hiss to just barely able to hear it from an inch away.

 

[slipperybidness]

Noise was the main thing missing, which it looks like the Audioholics link has. I didn't notice that the second link was to this site, so I didn't look at it ><. It's stats looks acceptable. I worry about it, perhaps more than I should, because of experiences with amps hissing and my complete intolerance for any audible tweeter hiss.

More info on what I'm doing, if you are interested: I have a 7.1 computer sound system (yes I'm nuts) fed via HDMI to a Denon 3808CI. This drives the 4 surround bookshelf speakers and the center, and a Rotel RB1050 drives the two tower front speakers. I wish to change this setup over to have active monitors (Event Opals in particular) in front and an RME Fireface as the source. That will necessitate an amp for the remaining passive speakers, of course.

The reason I'm a bit skittish about noise is evident in the power amp for the front channel: With the receiver driving the tower speakers directly, there was tweeter hiss at higher volume settings. Ya you could only hear it when there was no sound, of course, but it bothered me to no end. With the amp in line (I already owned said amp for an earlier setup) it stopped hissing. Also I tired Presonus Secptre speakers as possibilities for the front monitor speakers and those things hissed audibly, even with no input hooked up.

So I want whatever ends up powering the surrounds to be nice n' quiet and stay out of the way .

IME, tweeter hiss is related to too much gain.

 

[slipperybidness]

Hiss typically results from high gain amps amplifying upstream noise. The Crowns have input sensitivity, aka gain controls. Set up correctly, they should produce zero audible hiss. Emos conspicuously lack gain controls, although I'm not sure what they're doing lately. In the past their amps had very high fixed gain (e.g. 32 dbw vs the more common for consumer amps 29 dbw).

You nailed it! I gave my brief post before I read yours on the topic.

 

[Sycraft]

I'll have to give one of the two channel Crown amps a test then. Amazon carries them so if I decide I don't like it, they can always go back. I'm drawn to the better specs of the Emotiva but a Class D amp would be really nice to keep heat in the room down, and of course saving money is always great.

 

[canelli]

When I tried the XLS amp with an older receiver, the output voltage of the Pioneer appeared to be too low for the pro amplifier. I tried the same XLS with a newer Denon and had no issues.

I felt having the extra head room of power on the XLS amplifier made a difference (maybe I just wanted it to make a difference). Also, I never heard the fans of the XLS. I ended up returning the XLS since I bought it to pair with the older Pioneer and already had a competent amplified paired with the Denon.

 

[Sycraft]

Output voltage won't be an issue, the Fireface has configurable outputs that can be set to -10dBV, +4dBu and High Gain. Those correspond to +2dBV, +13dBu and +19dBu output at full scale according to their docs. Should be able to drive anything without much issue.

 

[KEW]

Just an FYI.
Most places have sold out of the discounted XLS-2000, but Musician's Friend still has them for $250.
I wanted to point it out in case you had not noticed. No particular reason to recommend over the XLS-1500 - your choice of money or power. Both the 1500 and 2000 are fantastic values. The XLS-2500 is comparatively pricey at $350.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/crown-xls2000-drivecore-series-power-amp?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=Cj0KEQjwvo6wBRCG3Zv92ZSLlIYBEiQA5PLVAmBYiFOD7b-BhLpRyoS8db8lFLXyoWWUcdhwwi77oCwaAi648P8HAQ&kwid=productads-plaid^57302083147-sku^485461000000000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^53736456387

 

[Sycraft]

The 1500 is waaaaay more than sufficient. The speakers are rated to about 150 watts but as close as they are to my head, I doubt more than 50 would ever be called for, even at reference levels. I don't tend to use it that loud either, usually I'm playing things at -30.