Aperion Bravus II 12D vs. Power Sound XS15

[jfalek]

After looking and posting questions (thank you to all, especially shadyJ) about subwoofers for the past several days (and nights), I reviewed my choices with my wife and found that I had left off the "aesthetics" factor. Silly me - after almost 25 years of marriage, I should have known better. So, we dismissed the Outlaw LFM1-EX and Hsu VTF-3 MK4 options. Cylinders were a non-starter. As with most things, my price point had to go up from $600 to $900.

So, I am off to find something that could handle 3000 cu feet for 75% HT and 25% music, but does not look like a 2 foot black cube in the corner. I have found two
<pre>
Aperion Bravus II 12D 17" x 15.5" x 15.5 $899
Power Sound XS15 19.5 x 18.5 x 20.75 $749
</pre>
I have read the reviews and they both will probably handle my needs. However, as a neophyte, I don't always know how to translate the reviews into reality!

Any thoughts on these two systems and their capabilities?
Any recommendations on other systems within the $900 price point?

Thank you,
James

 

[templemaners]

So, I am off to find something that could handle 3000 cu feet for 75% HT and 25% music, but does not look like a 2 foot black cube in the corner. I have found two
<pre>
Aperion Bravus II 12D 17" x 15.5" x 15.5 $899
Power Sound XS15 19.5 x 18.5 x 20.75 $749
</pre>

I'm confused - you want something that does not look like a 2 foot black cube in the corner, but then you pick an XS15:

and a Bravus II 12D:

What do you call those then???

So is the issue the size or the appearance (or a combination of both)? You can get the VTF-3 MK4's in Rosenut veener you know...

 

[shadyJ]

I would expect the XS15 to perform roughly the same as the XV15, perhaps minus a couple db, until you get down to the mid 30 hz area where it will just roll down at a straight diagonal slope instead of plateauing off at 16 hz and then dropping off sharply as the XV15 does. All together I would expect the XS15 to be similar to the Bravus, except maybe a bit more mid bass output. This means decent mid bass output and not a whole lot of deep bass output but some deep bass. The Bravus might be perceived to have more deep bass because it will likely have a flatter frequency response down to a lower frequency than the XS15.

 

[agarwalro]

4x EMP 1010i $300 each for Cyber Monday Sale.

 

[jfalek]

I'm confused - you want something that does not look like a 2 foot black cube in the corner, but then you pick an XS15 and a Bravus II 12D...What do you call those then???

So is the issue the size or the appearance (or a combination of both)? You can get the VTF-3 MK4's in Rosenut veener you know...

I apologize for the poor explanation. You are right...kinda. Yet, they are not 2 foot cubes, but 1.5 foot cubes which make a difference to my wife's sense of aesthetics. What I want is to do is to

• get my first subwoofer that would enable me to understand the joy that many of you seem to have
• continue to have a happy wife

After my research, I had decided to get an Outlaw LFM1-EX or a Hsu VTF-3 MK4. However, when my wife saw the pictures, she viewed them both as giant, ugly boxes and she did not want them in our house. I mean no offense to anyone else's sense of taste by that comment. Rather - that is just the constraint of my situation. Between my wife and getting a new subwoofer, there is no contest - so, I need to find a compromise.

You are correct that Aperion and Power Sound are still very boxy - however, they are not as giant. Just to be clear - neither subwoofer is "attractive" to her, rather, they both are less "unattractive" than the other options and she is "OK" about having either one brought in the house. My goal is to get a sub that works well in my space (auditorily) and that does not offend her sense of style.

Furthermore, this will be our first subwoofer. A year from now, if our family actually starts watching movies with the stereo (and sub), then the appreciation of having a box in the corner may grow. However, there is also the chance (I have to begrudgingly have to admit), that we may not be using the stereo to watch movies.

So, again, I must ask - any experience with either one? Recommendations of one or the other? Recommendations of others to consider?

Thank you,
James

 

[jfalek]

I would expect the XS15 to perform roughly the same as the XV15, perhaps minus a couple db, until you get down to the mid 30 hz area where it will just roll down at a straight diagonal slope instead of plateauing off at 16 hz and then dropping off sharply as the XV15 does. All together I would expect the XS15 to be similar to the Bravus, except maybe a bit more mid bass output. This means decent mid bass output and not a whole lot of deep bass output but some deep bass. The Bravus might be perceived to have more deep bass because it will likely have a flatter frequency response down to a lower frequency than the XS15.

Do you think that the XS15 would have the power (SPL?) for my 3000 cu ft room? At one point, I was going to go with the VTF-2 MK4 which has a smaller footprint (20.5 x 15 x 22), but I did was concerned about it having the power (I am sure that this is not the correct term - so, please correct me) and it would be straining (again, is the right term?).

Thank you again...and again

 

[shadyJ]

I don't think the VTF2 would be too far behind either one in overall output, and would certainly have more deep bass than either one. That same is true of the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, which might have slightly more output than the VTF2.

 

[templemaners]

I apologize for the poor explanation. You are right...kinda. Yet, they are not 2 foot cubes, but 1.5 foot cubes which make a difference to my wife's sense of aesthetics. What I want is to do is to

• get my first subwoofer that would enable me to understand the joy that many of you seem to have
• continue to have a happy wife

After my research, I had decided to get an Outlaw LFM1-EX or a Hsu VTF-3 MK4. However, when my wife saw the pictures, she viewed them both as giant, ugly boxes and she did not want them in our house. I mean no offense to anyone else's sense of taste by that comment. Rather - that is just the constraint of my situation. Between my wife and getting a new subwoofer, there is no contest - so, I need to find a compromise.

You are correct that Aperion and Power Sound are still very boxy - however, they are not as giant. Just to be clear - neither subwoofer is "attractive" to her, rather, they both are less "unattractive" than the other options and she is "OK" about having either one brought in the house. My goal is to get a sub that works well in my space (auditorily) and that does not offend her sense of style.

Furthermore, this will be our first subwoofer. A year from now, if our family actually starts watching movies with the stereo (and sub), then the appreciation of having a box in the corner may grow. However, there is also the chance (I have to begrudgingly have to admit), that we may not be using the stereo to watch movies.

So, again, I must ask - any experience with either one? Recommendations of one or the other? Recommendations of others to consider?

Thank you,
James

OK that's a little more clear where you're coming from. Of the two you listed, I'd probably choose the XS15. If placed in the corner of a room, you could get a little bit of room gain to help fill in the drop in response from being sealed in those lower octives.

The ES1010i sub that agarwalro suggest looks more attractive than the two listed, and on sale for ~$300 (could get 2 for that price):

Another option you might want to try is to look into different ways to hide a sub - would your wife be ok with something like this?

Lastly, if your handy with the tools, maybe you could make a sub disguised as an end table. I googled "table subwoofer" and saw all sorts of images that could be a nice compromise.

So, if I were you, I think it might be worthwhile to look into options that could hide the sub that she would be accepting of. Then you might be able to get a larger more capable sub that would make everyone happy.

 

[ahblaza]

Do you think that the XS15 would have the power (SPL?) for my 3000 cu ft room? At one point, I was going to go with the VTF-2 MK4 which has a smaller footprint (20.5 x 15 x 22), but I did was concerned about it having the power (I am sure that this is not the correct term - so, please correct me) and it would be straining (again, is the right term?).

Thank you again...and again

I have the XV15 in a large room, digs deep and plenty of output. I am amazed at how well it pressurizes that space and so would you in your room, if you (and the misses) like the XS the XV looks the same just a little bigger. Corner loaded it has no problem filling a large room, I am so happy with it I just couldn't help myself from ordering a second, enough for me is never enough don't try to understand that, my wife didn't when I tried to explain why I ordered another XV15. Have you read this: 3-5000 cf Bassaholic rated.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/82624-power-sound-audio-xv-15-subwoofer-review.html
Cheers, and by the way Tom and Jim @ PSA are excellent gentlemen to deal with, five star CS. Jeff

 

[theJman]

Do you think that the XS15 would have the power (SPL?) for my 3000 cu ft room?

The XS15 will probably have more output and low bass extension then anything else you're considering. I happen to be listening to one at this very minute, and can attest to the fact that it can play loud and deep. However, that's a very big space you're trying to fill with one subwoofer. You should probably be thinking Submersive or Captivator S instead. But those are probably not an option, due to cost, so you should be looking hard at the PSA subs because of the bang-for-the-buck they offer.

I'd give PSA a call and tell them your situation. More then likely you'll get Tom on the phone, and he has proven to be a very honest and forthright guy. He'll let you know if anything in PSA's arsenal will work for you.

 

[jfalek]

OK that's a little more clear where you're coming from. Of the two you listed, I'd probably choose the XS15. If placed in the corner of a room, you could get a little bit of room gain to help fill in the drop in response from being sealed in those lower octives.

How well do you think the XS15 would work in a 26x14 room? My HT area is only 1/2 of that 13x14 but I understand that the subwoofer has to handle the entire room.

The ES1010i sub that agarwalro suggest looks more attractive than the two listed, and on sale for ~$300 (could get 2 for that price):

The ES1010i would not work for us as it does not go low enough for good HT.

Another option you might want to try is to look into different ways to hide a sub - would your wife be ok with something like this?
Lastly, if your handy with the tools, maybe you could make a sub disguised as an end table. I googled "table subwoofer" and saw all sorts of images that could be a nice compromise.

So, if I were you, I think it might be worthwhile to look into options that could hide the sub that she would be accepting of. Then you might be able to get a larger more capable sub that would make everyone happy.

This was awesome to me, but not to my wife. But I really like the idea and the creativity!

The XS15 will probably have more output and low bass extension then anything else you're considering. I happen to be listening to one at this very minute, and can attest to the fact that it can play loud and deep. However, that's a very big space you're trying to fill with one subwoofer. You should probably be thinking Submersive or Captivator S instead. But those are probably not an option, due to cost, so you should be looking hard at the PSA subs because of the bang-for-the-buck they offer.

I'd give PSA a call and tell them your situation. More then likely you'll get Tom on the phone, and he has proven to be a very honest and forthright guy. He'll let you know if anything in PSA's arsenal will work for you.

You are right about the cost of Submersive and Captivator being above my cost point. Unfortunately, I may need to make a decision this weekend to take advantage of some of the black Friday sales. I sent an email to the sales and tech support email. I hope that will get it to someone that can help!

 

[jfalek]

The XS15 will probably have more output and low bass extension then anything else you're considering. I happen to be listening to one at this very minute, and can attest to the fact that it can play loud and deep. However, that's a very big space you're trying to fill with one subwoofer. You should probably be thinking Submersive or Captivator S instead. But those are probably not an option, due to cost, so you should be looking hard at the PSA subs because of the bang-for-the-buck they offer.

The only review that I have seen is here.
Can you show me how to understand these charts such that I can see your point?

I'd give PSA a call and tell them your situation. More then likely you'll get Tom on the phone, and he has proven to be a very honest and forthright guy. He'll let you know if anything in PSA's arsenal will work for you.

I just sent an email to their sales and technical support email account. Hopefully, someone will get back to me.

Thanks for all of the input!

 

[ahblaza]

The only review that I have seen is here.
Can you show me how to understand these charts such that I can see your point?

I just sent an email to their sales and technical support email account. Hopefully, someone will get back to me.

Thanks for all of the input!

I would really consider the XV15 corner loaded, I think Tom will also agree, he will get back to you ASAP, count on it, if you order two, 5% discount $1520 for dual XV15s delivered, start with at least one, it may be all you need.

 

[theJman]

How well do you think the XS15 would work in a 26x14 room? My HT area is only 1/2 of that 13x14 but I understand that the subwoofer has to handle the entire room.

If your ceiling height is only 8 feet that gives you close to 3000 cubic feet total, which is quite a lot of space to fill. Give PSA a call and see what Tom thinks, but my guess is he'll say that's borderline.

 

[theJman]

Can you show me how to understand these charts such that I can see your point?

It's quite a bit more involved then that - there's a lot to it I'm afraid. Some places you can go and get pretty good information though are the Terminology page and the Setup Guide. There's a bunch of good reading between them.

 

[ahblaza]

This may interest you

Epik has a one week sale on the Legend, $399 delivered, just add to your cart and it will show the $399 price with free shipping, two of these may satisfy your needs. I have owned a Legend and was happy with it but soon needed more and CS is not that great but I hear it is improving. $800 for dual Legends delivered.
Welcome to Epik Subwoofers
Regular dual purchase is $899 + shipping, 80lbs. per box, about $120 for both or more. Total cone area with dual Legends is approximately 34".
Cheers Jeff

 

[shadyJ]

Epik has a one week sale on the Legend, $399 delivered, just add to your cart and it will show the $399 price with free shipping, two of these may satisfy your needs. I have owned a Legend and was happy with it but soon needed more and CS is not that great but I hear it is improving. $800 for dual Legends delivered.
Welcome to Epik Subwoofers
Regular dual purchase is $899 + shipping, 80lbs. per box, about $120 for both or more. Total cone area with dual Legends is approximately 34".
Cheers Jeff

I have a hard time recommending Epik, especially the Legend because of their amp problems and spotty record of customer service. Also, your math is off on the cone area of the Legends. The total cone area of four 12" woofers would equal that of one 24" woofer.

 

[theJman]

I have a hard time recommending Epik, especially the Legend because of their amp problems and spotty record of customer service.

Yea, I've been hearing those things too. Wonder if somethings going on with them.

 

[jfalek]

It's quite a bit more involved then that - there's a lot to it I'm afraid. Some places you can go and get pretty good information though are the Terminology page and the Setup Guide. There's a bunch of good reading between them.

Thank you - some good reading to finally start to understand!!

 

[ahblaza]

I have a hard time recommending Epik, especially the Legend because of their amp problems and spotty record of customer service. Also, your math is off on the cone area of the Legends. The total cone area of four 12" woofers would equal that of one 24" woofer.

I have to agree with you, that's why I no longer have the Legends, I was under the impression that one Legend with dual 12's has a combined surface of about a 17" woofer. How do you figure your 24" woofer with dual Legends, seriously.
My experience with Epik has been less than stellar, even without an amp failure, my move to a PSA XV15 has been a real eye opener, now I'm waiting on the second to open my other eye. I'm really curious as how you came up with the 24" figure, I'm not being sarcastic, just curious.