Adding an external power amplifier

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What's wrong with my speakers?
Not my favorites, but that's not the point. More to be gained by changing speakers than amps in general and mono blocks have little point to them.
 
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dlaloum

Full Audioholic
I have not actually seen a case yet where the speaker impedance cause the AVR to shut down.
I haven't either... but I have noticed an audible difference between low impedance speaker capable amps and those that aren't so gifted.
 
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dlaloum

Full Audioholic
If you are hitting current constraints caused by a power supply hitting its current limits - then a similar amp in monoblock format, would (all hypothetical of course) have double the available current as it would have two power supplies of the same size rather than one...

Yes, that would be an edge case... a minority within a minority... and of benefit only if your speakers require it.

The other benefit, is one that really is not practically audible... you do get increased seperation between the channels... but that is very very academic!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I haven't either... but I have noticed an audible difference between low impedance speaker capable amps and those that aren't so gifted.
I’ve seen The Audio Critic tested the ATI 60 Watts per channel amp for 1-ohms.

What other brand of amps have been tested/published for 1-ohm?
 
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philly

Junior Audioholic
Not my favorites, but that's not the point. More to be gained by changing speakers than amps in general and mono blocks have little point to them.
Well I'm very happy with these speakers and love the sound. I have a 5.2.2 configuration, hoping to soon increase to 7.2.4. I know these speakers are power hungry and I've heard separate amps would drive them more efficiently?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well I'm very happy with these speakers and love the sound. I have a 5.2.2 configuration, hoping to soon increase to 7.2.4. I know these speakers are power hungry and I've heard separate amps would drive them more efficiently?
What speakers particularly, how far do you sit from them and at what volume levels are you using? I wouldn't call separate amps efficient particularly (due all the components that are being duplicated) nor is crosstalk much of an issue.
 
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dlaloum

Full Audioholic
I’ve seen The Audio Critic tested the ATI 60 Watts per channel amp for 1-ohms.

What other brand of amps have been tested/published for 1-ohm?
Sadly, very few!

The Quad 606 manual has a chart specifying performance to impedance down to 1 ohm - very useful! wish others did that!

Some (still very few) provide specs down to 2 ohm.
 
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dlaloum

Full Audioholic
Well I'm very happy with these speakers and love the sound. I have a 5.2.2 configuration, hoping to soon increase to 7.2.4. I know these speakers are power hungry and I've heard separate amps would drive them more efficiently?
Efficiently.... that term could mean a bunch of different things! - could you provide more context as to what you are seeking?

In terms of "power hungry" - some speakers are difficult loads, and although they will go loud with many differing amps, won't sound their best unless driven with an amp that can provide substantial current and stability (ie: low distortion) into that low impedance... (they won't clip, so there is no obvious nasty... but they may not give their best performance, imaging could be impacted, dialogue intelligibility reduced etc...).
Other speakers aren't necessarily a difficult load, but are simply inefficient ie: limited db SPL's per watt - and therefore require more "simple" watts.... keeping in mind that db spl is an exponential scale, so an additional 3db of loudness (barely perceptible change of loudness) requires doubling of the watts (power) - in perception terms, "doubling" the loudness requires adding 8x the power so the amount of power needed can climb very quickly ... and with highly inefficient speakers can get BIG.

On the other hand, typical inefficient speakers of circa 86db/W will fill a room with sound at the typical average listening level (circa 75db), using between sub 1W (continuous) and peaks of no more than 4W. (!!)... but doubling that loudness level to 85db would require a move from 4W peaks to 32W peaks.

Typical theatre type targets put the peaks at 105db.... and for the same setup described above, that would be peak power needed of 2048W (!!!! - assuming your speakers don't blow up!)

So, substantially more context is needed as to what you mean by "more efficient"...
 
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philly

Junior Audioholic
Thank you for your great insight! My speakers [B&W 702s3] are rated at 300 watts max, 90db efficiency, 8ohm. I assumed giving them their own amp or amps [bi-amped] and freeing up the separate amp for the other 5/7 speakers would make them more efficient and possibly louder. Confused about the "variable" ohm thing, too. Maybe I'm misinformed!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thank you for your great insight! My speakers [B&W 702s3] are rated at 300 watts max, 90db efficiency, 8ohm. I assumed giving them their own amp or amps [bi-amped] and freeing up the separate amp for the other 5/7 speakers would make them more efficient and possibly louder. Confused about the "variable" ohm thing, too. Maybe I'm misinformed!
Might want to review this on speakers impedance and sensitivity https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-sensitivity

It's one thing to have a sufficient amp, another to use the biwiring/biamp terminals on speakers (or your avr) as that's mostly marketing and it is especially not the doubling of power most imagine.

ps Here's an audioholics article on the biwiring biamping thing https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring
 
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philly

Junior Audioholic
Might want to review this on speakers impedance and sensitivity https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-sensitivity

It's one thing to have a sufficient amp, another to use the biwiring/biamp terminals on speakers (or your avr) as that's mostly marketing and it is especially not the doubling of power most imagine.

ps Here's an audioholics article on the biwiring biamping thing https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring
Might want to review this on speakers impedance and sensitivity https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-sensitivity

It's one thing to have a sufficient amp, another to use the biwiring/biamp terminals on speakers (or your avr) as that's mostly marketing and it is especially not the doubling of power most imagine.

ps Here's an audioholics article on the biwiring biamping thing https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring
Thanks again. I've heard bi-amping is much more effective than bi-wiring. Also my av10 allows for BTL, which is how I have my fronts wired. Thoughts?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks again. I've heard bi-amping is much more effective than bi-wiring. Also my av10 allows for BTL, which is how I have my fronts wired. Thoughts?
Short summary bi-wiring is a waste of wire/time, passive bi-amping close behind and the general consensus if you want more power, to just use a more powerful amp rather than two amps.
 
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philly

Junior Audioholic
Short summary bi-wiring is a waste of wire/time, passive bi-amping close behind and the general consensus if you want more power, to just use a more powerful amp rather than two amps.
Is BTL mode more efficient or impactful than biamping?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Bridge tied load. Supposedly doubles the power to each speaker. [Look up specs on the Marantz av10]
I searched the pdf manual for btl and got zilch, that's why I asked. Bridging an an amp I can understand but not how it is used by a pre-pro. Bridging an amp can get you more power but at expense of impedance handling.....again, just get a sufficient amp.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Loudspeakers with an impedance going down below 3 ohms simply show bad design. The solution is not to get a sturdier amplifier but to replace the speaker with one that is better built.
 
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philly

Junior Audioholic
I searched the pdf manual for btl and got zilch, that's why I asked. Bridging an an amp I can understand but not how it is used by a pre-pro. Bridging an amp can get you more power but at expense of impedance handling.....again, just get a sufficient amp.
I apologize I meant to say the AMP10. I have both. there are three selections: normal, biamp, and BTL
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I apologize I meant to say the AMP10. I have both. there are three selections: normal, biamp, and BTL
Thanks, amp makes more sense :) Will take a look but same principles apply. Nice to have options as not all amps can be bridged, let alone being worthwhile....
 

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