A Sad Day for the Good Old Boob-Tube!

[hyghwayman]

I just read recently that Sony was out of the CRT business (no longer producing tube TVs). Wonder who's next to follow and what are they thinking? CRT TVs have the best PQ IMO, even my SD digital JVC has a better PQ than most Plasma/LCD I've seen in the stores. I know CRT TVs max out at a small size of 36" and are big/heavy but that's not a bad thing.

I guess I should be happy I was able to get my hands on one of the last great boob-tubes made. I've had my Sony KD-34XBR970 for 4 months now and love it. I know some day I will have to buy into the newer technology, just hope it isn't any time soon.

I would like to hear other members thoughts, so please post them.

hyghwayman

 

[emorphien]

A lot of the recent CRTs I'd seen had relatively poor geometry. Very little annoys me more than a scene panning across a building or other straight object just to see it warp and distort.

 

[hyghwayman]

Geometry and my HD CRT TV

A lot of the recent CRTs I'd seen had relatively poor geometry. Very little annoys me more than a scene panning across a building or other straight object just to see it warp and distort.

As you can see from my photo, I have a slight geometry issue in the upper left corner, not enough for me to lose sleep over.

 

[avaserfi]

I had a crt tv and I couldn't stand the geometry issues especially when it came to gaming, something about my perfectionist nature. When it comes to pq I think high quality flats generally meet the standards of CRT tvs if not exceed. The secret is proper calibration, something you will almost never see in stores.

 

[Adam]

I understand the love for CRTs. I still have one for my TV, but I switched from a CRT computer monitor to an LCD and didn't like the picture quality initially. However, the ergonomics of an LCD crush that of a CRT, IMO (lighter, easier to move, takes less space).

CRTs took a while to perfect, as will the new flat panel technologies. They'll get there, though. When I saw my brother's LCD last year, I thought that it looked great except from the sides, and off-angle viewing is getting better all of the time. LCDs and plasmas should keep getting better and cheaper, and I'm happy to see companies making an investment in those and other new display technologies.

 

[MDS]

However, the ergonomics of an LCD crush that of a CRT, IMO (lighter, easier to move, takes less space).

Although your true 'videophiles' will argue those factors are meaningless and only the PQ matters, I think they are important too.

I love my 20.1" LCD computer monitor compared to the many CRTs I've had in the past - zero geometry problems.

I just ditched the behemoth 32" CRT in my living room and will be getting a 46" Sharp LCD (slim chance of going for the 52'). It is much bigger and yet weighs only slightly more than half of the old CRT.

 

[Rob Babcock]

While flat screens are getting much better (I'm using a 19" ViewSonic LCD at my PC right now) unless something's changed recently you won't find any of them in use in professional CAD applications and the like. CRT is still the king where price is no object and quality is the only concern. Color accuracy of a CRT is hard to beat.

BTW, I just recieved my Barco 701 CRT front projector this week! Hopefully, after six years of DLP I'll have something I've never had before- real blacks!

 

[Seth=L]

BTW, I just recieved my Barco 701 CRT front projector this week! Hopefully, after six years of DLP I'll have something I've never had before- real blacks!

Wow, a Barco, nice. Have fun adjusting it.

 

[emorphien]

Although your true 'videophiles' will argue those factors are meaningless and only the PQ matters, I think they are important too.

I love my 20.1" LCD computer monitor compared to the many CRTs I've had in the past - zero geometry problems.

The main reason I switched to LCDs for my computer, despite my love for photography, was migraines. Even at high refresh rates I could never get away from the problem that CRTs were just fatiguing for my eyes and my family is migraine prone.

While flat screens are getting much better (I'm using a 19" ViewSonic LCD at my PC right now) unless something's changed recently you won't find any of them in use in professional CAD applications and the like. CRT is still the king where price is no object and quality is the only concern. Color accuracy of a CRT is hard to beat.

CAD? CAD would benefit from the perfect geometry of an LCD, I don't see why color would matter much.

Photography people still love their CRTs but a lot have been switching away as especially in the last couple years LCDs have improved a lot.

 

[Adam]

While flat screens are getting much better (I'm using a 19" ViewSonic LCD at my PC right now) unless something's changed recently you won't find any of them in use in professional CAD applications and the like. CRT is still the king where price is no object and quality is the only concern. Color accuracy of a CRT is hard to beat.

Just FYI, I work with a number of folks doing CAD work for a professional company, and they all use LCDs and have been for about three or four years.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Just FYI, I work with a number of folks doing CAD work for a professional company, and they all use LCDs and have been for about three or four years.

I will readily admit to being hopelessly out of date. And I would hate to give up my ViewSonic computer monitor. One funny thing I notice, though- if I look at screen shots taken from peoples HT systems their black levels never look very good on my monitor. Of course, if I'm browsing at work on the ancient CRT in my office I can see some amazing blacks! But not on my LCD.

As for the Barco, we shall see. I suspect all the talk about constant adjustment is 90% myth. I researched CRT for a long time before I bought and chatted with many owners, by net and by phone. The concenus seemed to be some models have convergence problems and drift a lot, but that's mostly the older analog sets. Even so, I have seen well set up CRT FPTVs, and the picture is well worth the work!

 

[emorphien]

One funny thing I notice, though- if I look at screen shots taken from peoples HT systems their black levels never look very good on my monitor. Of course, if I'm browsing at work on the ancient CRT in my office I can see some amazing blacks! But not on my LCD.

That statement is near as much as meaningless because unless everyone is calibrating their displays to the same standard, there's no comparing that can be legitimately done when looking at images.

 

[Rob Babcock]

That statement is near as much as meaningless because unless everyone is calibrating their displays to the same standard, there's no comparing that can be legitimately done when looking at images.

That was a bit of a joke. But there's a kernel of truth to it- as much as I like my ViewSonic it can't do very black black. I occasionally use it to watch DVDs and its shortcomings are pretty obvious. No fixed pixel display that I've seen can even approach CRT for black levels, although supposedly the new breed of D-ILA machines are getting there. I believe the new JVC PJ is also able to make its rated 15,ooo to 1 contrast ratio, which is excellent (almost half the CR of a good CRT).

 

[WmAx]

That was a bit of a joke. But there's a kernel of truth to it- as much as I like my ViewSonic it can't do very black black. I occasionally use it to watch DVDs and its shortcomings are pretty obvious. No fixed pixel display that I've seen can even approach CRT for black levels, although supposedly the new breed of D-ILA machines are getting there. I believe the new JVC PJ is also able to make its rated 15,ooo to 1 contrast ratio, which is excellent (almost half the CR of a good CRT).

I have an IBM P260 that was converged/aligned not that long ago, and really does not have that many hours on it(used sparingly). It is a Sony FD Trinitron tube graphics CRT re-badge. I tried to adjust the same picture on one of the late model Panasonic plasmas praised for it's 'excellent' black levels. The plasma, no matter what adjustment I made, could not match the black level resolving ability of the CRT, side by side. However, it was close enough, I suppose. Generally, this plasma is very close to an excellent CRT, so far as general color gamut and contrast range. Better than any LCD I have tried at this point. As I have little hope for LCDs to become on par with a very good CRT any time soon ( 2 years ) in multiple respects, I might end up getting a 42" Pioneer or Panasonic 1080P HD plasma and using that for a computer monitor. With calibration, I think it should be close enough that I will not really notice except for side by side comparison(s).

-Chris

 

[Hi Ho]

I dumped both of my cheapo CRT monitors for LCD's in the past six months. The 20.1" Westinghouse LCD monitors I now have blow away the (cheap) CRTs in just about every aspect. I'm not the biggest videophile but I do go for a good quality image. The black levels are very good on these monitors as long as it's not a totally black screen. It is there that you can see that it is obviously an LCD but even that really doesn't bother me at all. I'll take the sharp, crisp, and brilliant images any day over a glare prone CRT.

Now, as far as CRT TVs are concerned I say good riddance! I have to carry those damn things around every day when they break. Just last Thursday I had to get a 36" Sony flat tube down from a 6' high mantle. After it's repaired it will have to go back up. I much prefer new installation to service work. DLPs, LCDs, and plasmas are much easier on the back.

I still have a 27" Sanyo tube as my main TV. It will eventually be replaced but it's still working great and has excellent image quality. I have a Mitsubishi DLP projector for movies.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Plasma is a bit akin to CRT in a way. I've never seen a plasma set I could live with long term, though- there are a few artifacts that bug me (false contouring is evident in almost every plasma set I've ever seen, but I quit looking a year ago, so they've probably gotten better).

 

[Rob Babcock]

I dumped both of my cheapo CRT monitors for LCD's in the past six months. The 20.1" Westinghouse LCD monitors I now have blow away the (cheap) CRTs in just about every aspect. I'm not the biggest videophile but I do go for a good quality image. The black levels are very good on these monitors as long as it's not a totally black screen. It is there that you can see that it is obviously an LCD but even that really doesn't bother me at all. I'll take the sharp, crisp, and brilliant images any day over a glare prone CRT.

Hey, I also love LCD monitors! So don't think I'm bashing 'em. But to compare a really nice higher end LCD with a real el cheapo CRT doesn't tell the whole story, especially if neither are calibrated. Adjust the gamma and do a basic calibration and your "cheapo" CRT might really surprise you, too. CRTs really do need competant setup to 'strut their stuff' as any monitor does.

Now, as far as CRT TVs are concerned I say good riddance! I have to carry those damn things around every day when they break. Just last Thursday I had to get a 36" Sony flat tube down from a 6' high mantle. After it's repaired it will have to go back up. I much prefer new installation to service work. DLPs, LCDs, and plasmas are much easier on the back.

Sure, they're lighter, I'll give you that one! Although CRTs don't really fail all that often. If I was buying a direct view or RPTV I would also opt for DLP (never found an LCD I could live with long-term).

I still have a 27" Sanyo tube as my main TV. It will eventually be replaced but it's still working great and has excellent image quality. I have a Mitsubishi DLP projector for movies.

I've long used DLP projectors for movies, and I nearly bought a Mitsubishi before I went with my Barco 701. Time will tell if I made the right choice.

 

[Hi Ho]

Hey, I also love LCD monitors! So don't think I'm bashing 'em. But to compare a really nice higher end LCD with a real el cheapo CRT doesn't tell the whole story, especially if neither are calibrated. Adjust the gamma and do a basic calibration and your "cheapo" CRT might really surprise you, too. CRTs really do need competant setup to 'strut their stuff' as any monitor does.

No amount of tweaking could save my old monitor. It was a CTL 17" that cost $80 five years ago. It was dim to begin with and only got worse. It had terrible contrast. I couldn't see at all in dark areas of games no matter what I did. It is not a fair comparison to make, that is for sure. Anything is better than my old monitor.

I have calibrated the new ones as best I can without getting too much into it. The newer Westinghouse has much better black levels and a much better viewing angle than the one I bought 6 months ago. It definetely competes well with Samsung which costs nearly $200 more for the same size screen.

Sure, they're lighter, I'll give you that one! Although CRTs don't really fail all that often. If I was buying a direct view or RPTV I would also opt for DLP (never found an LCD I could live with long-term).

When your customer base reaches back over 40 years and spans nearly 1/4 of Washington state then you get to do quite a bit of service work on CRT's.

I've long used DLP projectors for movies, and I nearly bought a Mitsubishi before I went with my Barco 701. Time will tell if I made the right choice.

I'm sure the picture quality will be amazing on that thing! Not all of us have room for a behemoth like that though, or the patience to keep it adjusted.

 

[j_garcia]

Anyone see that Dell announced last week it would be getting out of LCD TVs? They can't compete with the big names.

I prefer CRT - currently have a Sony 34" WS, but my next one will be a big LCD or a projector if I can figure out how to mount one in my room.

36" isn't the max. I used to have a 42" Mitsubishi CRT in our classroom for teaching CAD. Yes, almost all CAD people today use LCD.

 

[no. 5]

Yes, almost all CAD people today use LCD.

Yep, we got rid of our CRTs years ago.... heck, even our new CNC machines have LCDs.