A new PB13-Ultra and an old PB12 Plus/2 compared

[Warpdrv]

Warpdrv,

thanks, you said more in that one eloquent post than I did with all my waffle and pics.

I'm starting to wonder how a stacked pair of gloss black ultras will look.

Thanks Adrian...
Yeah baby... great idea...

Also, seeing as you have the wherewithal, you might want to consider waiting to see how the SVS-EQ pans out.
I think it will be more expensive, but hey, Its all about the quality...

Oh and If possible, I prefer non collocated subs, as they smooth out the FR in the room, I have experimented with this quite a bit in my room, if its possible in your living space...

 

[AdrianMills]

Thanks Adrian...
Yeah baby... great idea...

Also, seeing as you have the wherewithal, you might want to consider waiting to see how the SVS-EQ pans out.
I think it will be more expensive, but hey, Its all about the quality...

Oh and If possible, I prefer non collocated subs, as they smooth out the FR in the room, I have experimented with this quite a bit in my room, if its possible in your living space...

Hm, yeah, the SVS-EQ will be interesting to see how it turns out. The REW option is relatively cheap though even over here and may be fun to get just to play with.

My first big sub was the PB12 plus, then got the Plus/2 in addition and I seemed to have cancelation issues when they were both running non-collocated so I got rid of the plus. I only have 2 locations in my living room where subs of this size can sit (unless I do some major rearranging) so I guess the same issues will arise again unless I collocate.

 

[Duffinator]

I'm starting to wonder how a stacked pair of gloss black ultras will look.

Not good. I was at RMK's house when he did the demo with two 13 Ultra's and two F113's. The F113's were on top of the 13 Ultra's sitting on a towel and in certain loud scenes would push themselves off the back. I don't recommend it.

The 13 Ultra's rock like you would not believe, congratulations!

 

[clwendy]

Have you tried using the PB13 without the SMS? The SMS is known to cut a lot of the low frequency sounds.

 

[Ron Temple]

Adrian, great review and along the same lines of my initial reactions vs. dual pluses. It didn't take me very long because music is how I demo subs, but it mirrors my reaction. The more music you listen to, the more you don't want to go back. That being said, there are many HT scenes that floored me with the duals, that I just nod my head at with the Ultra. It's not SPL, it's shockwave...a totally different tactile feel to the bass signature...waves vs. impact. One is not specifically superior just different.
Enjoy your winter toy...

 

[Warpdrv]

Adrian, great review and along the same lines of my initial reactions vs. dual pluses. It didn't take me very long because music is how I demo subs, but it mirrors my reaction. The more music you listen to, the more you don't want to go back. That being said, there are many HT scenes that floored me with the duals, that I just nod my head at with the Ultra. It's not SPL, it's shockwave...a totally different tactile feel to the bass signature...waves vs. impact. One is not specifically superior just different.
Enjoy your winter toy...

Thanks Ron... that is a great description... I have never really looked at it that way...

 

[AdrianMills]

Have you tried using the PB13 without the SMS? The SMS is known to cut a lot of the low frequency sounds.

No, I didn't try a direct connection but I've updated the SMS-1 to the 2.1.3 firmware which as far as I'm aware alleviates this issue.

I haven't read any tests from Ilkka (et al) on the new firmware though... Anyone heard if there are any issues?

Maybe I'll try with a direct connection tonight just for a laugh.


Duffinator, did you or the others feel that stacked Ultras were worth the effort? Is there a link somewhere to that session I guess it was over on AVS?

Hey Ron, that's exactly it. For HT I think it's definitely going to be a preference thing between the two but for music I don't think the plus/2 competes in the same league.

 

[Duffinator]

Duffinator, did you or the others feel that stacked Ultras were worth the effort? Is there a link somewhere to that session I guess it was over on AVS?

I would not stack them. The two JL F113's were on top of the two 13 Ultra's and with deep excursion would push themselves off the back. I'm not kidding on that. I really can't imagine needing more than one 13 Ultra unless you have a massive HT room or you like to repair drywall cracks on a regular basis.

I thought there was a thread on AH as well but I can't find it. Yes there's a thread on AVS with pictures. Search Sacramento and you should find it.

 

[saubouin]

Thanks for all the info Adrian. Based on your post i just ordered this thing. Hopefully it'll get here soon!

Sebastien

 

[croseiv]

Thanks for all the info Adrian. Based on your post i just ordered this thing. Hopefully it'll get here soon!

Sebastien

If you just ordered a PB13-Ultra, you will be waiting until early March (according to the website). They've already sold out of the recent shipment of amps.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

You can easily stack them just dont use towels use an acoustic dampening material, they will not slide off of that.

I would not stack them. The two JL F113's were on top of the two 13 Ultra's and with deep excursion would push themselves off the back. I'm not kidding on that. I really can't imagine needing more than one 13 Ultra unless you have a massive HT room or you like to repair drywall cracks on a regular basis.

I thought there was a thread on AH as well but I can't find it. Yes there's a thread on AVS with pictures. Search Sacramento and you should find it.

 

[AdrianMills]

You can easily stack them just dont use towels use an acoustic dampening material, they will not slide off of that.

Over here we have some seriously soft rubber sheeting that's used under rugs to stop them wandering on hardwood/tiled floors and it’s extremely effective too. Not sure what it's called but I guess that would not only provide protection between the two but also stop the top sub from wandering.

Oh, and I thought I'd just mention that I noticed on the front cover of the Ultra manual that it explicitly states that the model is a single driver Ultra. Hm, this, maybe, sort of, possibly implies that a dual SVS Gotham lookalike really is in the works.

 

[AdrianMills]

I posted this over on avf this morning. :-/
----------------------------------------
I've been turning my Ultra off at the APC block I have it connected to as the switch on the amp is just too awkward to reach; call me a tree hugger if you want but I think it's pretty much irresponsible and unnecessary to keep things powered up when not in use these days. For what it’s worth, turning off also reduces the risk of electrical fires, even if by a very small percentage.

Well, this has worked fine up until this morning; every morning I get up switch on my setup to play some background while I wake up, I switch it off to go to work, then on when I get home and off again to go to bed.

Now, this morning, nothing. No Woomphf as it powers up, no light either, nothing.

Sub is in the "on" setting as auto on requires too much signal for it to kick in and is unusable for me.

I must admit, and I said/implied it on my AH review, I'm not at all impressed with the amps build quality. The sub, and driver yes and the sound, yes, incredible. The amp though... It came with a loose LFE connector plug and the on/auto toggle switch feels rough like it has sand in there. There really shouldn't be this issue with long capacitor draining times; seriously, none of my other SVS subs have had this “feature” and I haven't heard of other quality subs that require it either.

Given the other amp issues they had in the US that had to be resolved I'm starting to wonder if SVS cut corners on the amp so as to bring this incredible driver and box onto the market at a sweet spot price.

Really, I'd prefer to pay more and get a quality amp in there guys.

And I'm also now wondering if I should have pulled the trigger on that Fathom F113 I was offered instead.

 

[mike c]

are you 220v?

 

[AdrianMills]

are you 220v?

Yes, there are a bunch of people in the UK too that are complaining about the long cycle times due to the capacitor discharge "feature". People in the US have also reported this issue. Sometimes it's extreme and I've seen reports of day long downtimes waiting for the sub to start.

I'll see what my sub looks like when I get home from work.

 

[biggsly5000]

Thanks for the comparison. I have had the Plus 2 for about three years and it no longer impresses me with power like it used too. Time to start eating Noodles again and saving my lunch money for a new sub, maybe the Ultra, I will have time to look around while I save, so I will have a few months to shop. By the way do you know the link to where ILKKA tests his subs?

 

[croseiv]

What if you just leave the sub on always?

 

[AdrianMills]

What if you just leave the sub on always?

uh, it will use power.

BTW, the sub fired up 12 hours after the incident and it hasn't repeated.

 

[AdrianMills]

Thanks for the comparison. I have had the Plus 2 for about three years and it no longer impresses me with power like it used too. Time to start eating Noodles again and saving my lunch money for a new sub, maybe the Ultra, I will have time to look around while I save, so I will have a few months to shop. By the way do you know the link to where ILKKA tests his subs?

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/

 

[AdrianMills]

Update - U13 amp replacement

I thought it was about time I took the effort to update this thread.

After my concerns about the U13 amp back at the end of January I decided to ask LSound (the European distributor) for a new amp. They promptly agreed with apologies and within a week the new amp had arrived.

Whatever you think about their products and marketing practices you have to agree that first class customer service and support seems to synonymous with SVS and their distributors.

One thing that struck me immediately, even before I opened the box containing the new amp, was how light it was. Yes, I know, D-class and all that, but I expected some weight from the plate the amp is built on. But no, the "plate" is plastic; really, the amp has a very "cheap" look and feel to it.





Its saving grace are the beefy capacitors.



I was a little worried about replacing the amp myself incase I damaged its finish but the operation was quite painless.



Although it's one heavy mother and not possible to slide because of the rubber feet all you really need to do is put a carpet by its side and tip it over which even a desk jockey like myself can manage.



SVS supplies the appropriate bit to remove the screws and a bit extender if needed.





The instructions you get with the new amp are a little off though. It talks of removing the crimps from the old amp and putting them on the new. Hey, they were soldered. Not only that but the new amp also came with a set of wires with dangling crimps - yes, they could have been fixed to the driver but that requires that the driver be removed and I wasn't feeling that adventurous. I took the easy option and fixed it by cutting the wires off the old amp, joining them to the crimps on the new wires and for good measure I wrapped a good deal of insulating tape on the joins.



One picture I lost somewhere is the new FR. I will try to get one done tonight or at least this weekend. As far as I could tell, and I'm going be memory here, the FR below 25Hz seemed to have significantly more gain than it had with the old amp. I can only think that the either the old amp really was a bad one or that the room correction system on the old amp was kicking in even though I had it switched off.

One more improvement I noticed; the on and off "woomph" is significantly less with the new amp.

Other than that it sounds as good as it ever did if not better. It really is an incredible piece of equipment and my only complaint, as always, is the build quality of the amp on this thing.