Akiko Audio Tuning Stick Spectral Preview

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L

lallygagging

Audioholic Intern
Isn't it delightful, that Nestor gifts us with this deep pearl of wisdom. Did you make this up yourself, Nestor?

It is my guess that you are someone who has never actually heard what the Akiko Tuning Sticks can or cannot do. If I am wrong, then I apologize.

Did you even read what I wrote in my last post?
 
L

lallygagging

Audioholic Intern
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out." - Richard Dawkins
And MarkW offers us yet another pearl of wisdom. Two things I wonder, however. Have you ever actually tried the Sticks? Do you always respond with someone else's thoughts?

I am not saying to be so open minded that we accept everything. I am saying to be open minded until you have actually tried something. Then, once you have tried it, close your mind if you want to.

But people who report on things they haven't tried are totally closed minded.
 
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L

lallygagging

Audioholic Intern
Also, Nestor. Today you can try audio products without parting with your money. Don't you know that?
 
L

lallygagging

Audioholic Intern
J_Garcia, are your other 23,261 posts like this one? Since you included a quote of my original question, I am assuming that it is some kind of response to that question, but I for the life of me, I can't figure out what it means.
 
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jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I know you have typed an awful lot Lallygagging. But I'm not sure what you are trying to say. What I haven't seen you type is that you tried the tuning sticks.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
So I'm still not seeing where the credible proof is that anyone should waste any time or money to even begin to bother with these things, and lets be clear, it does cost money. You have to pay for these things and even though there is a money back guarantee, you're still most likely not getting back shipping to you or from you back to them. For something that doesn't come with a shred of credible evidence, it's not worth even the price of shipping to me.

You're absolutely right, hearing is totally subjective and what you hear is different from what I hear and that's different from what everyone else hears. However, that's why we have the objective stuff. To keep us from wasting money on things that don't offer any audible improvement. Because, I mean, there are people who believe in ghosts, bigfoot, the yeti, and many other things. Like with the tuning stick and many other marketing gimmicks, I'll wait for the proof that it will give me an audible difference and I won't spend a dime until then. What you and others hear and do with their money is totally and completely up to you and them. I respect your right to do so and your opinion that you hear what you hear. I also ask that you respect my right to think that, that's pretty silly.
 
L

lallygagging

Audioholic Intern
I know you have typed an awful lot Lallygagging. But I'm not sure what you are trying to say. What I haven't seen you type is that you tried the tuning sticks.
Really? You don't understand what I am trying to say? I suggest you go back and read it carefully because it is all expressed very clearly in good ol' American English.

My post is not about the tuning sticks. It is a commentary against the idea that one can seriously criticize something that he/she has not actually ever experienced, and not only criticize the thing it self but discredit the findings of those who have tried it and liked it.

But with respect to the Tuning Sticks:
I have ordered them. When I get them and have had some time to assess them, I will report my findings. But I doubt that most people on here will be interested in knowing what I find out because they are already they are convinced that they already know all about them. Let me qualify that. They will be uninterested if I report that they actually work. On the other hand, If my findings concur with what they already know to be true without trying them, that is, that they don't work at all, then they will be really interested in what I have to say.
If I report that they do work, my findings will have no merit. I will be told that I am imagining it. I might be ridiculed... those tactics and any others intended to discredit my findings... all by people who themselves have not actually had any experience with the Sticks. I will be told I am an fool who is easily separated from his money (as per Nestor) or a person whose brain has fallen out (as per MarkW who uses other people's quotes to express himself), etc. etc.
Can you tell that this kind of attitude really irritates me? My post is long because I wanted to express all of this irritation.
 
L

lallygagging

Audioholic Intern
So I'm still not seeing where the credible proof is that anyone should waste any time or money to even begin to bother with these things, and lets be clear, it does cost money. You have to pay for these things and even though there is a money back guarantee, you're still most likely not getting back shipping to you or from you back to them. For something that doesn't come with a shred of credible evidence, it's not worth even the price of shipping to me.

You're absolutely right, hearing is totally subjective and what you hear is different from what I hear and that's different from what everyone else hears. However, that's why we have the objective stuff. To keep us from wasting money on things that don't offer any audible improvement. Because, I mean, there are people who believe in ghosts, bigfoot, the yeti, and many other things. Like with the tuning stick and many other marketing gimmicks, I'll wait for the proof that it will give me an audible difference and I won't spend a dime until then. What you and others hear and do with their money is totally and completely up to you and them. I respect your right to do so and your opinion that you hear what you hear. I also ask that you respect my right to think that, that's pretty silly.
You are correct. It does cost something to try products even if that amount is small. So, if you don't want to spend that amount to try, then don't. And I do respect your right to THINK the way you do. What I do not respect is your trying to convince others to think they way you do about something that you know nothing about because you haven't tried it. You say ''products that don't work'' but that is an assumption. How can you actually know a product doesn't doesn't work if you haven't actually tried it?
Your whole approach is hardly objective. In fact it is prejudicial.
But none of that bothers me really. You can be as sure of your assumptions and speculations as you wish to be. It is when you put them forth as fact and you use technical jargon to give weight to your assumptions that I take exception. If you said something like ''probably'' they don't work because...'' then that would be another matter.
But you don't. You put it forth as concrete fact and to make matters worse, you ridicule. You ridicule both the products and those who might actually have heard positive results. If we don't agree with you then we are audiophools. This whole thread is full of such ridicule. It started with the preview article written by Andy and it just rolled right on, prompting me to ask my original question.
And you slander the manufacturers. You put their integrity up to question. They are all crooks out to cheat us out of our hard earned money and the reviewers are all in cahoots with the manufacturers... that kind of stuff... none of which you have any hard evidence for but which does damage to reputations nonetheless.
That is the stuff I take very much exception with. This is what I object to.
By attempting to deter those who might be willing to spend the money to try, you are doing no one any service... especially if, contrary to your expectations, the product does actually work. But you are doing a disservice to many others.

You want to express your opinions, well go right ahead. I am all for that. But put them forth as opinions and not as fact.

I support your right to believe anything you want and more power to you. I just wish you would stop trying so hard to convince me and others like me to believe what you do... to believe things that you yourself cannot possibly know to be true because you have no actual experience. It would also be nice if you stopped trying to convince us that we are fools if we don't see it your way.

By the way, I agree with you when you say that the ''objective stuff'' helps us to not waste money and Audioholics is to be praised in its efforts to keep us apprised. But the truth is that in this instance, starting with the original article and continuing in this thread, there has not been one objective statement made by anyone about the Akiko Tuning Sticks.
 
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L

lallygagging

Audioholic Intern
Well, I live in Italy and here it is very very late. This has been fun, but for now I have to stop my participation because I am going to bed.
Good night all!
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
BUT neither do I form opinions, positive or negative, about things that I have not personally experienced.
Call me closed minded, but I do.

I think that having my head chopped off would kill me. It's killed other people, but I have not personally experienced it. Yet, I still have a negative opinion of it happening to me.

Taking a cheese grater to my groin? Negative opinion. Never done it...never going to. But, feel free if you want to draw your own conclusion from actual experience.

If someone tells me that Jupiter will turn green and dance if I lick my TV, I'll call BS. Yep, that's me - closed minded.

If you want to try them (which you do), then feel free. It's cool. I'm not going to judge you. Okay, I will, but you don't care. Because you'll have the sticks. Those incredibly expensive sticks with resin and what appears to be Velcro. Enjoy.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
You are correct. It does cost something to try products even if that amount is small. So, if you don't want to spend that amount to try, then don't. And I do respect your right to THINK the way you do. What I do not respect is your trying to convince others to think they way you do about something that you know nothing about because you haven't tried it.
Since this is my first post in this thread I don't see how that makes sense.

You say products that don't work but that is an assumption. How can you actually know a product doesn't doesn't work if you haven't actually tried it?
Your whole approach is hardly objective. In fact it is prejudicial.
I never said products that don't work so your use of quotes is inaccurate so I removed them ;) Actually all I did was criticize products that don't offer any proof of what they're supposed to do and proof that they work so you're just spinning your wheels on perceived slights.

But none of that bothers me really. You can be as sure of your assumptions and speculations as you wish to be. It is when you put them forth as fact and you use technical jargon to give weight to your assumptions that I take exception. If you said something like ''probably'' they don't work because...'' then that would be another matter.
But you don't. You put it forth as concrete fact and to make matters worse, you ridicule. You ridicule both the products and those who might actually have heard positive results. If we don't agree with you then we are audiophools. This whole thread is full of such ridicule. It started with the preview article written by Andy and it just rolled right on, prompting me to ask my original question.
I haven't done anything of the sort so now you're just regurgitating things you've already said. If you're going to have anger towards something or someone at least direct it in the right direction. :rolleyes:

And you slander the manufacturers.
Did not.

You put their integrity up to question.
Still didn't.

They are all crooks out to cheat us out of our hard earned money and the reviewers are all in cahoots with the manufacturers... that kind of stuff... none of which you have any hard evidence for but which does damage to reputations nonetheless.
Some are and deserve to be called out along with the reviewers who add to it.

That is the stuff I take very much exception with. This is what I object to.
By attempting to deter those who might be willing to spend the money to try, you are doing no one any service... especially if, contrary to your expectations, the product does actually work. But you are doing a disservice to many others.
Um...ok. I think this part has already been made pretty clear.

You want to express your opinions, well go right ahead. I am all for that. But put them forth as opinions and not as fact.
Already did that as far as I can tell.

I support your right to believe anything you want and more power to you. I just wish you would stop trying so hard to convince me and others like me to believe what you do... to believe things that you yourself cannot possibly know to be true because you have no actual experience. It would also be nice if you stopped trying to convince us that we are fools if we don't see it your way.
Now who's making assumptions ;) The guy who rants and raves against people slandering and calling into question things that go against or greatly exaggerate the science without having FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE then goes on to assume every single person who does so has never had any experience with this product or at least similar products. Irony :D

By the way, I agree with you when you say that the ''objective stuff'' helps us to not waste money and Audioholics is to be praised in its efforts to keep us apprised. But the truth is that in this instance, starting with the original article and continuing in this thread, there has not been one objective statement made by anyone about the Akiko Tuning Sticks.
Including yourself. I'll also look forward to your OBJECTIVE data on the tuning stick when you get it and have had some time to review it. Because, you know, it goes both ways with all the subjective opinions.;):D
 
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M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
In any case, lolly, with your propensity to want to believe in this sort of floobydust, and us being familiar with the placebo effect, I doubt any of us here would believe you if you said it made such a difference you could hear it from your fiat in the driveway.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
In any case, lolly, with your propensity to want to believe in this sort of floobydust, and us being familiar with the placebo effect, I doubt any of us here would believe you if you said it made such a difference you could hear it from your fiat in the driveway.
Floobydust. Awesome :D
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
I also note that the prices are listed in euros. I guess they know that Americans have too much sense to buy into this. Then again, we've got Machina Dynamica so I guess I shouldn't get too cocky.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Really? You don't understand what I am trying to say? I suggest you go back and read it carefully because it is all expressed very clearly in good ol' American English.

My post is not about the tuning sticks. It is a commentary against the idea that one can seriously criticize something that he/she has not actually ever experienced, and not only criticize the thing it self but discredit the findings of those who have tried it and liked it.

But with respect to the Tuning Sticks:
I have ordered them. When I get them and have had some time to assess them, I will report my findings. But I doubt that most people on here will be interested in knowing what I find out because they are already they are convinced that they already know all about them. Let me qualify that. They will be uninterested if I report that they actually work. On the other hand, If my findings concur with what they already know to be true without trying them, that is, that they don't work at all, then they will be really interested in what I have to say.
If I report that they do work, my findings will have no merit. I will be told that I am imagining it. I might be ridiculed... those tactics and any others intended to discredit my findings... all by people who themselves have not actually had any experience with the Sticks. I will be told I am an fool who is easily separated from his money (as per Nestor) or a person whose brain has fallen out (as per MarkW who uses other people's quotes to express himself), etc. etc.
Can you tell that this kind of attitude really irritates me? My post is long because I wanted to express all of this irritation.
I looked and there is only one possible place in the U.S. that I can see getting them. I know on the Akiko website they list 15 days (better if it was 30 like most places) trial policy.

I say give them a shot.

What will get shot down around here is a subjective review. Now you come at it in a data driven manner, a well constructed and controlled SBT, there is verifiable by a third party (another AH'er that is local to you?). Well that puts meat on the plate.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Do you think they would be up to providing them, on loan, to Gene for testing and measuring? Do you think Gene would even bother?
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
This threads recent turn reminds me of a story...

Three fools are walking on a trail in the woods.

They round a bend and notice, a few hundred feet in front of them, a bull walking in the same direction as they are.

They then notice, about a foot in front of them, a small, brown, smoking mass in the middle of the road in front of them. They all stop and look at it.

Fool # 1 says, Hey, that looks line sh!t!"

Fool # 2 says "How do you know? Just because something looks like one thing it might be another. Maybe it's chocolate."

Fool # 3 says" Yeah, You don't know until you try it!"

Fool # 1 leans over and smells it and says : "Well, it sure smells like sh!t."

Fool # 2 then picks up a small amount, rubs it between his fingers, and says: "Well, it sure feels like sh!t."

Fool # 3 now picks up a little bit, puts it in his mouth, and says "It sure tastes like sh!t. I guess it is sh!t.".

They then look at each other and fool # 1 says, "Aren't you glad we didn't step in it."
 
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N

Nestor

Senior Audioholic
Isn't it delightful, that Nestor gifts us with this deep pearl of wisdom. Did you make this up yourself, Nestor?

It is my guess that you are someone who has never actually heard what the Akiko Tuning Sticks can or cannot do. If I am wrong, then I apologize.

Did you even read what I wrote in my last post?
I read what you posted. I also went to the Akiko audio website and read the Canada HiFi review. I don't see a single objective analysis of any claims by Akiko, or by any the reviewers.

I have enough background in electronics to recognize a scam. Maybe you don't.

My "pearl of wisdom" stands.
 
Marshall_Guthrie

Marshall_Guthrie

Audioholics Videographer Extraordinaire
I also note that the prices are listed in euros. I guess they know that Americans have too much sense to buy into this. Then again, we've got Machina Dynamica so I guess I shouldn't get too cocky.
I'd heard the story of the Timex clock before (looks like the Ultra Signature version is a Casio), but never heard which company sold such a thing. Having now looked at their website, I'm simply stupefied. More so when I see all these websites that want to be taken seriously giving glowing reviews of their products? The question is, is the proprietor of Machina Dynamica a con-artist or a jokester?
 
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