10k budget for mains

[moves]

But you haven't answered my question what about the T3 don't you like? You mentioned the T2, not the T3 in your response

Sorry I meant the T3

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think in terms of speaker measurement and accuracy of the speakers you have looked at, the accurate speakers are PSB and Salon2.

B&W, Totem, Legacy, and especially Wilson Audio don't usually measure as accurately.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have Totem Forests which are beautiful but lets face it, they are a small tower. I am looking for something that can move a lot of air. The 802 and the new 803s do this. The 803 is beautiful but is 20k CAD. That's too much for that. I am a fan of used equipment in 9/10 or 10/10 condition. The T2s are beautiful as well but for 10k new.... I am not sure. I am seriously contemplating on Revel Salon2... I know I know..... everyone thinks they are amazing.

I sold my 1 year old like-new piano black B&W 802 D2 to a guy who lives in Canada. He said he owned a trucking company. So he sent a big truck to my house and picked up the 802 D2. I can't recall the exact numbers. But I think for around 10K. Maybe 9.5K. Around there.

Another AH member here just sold his like-new 802 D2 for about 10K. So if you are looking for 802D2 mint condition, 10K is the magic number.

 

[moves]

I thought the B&Ws put out more bass than the Salon2s but I may just not have been to the right music. It's so hard to compare. You listen to one set of speakers one week.... then another set another week and you try and go by what you remember. What is important to me is how the music sounds to my ears. If one speaker is less accurate than the next, so be it. If the less accurate speaker sounds better than the measured more accurate one then I would opt for the one that sounds better to me. This is a subjective business and it is interesting to hear everyones ideas.


In my previous post about me raving about the 803s... I mean the new 803s that just came out. They sound wonderful.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I thought the B&Ws put out more bass than the Salon2s but I may just not have been to the right music. It's so hard to compare. You listen to one set of speakers one week.... then another set another week and you try and go by what you remember. What is important to me is how the music sounds to my ears. If one speaker is less accurate than the next, so be it. If the less accurate speaker sounds better than the measured more accurate one then I would opt for the one that sounds better to me. This is a subjective business and it is interesting to hear everyones ideas.


In my previous post about me raving about the 803s... I mean the new 803s that just came out. They sound wonderful.

In every room I've room I've heard them (several), the B&W 800D and 802D both have more midbass output in every recording than the Salon2s do. These were well set up systems, with the speakers in large, high-ceiling rooms, several feet away from the side and back walls. I consider it a B&W coloration, but the B&W owners I've met like it a lot, and consider the Salon2s too lean.

IMO, high accuracy, meaning relatively flat in-room frequency response, is not for everyone. Most commercial recordings are not very realistic. Several people have given me the feedback that they prefer other speakers to my Salon2s, even when I demonstrate the Salon2s accuracy.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I thought the B&Ws put out more bass than the Salon2s but I may just not have been to the right music. It's so hard to compare. You listen to one set of speakers one week.... then another set another week and you try and go by what you remember. What is important to me is how the music sounds to my ears. If one speaker is less accurate than the next, so be it. If the less accurate speaker sounds better than the measured more accurate one then I would opt for the one that sounds better to me. This is a subjective business and it is interesting to hear everyones ideas.


In my previous post about me raving about the 803s... I mean the new 803s that just came out. They sound wonderful.

It is difficult to compare speakers based on week-to-week comparisons at different locations/ different systems.

The best, but difficult to achieve, comparison is side-by-side volume-level matched with instant switching.

And yes, ultimately you listen to your speakers for pure enjoyment; so the actual subjective preference is salient, not any speaker measurement.

When I had the Salon2 side-by-side with the 802 D2 (volume level match/instant switching), I thought the Salon2 unequivocally had significantly more bass during "Hotel California" from Eagle's Hell Freezes Over album. The Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1 also had significantly more bass than the 802D2 side-by-side for "Hotel California". I thought the Philharmonic 3 had about the same bass level as the 802 D2.

 

[shadyJ]

Elevated bass, mids, treble, yadda yadda yadda, who cares when these speakers can be EQ'd. What's nice about the Salon 2's is that they can be EQ'd predictably due to their very uniform off-axis response. If you are spending 5 figures on a speaker, and doing nothing to EQ the response, you are a lost cause. The room determines the bass sound more than the speaker does anyway, assuming the bass response of the speaker isn't totally out-of-whack.

 

[moves]

In every room I've room I've heard them (several), the B&W 800D and 802D both have more midbass output in every recording than the Salon2s do. These were well set up systems, with the speakers in large, high-ceiling rooms, several feet away from the side and back walls. I consider it a B&W coloration, but the B&W owners I've met like it a lot, and consider the Salon2s too lean.

IMO, high accuracy, meaning relatively flat in-room frequency response, is not for everyone. Most commercial recordings are not very realistic. Several people have given me the feedback that they prefer other speakers to my Salon2s, even when I demonstrate the Salon2s accuracy.

Yea maybe that is why the Salon2s didn't blow me away. Don't get me wrong, they sound great. Especially the tweeter, but I was expecting more bass and more of something else but I don't know what

 

[moves]

It is difficult to compare speakers based on week-to-week comparisons at different locations/ different systems.

The best, but difficult to achieve, comparison is side-by-side volume-level matched with instant switching.
.

Yes that would be the perfect world.... Maybe I should open up a shop where I can supply Revel, Totem, PSB, B&W, RBH, and Funk all in one store and set up the higher end speakers side by side so customers can compare.

Oh... and maybe I just don't like accurate speakers. What do you think of the RBH? I mean I know you like them but compared to the Salon2 and the B&W?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes that would be the perfect world.... Maybe I should open up a shop where I can supply Revel, Totem, PSB, B&W, RBH, and Funk all in one store and set up the higher end speakers side by side so customers can compare.

Oh... and maybe I just don't like accurate speakers. What do you think of the RBH? I mean I know you like them but compared to the Salon2 and the B&W?

Years ago back when I was auditioning speakers to buy, I thought the RBH T2 (2 speaker generations ago) sounded a lot more impressive to me (in terms of music detail/resolution, bass, dynamics) than all the speakers I was listening too (Salon2, 800D, KEF 201/2, Linkwitz Orion, and many others). Only problem back then was that the old RBH T2 was way too ugly for me. So I didn't buy them.

Then the RBH SX series came out, and they improved aesthetics. So I sold my Revel, B&W, KEF, and just about everything and got the RBH SX T2/R.

Then several months later, I became a dealer for RBH.

 

[moves]

Years ago back when I was auditioning speakers to buy, I thought the RBH T2 (2 speaker generations ago) sounded a lot more impressive to me (in terms of music detail/resolution, bass, dynamics) than all the speakers I was listening too (Salon2, 800D, KEF 201/2, Linkwitz Orion, and many others). Only problem back then was that the old RBH T2 was way too ugly for me. So I didn't buy them.

Then the RBH SX series came out, and they improved aesthetics. So I sold my Revel, B&W, KEF, and just about everything and got the RBH SX T2/R.

Then several months later, I became a dealer for RBH.

Interesting! So you opened up a shop?

 

[rojo]

Interesting! So you opened up a shop?

The shop is for his "medical" marijuana sales. He just sells audio equipment on the side.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Elevated bass, mids, treble, yadda yadda yadda, who cares when these speakers can be EQ'd. What's nice about the Salon 2's is that they can be EQ'd predictably due to their very uniform off-axis response. If you are spending 5 figures on a speaker, and doing nothing to EQ the response, you are a lost cause. The room determines the bass sound more than the speaker does anyway, assuming the bass response of the speaker isn't totally out-of-whack.

Are you talking bass EQ, or full-range EQ? If the former, I agree. If the latter, I don't.

 

[shadyJ]

Are you talking bass EQ, or full-range EQ? If the former, I agree. If the latter, I don't.

I am talking about full range EQ. If you want your speaker to sound 'edgy' or 'forward' or 'warm', just give a boost to the corresponding frequency ranges.

 

[3db]

I have Totem Forests which are beautiful but lets face it, they are a small tower. I am looking for something that can move a lot of air. The 802 and the new 803s do this. The 803 is beautiful but is 20k CAD. That's too much for that. I am a fan of used equipment in 9/10 or 10/10 condition. The T2s are beautiful as well but for 10k new.... I am not sure. I am seriously contemplating on Revel Salon2... I know I know..... everyone thinks they are amazing.

I know speaker choice is personal but I don't believe that the 803s can move more air than the T3s.
See this..

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/2y0jy7/hello_down_there/

 

[moves]

I know speaker choice is personal but I don't believe that the 803s can move more air than the T3s.
See this..

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/2y0jy7/hello_down_there/

Drive down to the Kanata Audio centre and take a listen. I personally think they do. Who are those people talking in the forum link you added? They are talking about the 804s not the 803s.

 

[shadyJ]

The 803s might have a more elevated response in bass regions, but that isn't the same thing as having more capability in bass regions. T3 has three 7" woofers, and the 803 has two, so the 803 bass drivers would need 50% more throw just to equal the T3 in bass capability. That may or may not be the case. The thing is, a decent affordable sub will blow either away in bass playback, in quality as well as quantity, so who cares. If you actually care about performance, who needs all those woofers when you can have a couple subwoofers. Get the bookshelf speaker equivalent and a couple of $1k Hsu or Rythmik subs, and you have a system that performs at a higher levels for less money.

 

[3db]

Drive down to the Kanata Audio centre and take a listen. I personally think they do. Who are those people talking in the forum link you added? They are talking about the 804s not the 803s.

I might just have to take a hike up there and here for myself. Its closer than the Bank Street location.
I'm not criticizing your choice as speaker tastes are subjective and what you may like I may not and visa versa. Its the words of moving more air that had me baffled as the T3s have 3 7" woofers. That's a lot of driver.

 

[3db]

The 803s might have a more elevated response in bass regions, but that isn't the same thing as having more capability in bass regions. T3 has three 7" woofers, and the 803 has two, so the 803 bass drivers would need 50% more throw just to equal the T3 in bass capability.

That was my thinking and the reason for my previous post.

 

[moves]

I guess what you are saying makes sense but from what I heard, the 803s sounded deeper. However, it may have been the song difference as well as the volume.... I didn't keep track of any of this so I guess I can't TRULY compare.