Apple Lossless kbps question

[Jason Lopez]

If 320kbps is considered lossless, why are Apple lossless kbps so much higher? When I import cd's as Apple lossless the kbps are from 500 to over 1000.

 

[Adam]

Hi, Jason. I don't consider 320kbps to be lossless (it's darn close on any audio system that I use, though). So, something that is truly "lossless" will have a higher bitrate.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Jason,

I think you might be confusing AAC with Apple Lossless. They are not the same. AAC is a lossy compression like MP3, but a better compression scheme than mp3 when compared bit rate for bit rate. With Apple Lossless you don't set a bitrate. It takes the full quality audio file and compresses it, but returns it to full quality when playing it back.

It works similar to MLP or Packed Pulse Code Modulation in that nothing is removed. Of course they are also bigger files than AAC or mp3. I don't care what anybody says 320kbps AAC or MP3 does not sound as good as full quality CD audio when using a good quality recording. Fine for an ipod, car or other music device but not good enough for critical listening.

I hope that clears things up for you.

 

[corey]

320kbps AAC or MP3 does not sound as good as full quality CD audio when using a good quality recording. Fine for an ipod, car or other music device but not good enough for critical listening.

I hope that clears things up for you.

Do you know of any blind test that confirms your opinion? I believe that there are some blind tests that refute it.

 

[fast1]

blind tests? what are blind tests?

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Do you know of any blind test that confirms your opinion? I believe that there are some blind tests that refute it.

I don't really need a blind test for that. I have tried it many times. There is a very noticeable difference, and my hearing is shot above 13k.

 

[captiankirk28]

I don't really need a blind test for that. I have tried it many times. There is a very noticeable difference, and my hearing is shot above 13k.

I can tell the diff easy it is like night and day. I never used to pay attention before i got into this hobbie though. I will not even listen to MP3 anymore on my home system.

 

[ErnieM]

True lossless

I rip my CDs at true lossless bitrates which range from 800 to 1150 kilobytes per second.

I CAN tell the difference on a decent system between MP 3 and lossless -even in my car !

 

[Shock]

I've been told I have exceptional hearing, and I personally cannot tell any major differences between 320 and a lossless rip or playing directly from disc. Although all my critical listening is done using my computer really, and nearly everything is ripped at 320 just to save space.

Are you guys all supermen or something? Oh lordy I hope you can't hear me at night.

An exceptionally quiet room is the most important part of enjoying your system in my opinion.

 

[corey]

blind tests? what are blind tests?

A blind test is where you don't know which is which, when you're testing the samples. A blind test of colas would be if I gave a couple of un-marked cups of cola & asked which one you liked best. A sighted test of colas would be if you watched me pour some Coke into the left cup & some Pepsi into the right cup.

Another way to do it would be to pour Coke into both cups. In a blind test you'd likely get a 50/50 split; but if you labeled the test cups Coke & Pepsi your test results would skew towards Pepsi if you gave the test to people that usually drank Pepsi.

People have done blind test of compressed formats vs. uncompressed formats. You can see some results here.

You can also do your own tests. Rip a track from a good CD with a good encoder (LAME) at various bit rates. Then burn a regular audio CD with the different bit rate versions of the track & include the original wav file.

Until someone can point me to a blind test that finds a difference between 320kbps mp3s and wavs, I'll consider it just an audio myth, like exotic cables, Brilliant Pebbles, and Clever Little Clocks.

 

[sholling]

Do you know of any blind test that confirms your opinion? I believe that there are some blind tests that refute it.

I've seen some of the blind tests on TV and in each case the test was done using cheap to mediocre gear. I have no doubt that a critical listener listening to detailed music and using good speakers or headphones will hear an audible difference. You'll note that a critical listener using good gear will often hear an audible loss of quality going from LP to CD.

I also have no doubt that someone listing to Chickenfoot through $75 cans will be mystified that anybody can hear any difference between the MP3 and the CD. Please note that this statement is not a reflection or appraisal of you or your gear nor is it meant to disparage Chickenfoot - it's just a general observation of the general public and these types of tests. And I think that's all they are meant to prove - that most people won't hear a difference with a normal car audio system, HTIB, or $75 cans.