AMPing for B&W 683's

[DrFunk]

Well, I've got a pair of 683's and I've been wondering which AMP to get. I run it off of an Onkyo 809, and the manual that came with the B&W's says to give it a good 200W of power at 8 ohms for each tower. I've been looking at the XPA-2, but I've seen these other amps that offer way more power for less than half the price of the XPA-2, but can't really find that many reliable reviews on them, so I was wondering if anyone else had any experience with them. Here they are:

Behringer A500 Reference
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-A500-Reference-Amplifier/dp/B000CZ0RL0/ref=pd_cp_MI_3

This is the same AMP as above, but this website states different power outputs for some reason:

Behringer A500 Reference Power Amplifier 2 x 300W 248-749


Crown XLS 1500
Crown XLS 1500 | Sweetwater.com

QSC GX7
QSC GX7 | Sweetwater.com

This amp boasts a ridiculous 725W at 8ohms for 2 channels!!! And for only $600? That's $200 less than the XPA-2 with more than twice the power output.

Behringer EP2000
Behringer EP2000 Europower Power Amplifier 2 x 750W 248-746

$300 with 350W 8ohms per channel or I could run them at 1000W bridged mode.


Are the amp's I'm looking at wrong or am I just reading them wrong and it's "to good to be true"?

 

[DrFunk]

Really? No one has any opinions for me?

 

[walter duque]

All I can say is "you get what you pay for".

 

[GranteedEV]

Behringer A500 Reference
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-A500-Reference-Amplifier/dp/B000CZ0RL0/ref=pd_cp_MI_3

Peter Aczel has measured this amp:

Not a poor amp, but not outstanding.

Crown XLS 1500
Crown XLS 1500 | Sweetwater.com

Not to be confused with the Crown XLS 402 / 602 / 802 etc series, these Crown XLS drivecore amps (1000 / 1500 / 2000) are the ones I recommend! Class D operation means that you save a lot of money on heatsinking. There is a temperature controlled fan that won't likely come on at in-home listening levels (this is a professional product where these amps take a real beating).

QSC GX7
QSC GX7 | Sweetwater.com

QSC amps have a very good reputation, although I'm not overly familiar with the GX series stuff.

Behringer EP2000
Behringer EP2000 Europower Power Amplifier 2 x 750W 248-746

This one will have an always-on, loud fan that will need to be replaced. I think it's a bit convoluted.

Are the amp's I'm looking at wrong or am I just reading them wrong and it's "to good to be true"?

That, is in the eye (ear?) of the beholder

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I'd go with the Crown XLS1500. The new XLS's are really nice for the money.

QSC makes great stuff also, not sure about the fan on that model though. I've used that model but it was in a loud club where I couldn't hear the fan anyways as the previous DJ was already playing before I arrived and the amps were in a rack pretty far away behind the booth.

Behringer isn't great, it's basically a knocked off old QSC design. It works, but, as mentioned earlier, will need a fan replacement. No biggie, but, notable. Also, I've personally had reliability issues with these, but, home use is so easy on amps it might not be a problem. Also their customer service is terrible.

Another brand to look at is Crest. Highly recommended.

Also, I'd recommend buying the Crown from B&H Photo Video (bhphotovideo.com), their customer service is awesome and are competitive in pricing as well. Musicians Friend is also good (they carry Crest too).

 

[Pyrrho]

Well, I've got a pair of 683's and I've been wondering which AMP to get. I run it off of an Onkyo 809, and the manual that came with the B&W's says to give it a good 200W of power at 8 ohms for each tower. I've been looking at the XPA-2, but I've seen these other amps that offer way more power for less than half the price of the XPA-2, but can't really find that many reliable reviews on them, so I was wondering if anyone else had any experience with them. Here they are:

Behringer A500 Reference
Amazon.com: Behringer A500 Reference Amplifier: Musical Instruments

This is the same AMP as above, but this website states different power outputs for some reason:

Behringer A500 Reference Power Amplifier 2 x 300W 248-749


Crown XLS 1500
Crown XLS 1500 | Sweetwater.com

QSC GX7
QSC GX7 | Sweetwater.com

This amp boasts a ridiculous 725W at 8ohms for 2 channels!!! And for only $600? That's $200 less than the XPA-2 with more than twice the power output.

Behringer EP2000
Behringer EP2000 Europower Power Amplifier 2 x 750W 248-746

$300 with 350W 8ohms per channel or I could run them at 1000W bridged mode.


Are the amp's I'm looking at wrong or am I just reading them wrong and it's "to good to be true"?

You are not properly looking at the ratings. You need to only compare power output as continuous RMS, covering the same range of frequencies, into the same impedance, and with comparable distortion. Professional amplifiers are typically rated into 1kHz, not from 20-20kHz for the big numbers, and often into 4 ohms instead of 8 ohms (which is the typical impedance used for advertising home equipment).

For example, you see ratings of 300 watts per channel for the Behringer A500. If you look in the manual (you can find it here in a variety of languages, here is the pdf in English), you will find that that is peak power, not RMS, and it is into 4 ohms, not 8 ohms. So it is not at all like the Emotiva XPA-2 amplifier, which can put out 300 watts continuous RMS into 8 ohms per channel, both channels driven (500 watts continuous RMS @ 4 ohms), from 20-20khz, with no more than 0.1% THD. Looking in the manual for the Behringer, it is 125 watts RMS @ 8 ohms (185 watts RMS @ 4 ohms), both channels driven @ 1kHz @ 1% THD. From that, it will be a bit less power from 20-20kHz and with 0.1% THD, though it is impossible to tell precisely how much less. The Behringer is vastly inferior to the Emotiva and you can tell this from properly looking at the specifications.

I will leave the other amplifiers for you to examine on your own.

Also, no fan means no fan noise. (The Behringer, being really about a 100 watt per channel amplifier [in the same sorts of terms as the Emotiva is a 300 watt per channel amplifier], is not very high powered and so they use heat sinks instead of a fan.)

Now, I have nothing against using a professional amplifier (I use one [a Crown K2, which is a rare pro amplifier that does not use a fan], though I also use two home power amplifiers), but make sure you are looking at the same kinds of ratings, or the numbers are simply meaningless.


Now, the Behringer might be enough to satisfy you, but so might the Onkyo receiver that you are using. If you currently can play your system cleanly as loud as you want it, you don't need more power than you already have.

 

[Pyrrho]

The closest amplifier Emotiva makes to the Berhinger A500 is the UPA-2. And although both are rated for the same continuous RMS output power into both 4 and 8 ohms, the Emotiva is still better, as its continuous power is with 0.1% THD and it is rated at that power from 20-20kHz +/-0.05dB, instead of the 1% THD @ 1 kHz of the Behringer, so it is still more powerful in fact (as it would put out a bit more power at that higher level of distortion, into that one frequency). And the price reflects its superiority. By the pound, the Emotiva is actually cheaper, but I do not recommend buying amplifiers by the pound.

Still, for the price, the Behringer is probably a very good amplifier. But it isn't better than many much more expensive amplifiers. And if you do get it, make sure you use it only with the volume controls all the way up, because it distorts horribly with the volume turned down. It also has a slight roll off of treble:

http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=22&blogId=1

It is really not a very well made unit, but it is very, very cheap, and it is hard, if not impossible, to do better at that price for a new unit.

Here is an old thread about the Behringer:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/17004-behringer-a500-amplifier-objective-test-results.html

I would much rather have the Emotiva UPA-2 than the Berhinger A500, but it costs 50% more, so one needs to want it much more to buy it instead. Of course, if you are wanting a full 200 watts per channel, you need to go to a higher end amplifier.

 

[timoteo]

I own the B&W 683 towers. Ive powered them with a Denon 2309 then got my Yamaha RX-A2000 & i added an Emotiva XPA-5 so i could give all 5 channels the deserved 200 watts. I love the Emotiva amp!!! Great sound, dont have to worry about headroom & just an overall top notch company to deal with. Worth every pennie IMHO!!!

Ive heard pro amps are good bang for your buck but i cant comment on any. All i can vouch for is the Emo. Id say get at least an XPA-3 so your front 3 have the exact same power so you dont get any shift in sound between your mains & center. 200w is plenty!!

How do you like your 683s?

 

[DrFunk]

Love them. To death. But, I have yet to hear them with my 809, as I still need time to get back home to hook it up. Thanks everyone else for your input!

I'll listen to them first with my new receiver to see if I really should warrant spending the money on an amp.

 

[timoteo]

Oh yes for suremlisten to them on the Onkyo first b4 making a decision like that. You'll probably find they will sound just great without. Only if you have a large room &/or listen at high volumes would i even start to recommend an amp.

Yeah i love my 683s as well!!! Great speaker in my book. Let us know what you think & post pics!!!

 

[Emig5m]

I used a Emotiva XPA-5 with my 683's (and now with their high end brother the 804S's). I ran my Yamaha 663 AVR into protection mode three times with the 683's (didn't happen with the 684's) then I said no more so I then bought the Emotiva XPA-5 (wanted something affordable) and never looked back. I also drove the little 685's with the beastly Emo in stereo and I really think that even the little guys require a real amp to get the most out of them, just in another way (sensitivity/efficiency vs ohm drops). Initially I thought I might harm the little guys with the big amp in stereo but the little 685's can rock and roll cleanly at volume with some good clean power on tap! (Somehow at that point I was getting the feeling that B&W's power ratings are extremely on the conservative side as they seem to comfortably handle more than their rated power) It was an eye opener with the little 685's for sure! I learned that even the little guys can benefit from a good amp. I'll never go again without a separate dedicated amp in my system that's for sure. And Emotiva seems to be the sweet spot for solid performance for the buck for home audio amps. Can't say the same for their processors though, heh.