Amplifier power - cheap vs expensive

[padgman1]

This questions piggybacks off of another thread on todays AV receivers being better or worse than 5 years ago...

Today's amplifiers - are the cheaper Class D amps or A/B amps ( Outlaw, Emotiva, Crown, etc.) as good as the more expensive A/B amps or strictly A amps from the classics ( Carver, Mcintosh, Mark Levinson, Classe, Pass, etc.) for (1) HT use and ( 2) music use in a 2.1 or 5.1/5.2 setup?

Maybe a better question is - does one need to spend >$2000-3000 on an amp for HT use or serious music use? If not, which brand(s) do people on this forum prefer/ recommend ( I see a lot of anti-Emotiva sentiment here)?

 

[Pyrrho]

In my main 2 channel system, I use a Crown K2 power amplifier to drive Apogee Stage speakers. This particular Crown does not use a fan, so there is no fan noise. It works very well and sounds great. These speakers, by the way, are generally regarded as some of the most "revealing" that you can buy, so I assure you, you do not need to be buying a very expensive ąmplifier.

In my home theater, I just use my receiver to drive the speakers there (which are not 3 ohm Apogee Stage speakers). Unless you have very inefficient or difficult to drive speakers, you very likely do not need to buy a separate ąmplifier. You only need a separate ąmplifier if your speakers require it. Otherwise, it would be a waste of money to get one.

So, what speakers are you planning on using? That is the first question. After that, if one is needed, I recommend buying based on its ability to drive that particular load, and not wasting money on expensive brands. My Crown is very good, and I am glad I bought it. Spending more would have been a waste of money. And with my home theater, I am glad I did not waste extra money buying something more than just my receiver.


If you want really good sound and have extra money to spend, look at more expensive speakers. They matter far more than most electronics.

 

[PENG]

Depends on your room size, shape, and speakers. In a small to medium rectangular room and speakers with average (say 87 to 92 dB) sensitivity with nominal impedance >6 ohms, minimum >3 ohms any 4XXX Denon or equivalent will be fine. If you must have amps, for class A/B I think Outlaw, Emotiva, Adcom, Parasound (non Halo), Anthem (the lower MCA line) and Marantz will be fine. ATI must be great too though I have never heard them. I think Emo amps do offer great value but I also think their perceived power outputs are in some cases over stated by some of their owners, probably because they tend to be heavy. I looked at their transformer kVA rating instead of their weight, surely the two are related but only to a point. Their XPR models are different, definitely power houses. Other than the XPR, the XPA-1 and XPA-2's specs also seem credible base on their power supply transformer sizes.

 

[moves]

I will admit that I don't know as much as most people on here but what I have learned that the more expensive models, such as the Mc, are built to last down the road. The cheaper models will sound similar if not the same but what is sacrificed is the build quality. For HT - I wouldn't bother with an expensive amp. However, I would make sure that I have enough power to manage the loud gun shots and explosions in movies but other than that, you'll be hovering around a couple of watts on average. I have a Pioneer that's rated at 140 watts and it handles movies fine. BUT, I have never had a chance to compare it with a more powerful amp. Ughhhhhhhh people who know more than me please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[jinjuku]

I like my Crown. For three years running I had TWO Parasound HCA 1000A's that I would give to anyone that could out of 10 coin flips pick the superior audiophile amp vs a piece of 'pro-audio junk' (to borrow a phrase) 90% of the time

You wouldn't get a chance to listen to each beforehand. Stone cold since people said it would be 'night and day'.

 

[fmw]

This questions piggybacks off of another thread on todays AV receivers being better or worse than 5 years ago...

Today's amplifiers - are the cheaper Class D amps or A/B amps ( Outlaw, Emotiva, Crown, etc.) as good as the more expensive A/B amps or strictly A amps from the classics ( Carver, Mcintosh, Mark Levinson, Classe, Pass, etc.) for (1) HT use and ( 2) music use in a 2.1 or 5.1/5.2 setup?

Maybe a better question is - does one need to spend >$2000-3000 on an amp for HT use or serious music use? If not, which brand(s) do people on this forum prefer/ recommend ( I see a lot of anti-Emotiva sentiment here)?

There are a few realities you should understand. The first is that price is not an indication of quality or performance in the audio world. The second is that there is no point in worrying about sonics with an amplifier. They all handle it competently regardless of they way they are biased. You may want a large separate power amp if either you need to fill a very large space with sound or if you are dealing with complex speaker loads or very low impedances. In general, for most home audio purposes with most home speakers, any amp will do the job, even those that are part of a receiver or integrated amp. Understand that isn't what the manufacturers will tell you but they are in the business of trying to sell you stuff.

 

[PENG]

I will admit that I don't know as much as most people on here but what I have learned that the more expensive models, such as the Mc, are built to last down the road. The cheaper models will sound similar if not the same but what is sacrificed is the build quality. For HT - I wouldn't bother with an expensive amp. However, I would make sure that I have enough power to manage the loud gun shots and explosions in movies but other than that, you'll be hovering around a couple of watts on average. I have a Pioneer that's rated at 140 watts and it handles movies fine. BUT, I have never had a chance to compare it with a more powerful amp. Ughhhhhhhh people who know more than me please correct me if I am wrong.

You are quite right, but in my case my Marantz SA-7 would typically be "hoovering" around 0.1 tp 0.5W or less per channel with highest peaks no more than 20W even when I listened quite loud. It would be far too loud for me if the amp would hoover around a couple of watts on average.

 

[padgman1]

I have a Denon 2113 ( 95 wpc for at least 2, probably ~60 if all 7 channels driven, NO preouts) and moderately sensitive bookshelf speakers( 86db)("max" recommended power 150 watts) for now in a ~2500 cu ft space........the volume output is adequate for my needs for now.
I'm wondering if more power to the system, whether it be a more powereful AV receiver or a pre/pro combo, would be worthwhile.
( the Denon also "limits" me somewhat in the type of speakers I might want to upgrade to since it is not rated to 4 ohms)

I guess I also wonder, if the power outputs are similar between the "classic established" brands and the newer "cheaper upstarts", why buy a amp that is 3-5 times more expensive?

 

[fmw]

No, you have plenty of power. Lower impedance speakers draw more current. If the speakers draw more current than the amp can deliver, then you have a problem. Normally, it is not a problem because few people use home amplifiers at anywhere near their rated output for any meaningful length of time. But in extreme cases it could be a problem. If you want to try driving 4 ohm speakers with your receiver just pay attention to any overheating at the heat sinks. If they start to get too hot to touch, then you you don't have enough amp to drive them safely. What the manufacturer is telling you is that at full rated output 4 ohms draws too much current. If they put a 4 ohm rating they would have reduce the power output rating. It all boils down to current draw and heat.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I see a lot of anti-Emotiva sentiment here...

What? No!

Some of us are just more ostentatious.

You will see vacillating responses on this equivocal archaic subject.

For the record, I don't believe there is much difference in amps at all.

BTW, there is a poll on amp sound.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/84632-can-you-hear-difference-sound-between-audio-amplifiers.html

 

[panteragstk]

In my main 2 channel system, I use a Crown K2 power amplifier to drive Apogee Stage speakers. This particular Crown does not use a fan, so there is no fan noise. It works very well and sounds great. These speakers, by the way, are generally regarded as some of the most "revealing" that you can buy, so I assure you, you do not need to be buying a very expensive ąmplifier.

In my home theater, I just use my receiver to drive the speakers there (which are not 3 ohm Apogee Stage speakers). Unless you have very inefficient or difficult to drive speakers, you very likely do not need to buy a separate ąmplifier. You only need a separate ąmplifier if your speakers require it. Otherwise, it would be a waste of money to get one.

So, what speakers are you planning on using? That is the first question. After that, if one is needed, I recommend buying based on its ability to drive that particular load, and not wasting money on expensive brands. My Crown is very good, and I am glad I bought it. Spending more would have been a waste of money. And with my home theater, I am glad I did not waste extra money buying something more than just my receiver.


If you want really good sound and have extra money to spend, look at more expensive speakers. They matter far more than most electronics.

I've heard many say that the K2 was the best amp crown ever made. I think it's liquid cooled if I'm not mistaken.

I really like my class D xls1500. I had sort of an issue, but it wasn't a problem so much as I should have set it up differently. Pro amps are fantastic for the money. Some of them don't have a very good noise floor, but mine is totally silent.

 

[ratm]

I have an XPA-3 for my mains and an EP4000 for my Captivator. Both have worked flawlessly and can push my system louder than my ears can handle.