Another terrorist plot foiled in Canada

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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Another cell captured yesterday with one of these guys being a Dr and having tried out in Canada's Idol tv show. Clearly an educated man. Religion regardless of faith and extremenism (if thats a word) is a very dangerous combination.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Another cell captured yesterday with one of these guys being a Dr and having tried out in Canada's Idol tv show. Clearly an educated man. Religion regardless of faith and extremenism (if thats a word) is a very dangerous combination.
Maybe he was just bitter because he didn't make the cut...
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
Thanks. That had connecting links of his profile. It's amazing. I guess you just never know who is planning to blow you up these days. Although, he did sing Avril.:eek:
"Jihad Idol"

Unfortunately they keep blowing themselves up before the final round.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I guess he'll never get to finish the latest song he was working on...The Rain Keeps Falling on Ahmed.
 
GirgleMirt

GirgleMirt

Audioholic
Religion regardless of faith and extremenism (if thats a word) is a very dangerous combination.
Is that really what you wanted to say? I think it's absolutely spot on, but I think that's not what you meant.

Here's what you basically said: "Religion, regardless of faith and extremism, is a very dangerous thing.". I changed combination to thing because it makes more sense in context: Since religion is the heart of the subject regardless of two things, it's not really a combination... Religion, regardless of the degree of faith, and regardless of extremism, is very dangerous. It poisons the mind, or as Hitchens eloquently said, "Religion Poisons Everything".

Extremism is just a direct result of religion, it's not an unrelated mishap which just happened to happen... It's a direct offspring. Anyhow, intelligent men seem to have no issue grasping this concept...

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article1860734.ece
How much effort it takes to affirm the incredible! The Aztecs had to tear open a human chest cavity every day just to make sure that the sun would rise. Monotheists are supposed to pester their deity more times than that, perhaps, lest he be deaf. How much vanity must be concealed – not too effectively at that – in order to pretend that one is the personal object of a divine plan? How much self-respect must be sacrificed in order that one may squirm continually in an awareness of one’s own sin? How many needless assumptions must be made, and how much contortion is required, to receive every new insight of science and manipulate it so as to “fit” with the revealed words of ancient man-made deities?

How many saints and miracles and councils and conclaves are required in order first to be able to establish a dogma and then – after infinite pain and loss and absurdity and cruelty – to be forced to rescind one of those dogmas? God did not create man in his own image. Evidently, it was the other way about, which is the painless explanation for the profusion of gods and religions, and the fratricide both between and among faiths, that we see all about us and that has so retarded the development of civilisation.

The mildest criticism of religion is also the most radical and the most devastating one. Religion is man-made. Even the men who made it cannot agree on what their prophets or redeemers or gurus actually said or did. Still less can they hope to tell us the “meaning” of later discoveries and developments that were, when they began, either obstructed by their religions or denounced by them. And yet – the believers still claim to know! Not just to know, but to know everything. Not just to know that god exists, and that he created and supervised the whole enterprise, but also to know what “he” demands of us – from our diet to our observances to our sexual morality. In other words, in a vast and complicated discussion where we know more and more about less and less, yet can still hope for some enlightenment as we proceed, one faction – itself composed of mutually warring factions – has the sheer arrogance to tell us that we already have all the essential information we need. Such stupidity, combined with such pride, should be enough on its own to exclude “belief” from the debate. The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species. It may be a long farewell, but it has begun and, like all farewells, should not be protracted.

The argument with faith is the foundation and origin of all arguments, because it is the beginning – but not the end – of all arguments about philosophy, science, history, and human nature. It is also the beginning – but by no means the end – of all disputes about the good life and the just city. Religious faith is, precisely because we are still--evolving creatures, ineradicable. It will never die out, or at least not until we get over our fear of death, and of the dark, and of the unknown, and of each other.

For this reason, I would not prohibit it even if I thought I could. Very generous of me, you may say. But will the religious grant me the same indulgence? I ask because there is a real and serious difference between me and my religious friends, and the real and serious friends are sufficiently honest to admit it. I would be quite content to go to their children’s bar mitzvahs, to marvel at their Gothic cathedrals, to “respect” their belief that the Koran was dictated, though exclusively in Arabic, to an illiterate merchant, or to interest myself in Wicca and Hindu and Jain consolations. And as it happens, I will continue to do this without insisting on the polite reciprocal condition – which is that they in turn leave me alone. But this, religion is ultimately incapable of doing. As I write these words, and as you read them, people of faith are in their different ways planning your and my destruction, and the destruction of all the hard-won human attainments that I have touched upon. Religion poisons everything.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
organized religion or personal faith? big difference GM. extremism is the work of man.
 
GirgleMirt

GirgleMirt

Audioholic
organized religion or personal faith? big difference GM. extremism is the work of man.
Religion is the work of man... Besides, I don't get the difference. Personal faith spawns from organized religion. Without religion, you have personal faith based on what? Faith of what?

Another cell captured yesterday with one of these guys being a Dr and having tried out in Canada's Idol tv show. Clearly an educated man. Religion regardless of faith and extremenism (if thats a word) is a very dangerous combination.
While posting the last message I thought the combination might have been religion & education... But this doesn't make much sense as they're both largely opposites. One prones knowledge while the other prones ignorance... You can't rationally be both. Either you're educated and have gained knowledge about the world, and so have to reject the precepts of religion, or, you embrace religion/faith and reject rational and critical thought, to embrace the supernatural... This is especially true for science education where religious believers are far less likely than people without any education. And this again is especially true for religion, as the most you study religion, the more you learn about it, the less believable it becomes...

What is faith? "Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits."
Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith", 1992

As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it
actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to
change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are
available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. The
saddest example I know is that of the American geologist Kurt
Wise, who now directs the Center for Origins Research at Bryan
College, Dayton, Tennessee. It is no accident that Bryan College is
named after William Jennings Bryan, prosecutor of the science
teacher John Scopes in the Dayton 'Monkey Trial' of 1925. Wise
could have fulfilled his boyhood ambition to become a professor of
geology at a real university, a university whose motto might have
been 'Think critically' rather than the oxymoronic one displayed on
the Bryan website: 'Think critically and biblically'. Indeed, he
obtained a real degree in geology at the University of Chicago,
followed by two higher degrees in geology and paleontology at
Harvard (no less) where he studied under Stephen Jay Gould (no
less). He was a highly qualified and genuinely promising young
scientist, well on his way to achieving his dream of teaching science
and doing research at a proper university.

Then tragedy struck. It came, not from outside but from within
his own mind, a mind fatally subverted and weakened by a fundamentalist
religious upbringing that required him to believe that the
Earth - the subject of his Chicago and Harvard geological education
- was less than ten thousand years old. He was too intelligent not to
recognize the head-on collision between his religion and his science,
and the conflict in his mind made him increasingly uneasy. One day,
he could bear the strain no more, and he clinched the matter with
a pair of scissors. He took a bible and went right through it, literally
cutting out every verse that would have to go if the scientific
world-view were true. At the end of this ruthlessly honest and
labour-intensive exercise, there was so little left of his bible that,

"try as I might, and even with the benefit of intact margins
throughout the pages of Scripture, I found it impossible to
pick up the Bible without it being rent in two. I had to
make a decision between evolution and Scripture. Either
the Scripture was true and evolution was wrong or
evolution was true and I must toss out the Bible . . . It was
there that night that I accepted the Word of God and
rejected all that would ever counter it, including
evolution. With that, in great sorrow, I tossed into the fire
all my dreams and hopes in science."

I find that terribly sad; but whereas the Golgi Apparatus story
moved me to tears of admiration and exultation, the Kurt Wise
story is just plain pathetic - pathetic and contemptible. The wound,
to his career and his life's happiness, was self-inflicted, so unnecessary,
so easy to escape. All he had to do was toss out the bible.
Or interpret it symbolically, or allegorically, as the theologians do.
Instead, he did the fundamentalist thing and tossed out science,
evidence and reason, along with all his dreams and hopes.
The same goes for education vs religion and intelligence vs religion. The more intelligent a person, the less likely he'll be religious.

A British researcher, Richard Lynn, claims to have found a correlation between intelligence and relgious scepticism. In a study spanning 137 countries, Lynn found that high intelligence produced an extremely high likelihood of the rejection of religious faith.


Lynn is an emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Ulster and wrote the study with John Harvey and Helmuth Nyborg, of the University of Aarhus, Denmark. In one study cited by the men, a survey of the American National Academy of Sciences found only 7 percent believed in God. Another survey of the Royal Society found that only 3.3 per cent believed in God while at the same time 68.5 per cent of the general UK population were believers.
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=402381

In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions. [4] "I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

Religion is man made. Its precepts prone ignorance, it's conservationist to the max, will go at great lengths to prevent progress which is largely counter productive towards its own goals and even existence... As I said, extremism is simply a direct result of the medieval beliefs and values of even current religions. These false beliefs and delusions aren't glorious as some priests would like you to believe, 'faith' isn't something to be admired, it should be discouraged and even opposed, just like ignorance...

Anyhow, if the combination was that "religion, extremism, faith and education is a very dangerous combination", I disagree, as the more intelligent a person, the more educated a person, the less likely he'll be to have faith, to be an extremist and to be religious. The more faith a person has, the less likely he'll be to question his beliefs and acknowledge facts which are in opposition to his beliefs... The most dangerous combination is religion, coupled with lack of intellect and education. And lack of education is the true problem here. And even worst, how defenseless children are indoctrinated and how their minds are poisoned at an early age, while it's most susceptible... Dawkins refers to this as religion being a virus. Child indoctrination is how/why religion still persists. Without it, people could make up their own minds and see religion for what it truly is: Ridiculous. That's definitely one of the most vile aspect of religion, child indoctrination.

organized religion or personal faith? big difference GM. extremism is the work of man.
I find the notion of faith repulsive... As it simply seems to prone ignorance... It seems to be in direct opposition to critical, rational thought. Don't think about it... Don't question yourself... Just believe!!! Have faith! Look at that man, he has faith, oooh, he's so great... Uh, no, he's deluded, he's fooling himself. He's just hoping for something to be true and is disregarding his common senses and most likely what his own intellect and knowledge is telling him. It's sad really... And religion lives on, by exploiting children and filling their heads with delusions and all kind of other nasty stuff... Religion is a bane, and things like extremism is simply a direct result of religion... I honestly find religion and faith repugnant... More and more when I read about things like this... "Another terrorist plot foiled in Canada"
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm sticking to what I said originally..the combination makes for trouble, not just one or the other.
 
GirgleMirt

GirgleMirt

Audioholic
Another cell captured yesterday with one of these guys being a Dr and having tried out in Canada's Idol tv show. Clearly an educated man. Religion regardless of faith and extremenism (if thats a word) is a very dangerous combination.
I'm sticking to what I said originally..the combination makes for trouble, not just one or the other.
Combination of what?
-Education & Religion & Faith & Extremism
-Education & Religion & Faith
-Education & Religion
-Education & Faith
-Education & Extremism
-Religion & Faith & Extremism
-Religion & Faith
-Religion & Extremism
-Faith & Extremism
Many don't make sense... But anyhow, you're probably right, anything related to religion, faith or extremism "makes for trouble". You'll not see me disagreeing here. All are results from one another. Religion spawns faith... Then faith & religion spawns extremism... They're all the same issue at the core, religion.
 
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