All these beautiful displays

[ironlung]

Even if you don't watch broadcast television at all, HDTV can be worth it based on DVD movie watching alone. In an earlier post, you indicated that a 27" SDTV has about the same viewing area as a 34" HDTV when viewing 4:3 material, which is true. But when watching 16:9 material, the size difference is greater, as the 27" SDTV looks like a 24" HDTV because of the letterboxing.

The size difference is a wash when comparing the 34" HD to the 36" SD.

In AutoCAD I made a 36" diag 4:3 aspect box and a 34" diag 16:9 aspect box and then centered the two over each other.

The "widescreen" is only 0.834" more wide than the SDTV. The 36" is 4.931" taller than the widescreen. Thats 2 1/2" top and bottom letterbox space before screen viewable area is different between the two to any significant amount. In other words you could fit a 33.044" diag 16:9 picture into a 36" diag 4:3 screen.

Now I may be wrong but I am assuming a 34" Sony WEGA HDTV and a 36" Sony WEGA SDTV (both non XBR) would be equal with 480p program material. To me 0.834" more wide screen is not worth $700 for the slight chance a show I want to see that might be 1080i. Especially when all of the 4:3 material can use the extra 5" of height.

If any one wants to see the box overlays I can post it from home.

 

[MDS]

Here is a handly little site to compare tv sizes and aspect ratios:
http://www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi

 

[aarond]

Unless you are a big sports fan its easy to run out of HD content quick. After you have watched PBS and INHD1 & 2 for a couple months new content is few and far between. I don't like NFL or MLB. NHL has 1 maybe 2 games in HD per week.

480i is 480i even if you could afford a 2160p set.

When did they start playing hockey again?

 

[MAX661]

a few weeks ago, Ottawa is 6-0 Baby...

 

[docferdie]

I am all for 720p but until there is media for 1080p...silly bragging rights.

Actually I used to be a fan of sticking it out with 720p as well until I realized that current 1080i (30 fps) broadcasts of film based material can be processed to extract the actual 24 frames per second of progressive data. If you want to know how HD-DVD or Bluray will look then all you really need is proper inverse telecine of a 1080i movie channel like HBO. That's as good as HD-DVD/Blu ray will look (for the same data rates of course)--unless directors start shooting movies at anything other than 24 fps.. My problem is that I don't know which of the current 1080p sets does proper inverse telecine of 1080i--casual browsing of AVS forum has only turned up one $40000 1080p projector from Faroudja that maybe does this correctly.

Plus for the gamers out there, how cool would it be to play half-life 2 or doom 3 at 1920x1080 at 60 fps on a 70 inch screen?

 

[ryan]

Another option to get the most out of your 1080p set would be to go with a video scaler that converts all of your sources up to 1080p. Obviously it costs more but then again it will allow you to take full advantage of your current top of the line set. An example of a scaler would be the DVDO iScan VP30. Here is their website:

http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp30.php

Also from what I understand Denon is now offering software and/or hardware updates for their 5910 dvd player that will allow it to convert up to 1080p.

 

[docferdie]

Another option to get the most out of your 1080p set would be to go with a video scaler that converts all of your sources up to 1080p. .

The problem with this approach is that it will only work if the display natively accepts 1080p (60 fps) without converting to 1080i and then reconverting to 1080p for display. Very few televisions accept native 1080p input right now. A number of 24 to 30 inch widescreen computer monitors do though.

 

[corey]

ironlung's origional post was about HD vs SD TV's, not different types of HD.

I don't think the price difference between a direct view HDTV and a similar sized SDTV is justified when watching a SD broadcast, or playing a DVD. However, my 50" HD RPTV did not cost much more than a direct view HDTV, and watching a dvd on it does justify the price difference. Seeing a few programs & movies in HD is just an extra.

 

[soundsfine]

My problem is that I don't know which of the current 1080p sets does proper inverse telecine of 1080i--casual browsing of AVS forum has only turned up one $40000 1080p projector from Faroudja that maybe does this correctly.

Supposedly, the new line of Mitsubishi TVs do correct 1080i to 1080p. They call the technology Plush1080p.

 

[BostonMark]

my viewing habits

I watch mostly HDTV broadcasts when I watch TV programming, although I actually watch on my ED Projector on my 105" screen because I far prefer that picture than the true 27" HDTV I have in my bedroom. The HD broadcasts look great (even though downsampled) on a 5 x 8 foot screen. I love to watch CSI, CSI Miami, 2 1/2 Men, and Still Standing in HDTV. I also watched all the Red Sox games last year when they FINALLY took the World Series, and I watch the Pats play in HDTV if they make the Superbowl. (I'm not a big sports fan, but I like to see my teams win, but if F1 racing was in HD, ...) In my area Comcast offers quite a few HDTV broadcasts, including several channels always in HD. A Discovery Channel, two channels called INHD one and INHD two, which have a variety of documentaries, nature shows, sports shows, music shows and other misc. HD content. I probably only watch 5-6 hours of TV broadcasts a week, but except for SD Southpark, its all HD broadcasting. I also love that I can make HD recordings with my DVR from Comcast. (they use up 4 times the space as SD!, but well worth it). I have a separate TV hooked up for SD (4:3) broadcasting) Standard Broadcasting is not so pretty on the big screen, although the ones broadcast in digital are somewhat exception. I use the projector and 16:9 DaLite Cinamavision screen for all movie viewing. Bringing movies into my home that are pan and scan is considered a crime and will subject the wrongdoer to deportation. (Movies actually shot in 4:3 by the director are acceptable).
I love my HDTV cable boxes, and like the fact that HDTV (or EDTVs) allow you to watch all your DVDs in 480 progressive instead of interlaced. The quality difference on DVDs is very noticable, even on my small HDTV.

Well, you asked, so there it is!

 

[docferdie]

Supposedly, the new line of Mitsubishi TVs do correct 1080i to 1080p. They call the technology Plush1080p.

From the way they describe it on their website Plush1080p sounds like a brute force deinterlacing algorithm. It may still result in a good picture but it doesn't reconstruct the original 24 movie fps like proper inverse telecine does. On the other hand, I noticed that the 82 inch 1080p supports a 1080p PC input mode. I guess 7800GTX owners with the Nvidia DVD decoder are in luck since this hardware/software combination supposedly does true inverse telecine up to 1080i.

 

[ironlung]

Just curious

Raise your hand if you use the distortion creating effects(full stretch, wide zoom whatever your TV calls it) to get rid of the side bars on 4:3 content on a 16:9 TV.

 

[ironlung]

No one cares!!

I had an interesting experience this weekend. I was at my Grandmothers this weekend and my uncles live there also. My uncle has a plasma TV in the living room. He asked if I could explain whats wrong with some channels. He flips to the HD channel of the local fox broadcast and asks why there are black bars on the sides of the screen. He was under the assumption that all the channels were HD. He was watching streched(distorted) super compressed 480i material 99% of the time and feeling good that his 16:9 screen was full. He even called it "HD".

I gave him a crash course on SD (480i/p) and HD(720p 1080i/p) resolution and aspect ratios. He asked what he could do to "fix" the black bars on fox and other HD channels that brodcast 480i 4:3 material(the HD channels ignore the strech/zoom button). I said he should just watch the non HD fox.

He was happy as could be with his distorted low res "HD".


Earlier in the year I was at their condo in FL and in the library they have a 40+ plasma built in to the wall(beautiful I might add) and a scientific american HD box. The box was not input through HDMI, it ws not connected through component, it was not connected through S-video, not even composite, they had it connected via RF. In the living room they have a 34" direct view HD 'ready' CRT....no cable/OTA box just using the internal NTSC tuner.

The sad thing is(not the 12 grand in wasted tech) he is not alone, most with an HDTV seem to have this attitude. Fill the screen with uber compressed streched SD and enjoy!

 

[majorloser]

Raise your hand if you use the distortion creating effects(full strech, wide zoom whatever your TV calls it) to get rid of the side bars on 4:3 content on a 16:9 TV.

Sometimes I will use the partial zoom feature of my DISH receiver to get the letterboxed video of a 480i 4:3 picture to fit my 16:9 screen. It just seems kind of stupid for me to watch something broadcast in letterbox (black bars top and bottom) in 4:3 format on a 16:9 screen and have a mini picture.

Granted, the image quality is poor. But all standard broadcast is poor when compared to true HDTV.

What's worse is when you watch something like ESPN-HD and they put logo bars down the side to fill the space instead of broadcasting a 16:9 image. Least they could do is put other game scores in this area to fill space.

 

[Buckle-meister]

I heard on the radio (I'll never fathom why 'they' changed 'radio' to 'tuner') tonight that the BBC was thinking about trialing High Definition broadcasting of sports highlights (i.e. about two hours worth) etc sometime about the middle of next year!

High Definition T.V's are starting to appear in the high street stores, and to be sure, the demo stuff they play looks fabulous, but in my opinion, it wont be for a long long time that High Definition is:

1. Broadcast on more than 50% of channels, i.e. the majority of programs being in HD, and

2. T.V's sold out-numbering regular T'V's.

Regards

 

[ironlung]

Sometimes I will use the partial zoom feature of my DISH receiver to get the letterboxed video of a 480i 4:3 picture to fit my 16:9 screen. It just seems kind of stupid for me to watch something broadcast in letterbox (black bars top and bottom) in 4:3 format on a 16:9 screen and have a mini picture.

Granted, the image quality is poor. But all standard broadcast is poor when compared to true HDTV.

What's worse is when you watch something like ESPN-HD and they put logo bars down the side to fill the space instead of broadcasting a 16:9 image. Least they could do is put other game scores in this area to fill space.

The zoom on letterbox is passable at least it's not distorting the image. I was more refering to the stretch functions.

 

[corey]

For SD 4:3 programs I use Sony's stretch/zoom function. It leaves the center part of the image somewhat alone, crops the top & bottom a bit & then compresses the top & bottom & expands the sides. Faces in the center part of the screen don't look tooooo out of shape. Watch it enough & it's OK.

None of the above matters. Get a wide screen DVD. Put in a progressive scan player, etc. & a good sized HDTV. Enjoy.