Apple sources into integrated amps.

C

Craig klomparens

Audiophyte
Hi: I've been away from audio for a long time. I'm in the market for a small 2 channel stereo system. I would like to have the option of using Apple products, such as an iPad, as a source sometimes. Is this possible with integrated amps these days? I was looking at a Yamaha a S801 BL or Marantz PM-8005 but am open to others.
I tried to give links to these amps but I can't post links until I have 10 posts.


Thank You!
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Yamaha A-S501SL (more than sufficient for small system) plus one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/APPLE-AIRPORT-EXPRESS-A1084-54-Mbps-Wireless-G-Router-M9470LL-A-w-Box-CD-Booklet-/361475889618?hash=item5429a459d2:g:0uwAAOSwGotWpVmT

add a cheap cable like this one:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=1556
-----------------
Total: Enjoy high quality wireless playback from your idevices

my 2c: Don't overspend on electronics - instead consider better speakers.
These would give mile start to many speakers cost 5x:
http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html
But if you have healthier budget - there even better options... Hard to recommend specific without knowing it.
 
C

Craig klomparens

Audiophyte
Thank You! I am taking a close look at the Yamaha you suggested but I assume I can add the Airport Express to any integrated amp including the ones I mentioned??

I'll check out those speakers too. I was looking at SVS Ultra Bookshelf which go for 1k (which I can't link to either.)

The stuff I've listed is around 2k so that is about the budget I guess (speakers and Integrated amp.)

Its primarily for music but it will hooked up to a TV too. I have a good old cd player but want the option of running from an Apple based source.

Any further thought appreciated.

Thanks again.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Thank You! I am taking a close look at the Yamaha you suggested but I assume I can add the Airport Express to any integrated amp including the ones I mentioned??
Yes - You can use 3.5mm analog to RCA to connect to basically anything with any analog inputs, or use cable I've linked to make a digital (optical) connection.

I'll check out those speakers too. I was looking at SVS Ultra Bookshelf which go for 1k (which I can't link to either.)

The stuff I've listed is around 2k so that is about the budget I guess (speakers and Integrated amp.)
Any further thought appreciated.
Thanks again.
Like I said 80w yamaha model I mentioned above would suffice plenty. It's actually quite underrated and push some seriously hard to drive speakers

so it would leave about 1.5k budget for speakers is excellent one and there some great speaker available.
SVS Ultra are not a bad choice - many good review but I think you could do better than that.

My suggestions for speakers:
If you haven't checked out these : you definitely should:
http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2/srm2.html
http://www.salksound.com/wow1 - home.htm
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes - You can use 3.5mm analog to RCA to connect to basically anything with any analog inputs, or use cable I've linked to make a digital (optical) connection.



Like I said 80w yamaha model I mentioned above would suffice plenty. It's actually quite underrated and push some seriously hard to drive speakers

so it would leave about 1.5k budget for speakers is excellent one and there some great speaker available.
SVS Ultra are not a bad choice - many good review but I think you could do better than that.

My suggestions for speakers:
If you haven't checked out these : you definitely should:
http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2/srm2.html
http://www.salksound.com/wow1 - home.htm
I don't recommend the SVS bookshelves. SVS are primarily subwoofer manufacturers, and they want you to use one. The 3 db point is 100 Hz and they are 24 db down by 50 Hz. That speaker will sound lean without a sub. The other speakers all give at least an octave of bass extension compared to the SVS.

There is one caveat to this. I suspect because of the lack of bass extension the SVS will play louder.

However, you are picking an integrated amp and there is no good way to add a sub.

I can tell you that if a speaker has an F3 close to the high forty HZ mark it will not sound lean.

As F3 go above 60 Hz they start sounding lean, and as it goes above 80 Hz they rapidly start sounding very lean.

The reason is simple most music is in the range above 40 Hz, and if a speaker has an F3 around 50 Hz it will have useful output down to the 42 to 44 Hz range and often a bit below that.

I would say the other suggestions are a much better bet in your price range, especially the Salks. That speaker has the highest quality bass/mid unit by far of all of them. I have heard some Salk speaker and I think they are well engineered. The bass mid is by far the most important driver. I don't think there is anything very special about ribbon tweeters in fact the reverse. Dome types have the lesser distortion at equivalent outputs. I think good soft dome tweeters are very hard to beat.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
The philamonitors by Dennis Murphy do reach a bit lower than salk wow1, granted at cost of larger box. Also worth to keep in mind that Dennis and Jim Salk worked (and still do) together on many products.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
The philamonitors by Dennis Murphy do reach a bit lower than salk wow1, granted at cost of larger box. Also worth to keep in mind that Dennis and Jim Salk worked (and still do) together on many products.
The Affordable Accuracy Monitors by Philharmonic Audio will definitely outperform the SVS Ultra's in the bass department, but the Ultra's do have a very revealing aluminum tweeter that will articulate a lot more details of shimmering highs and sung crescendo's.
 
C

Craig klomparens

Audiophyte
Thanks for the speaker recommendations they all look interesting.

I wouldn't mind adding a sub if I had to. TLS (or others,) Why is there no good way to add a sub with an integrated amp? I haven't had long enough time to review the other amps mentioned but at least the Yamaha s801 has a sub out. I realize this doesn't mean it will sound good. The review of S801 here notes:

"The subwoofer output does NOT have independent volume control and has a fixed 2nd order Low Pass Filter (LPF) response just shy of 100Hz. In my setup, I dialed the internal crossover of my sub down to about 60Hz and was able to achieve a great blend with my speakers, which were running full range. As long as you select a crossover frequency about 20Hz away from the built-in Yamaha one, you won't run into the deleterious effects of uneven frequency response near the crossover point that can happen in the pass band when cascading two filters at the same crossover frequency."

Is the integration with the mains going to be a sloppy mess?

Thanks!
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Just route the output to sub high level inputs first and use xover in sub. Unfortunately integrated amps with proper bass management are as common sight as unicorns
 
J

Josuah

Senior Audioholic
There are a bunch of "network" or "streaming" integrated amps that may give you better results as compared to using an AirPort Express. I was using an AirPort Express for a while but had some unreliable transmission issues with it, even connected wired. After I switched over to a Pioneer Elite N50 for AirPlay things have been much better.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The Affordable Accuracy Monitors by Philharmonic Audio will definitely outperform the SVS Ultra's in the bass department, but the Ultra's do have a very revealing aluminum tweeter that will articulate a lot more details of shimmering highs and sung crescendo's.
Absolute nonsense. Soft domes shimmer just as much as metal ones. Of all dome materials for tweeters I like aluminum the least. It breaks up just at the end of the audible range if you are lucky. This gives a false shimmer actually. At high frequencies you are much better off with controlled break up, than sudden break up, unless you can push the break up well north of the audible range.

This is that SVS tweeter.


A good soft dome tweeter.

 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for the speaker recommendations they all look interesting.

I wouldn't mind adding a sub if I had to. TLS (or others,) Why is there no good way to add a sub with an integrated amp? I haven't had long enough time to review the other amps mentioned but at least the Yamaha s801 has a sub out. I realize this doesn't mean it will sound good. The review of S801 here notes:

"The subwoofer output does NOT have independent volume control and has a fixed 2nd order Low Pass Filter (LPF) response just shy of 100Hz. In my setup, I dialed the internal crossover of my sub down to about 60Hz and was able to achieve a great blend with my speakers, which were running full range. As long as you select a crossover frequency about 20Hz away from the built-in Yamaha one, you won't run into the deleterious effects of uneven frequency response near the crossover point that can happen in the pass band when cascading two filters at the same crossover frequency."

Is the integration with the mains going to be a sloppy mess?

Thanks!
It might and it might not be. However using a sub without proper bass management is difficult to predict. It all comes down to a lot of luck then. At least the Yamaha does have a sub line out but no means to cut the bass out of the bookshelves. Then it all depends on your listening habits. Bass management off loads the bass driver in small speaker. If your volume demands are moderate then this is not an issue as a rule.

The motor system in the SEAS Excel driver in the Salk speaker is going to be by far the most capable of all the drivers in the speakers under consideration.

If you want full bass management, then receivers offer it. However even more flexible is to have a separate pre and power amp and then interpose an electronic crossover between the pre amp and power amp. This will probably get you over budget.

If you want to keep it simple then use speakers with a good enough bass response that a sub is not essential.

Unless you like high volumes, play a lot of pipe organ music or a diet of rock music, then you will be fine without a sub.

If you are planning to use the system for a lot of movie watching, then getting a device with proper bass management and dedicated LFE output, would be best.

So to really answer your question then you need to advise us on how loud you intend to play the rig, and what you intend to play through it.

Having been an audio only guy for fifty years and then really getting into AV 10 years ago, I have to say I really like the marriage of good audio and video. I now think that pretty much all systems should now be AV.

Having said that, it does mean that you have to approach audio in a somewhat different fashion then we did prior to the AV revolution. This revolution has changed the demands and expectations of the audio part of the system.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Absolute nonsense. Soft domes shimmer just as much as metal ones. Of all dome materials for tweeters I like aluminum the least. It breaks up just at the end of the audible range if you are lucky. This gives a false shimmer actually. At high frequencies you are much better off with controlled break up, than sudden break up, unless you can push the break up well north of the audible range.

In most situations you're absolutely right. But having tested both the AA and Ultra in my room, the Ultra distinctly had more detail than the soft dome of the AA.

Believe me, I had to really dig to find faults in the AA!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
In most situations you're absolutely right. But having tested both the AA and Ultra in my room, the Ultra distinctly had more detail than the soft dome of the AA.

Believe me, I had to really dig to find faults in the AA!
You are probably hearing the artificial fizz of the cone break up. That tweeter cone in the SVS is breaking up in the audio band.

The AA uses a tweeter that costs just under $20.00. It is really pretty good, but it is about 2.5db down below 6 KHz. It does absolutely nothing nasty though.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I would pass on the AirPort Express- it's old and what Apple calls a 'legacy' product and they no longer have any updates for it. Also, it doesn't work well with the newer operating systems, like Win7 and above. I would recommend the AppleTV if the equipment will be near an AV system so it can perform double duty. While it doesn't have an analog output, it's easier to use, works with networks above 802.11g and the last version is selling for $69 now.

I just saw a new item on the Parts Express site for streaming that can be set up and operated similarly to Sonos and Heos- it can be a stand-alone streamer or part of a whole-house system. No idea of the quality, but it might be a good alternative.

If you don't have the integrated amp at this time, I would look for one that does more of what you want without the need to add things externally (aside from the EQ/bass management/crossover), assuming it has pre out/power amp in or a processor loop.
 
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