Denon 5805- NOT a powerhouse receiver!

Gene,

What do you think of Sound and Vision's recent test results that showed the Denon 5805 as producing 121 Watts X 5 into 8 ohms? That is a miserable rating, especially for a $6,000, 100 pound, flagship receiver.

As a 5805 owner I am pissed.

Any comments?

-Brian

Is it loud enough for you? If it is then it has all the power you need it to have.

So, I take it you were satisfied with it until you read the review?

...just a little someting for others to think about when reading specs and attributing too much importance to reading them as opposed to listening.

Were you honestly expecting an AVR to compete with monoblocks in sheer output? Of course it can't. But it still outperforms 99/100 AVRs already in the marketplace.

Did you read the whole report?

It stated that the 5805 performed at or near historic levels. And it also had a software glitch.

But I'm sure it sounded better before you read the Lab report.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/DenonAVR-5805lab.pdf

briansmith said:

Gene,

What do you think of Sound and Vision's recent test results that showed the Denon 5805 as producing 121 Watts X 5 into 8 ohms? That is a miserable rating, especially for a $6,000, 100 pound, flagship receiver.

As a 5805 owner I am pissed.

Any comments?

-Brian

Click to expand...

Excuse me? You think you will need full power to all 5 channels at the exact same time? When???

The single channel is 205 watts!!!
Stereo is 185 watts a clipping!!!
What are you looking for?

If you need 400 watts or more, maybe a Crown?? or something else

Rock&Roll Ninja said:

Were you honestly expecting an AVR to compete with monoblocks in sheer output? Of course it can't. .

Click to expand...

Which ones cannot outperform? When will the need be there to outperform in all channels at the same instant???

briansmith said:

Gene,

What do you think of Sound and Vision's recent test results that showed the Denon 5805 as producing 121 Watts X 5 into 8 ohms? That is a miserable rating, especially for a $6,000, 100 pound, flagship receiver.

As a 5805 owner I am pissed.

Any comments?

-Brian

Click to expand...

Uhm. About 70 percent of the rated power(170 watts) that I presume you expected? I don't know if Denon claimed that rating(170 watts) with all channels driven, but I doubt they did. So....you have less than 1db difference from what you expected from each channel(assuming you somehow manage to find a way to use 5 channels driven to maximum simultaneously in real-use)? I don't think 1dB makes a hill of beans, but maybe that's just me?

-Chris

"...just a little someting for others to think about when reading specs and attributing too much importance to reading them as opposed to listening".

AGREED.

Gene has some very interesting bench test results you should all enjoy soon.

Still, there is no excuse for the overrating here.

Check this out...

www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/harmonkardonAVR7300lab.pdf

This is why, had the AVR7300 been a little more affordable, I would have went with it over the 3805. There are very few companies that don't over rate their receivers. Harman Kardon is one of those few. Pretty pathetic how a $1400 unit outperforms a $6000 unit in power. Those extra 3 channels aren't worth the $4600 IMO. Anyone else agree?

Here we go again with the misconceptions of "all channels driven". I suppose no matter how much we write about how flawed that test scenario is, people will still treat it as the holly grail test for power amps.

I saw their cursory review (my into is actually longer ) and I believe their tests are flawed since I was able to hit almost 170wpc with 5CH driven at .1% distortion without holding the line voltage constant. Regardless, my measurements indicate this receiver has the most robust power supply ever incorporated into a multi channel receiver and its limits are a function of the power capability of the outlet you have it hooked too (120V/15A). BTW into 4ohms I measured a whopping 340wpc, not to mention the lowest noise floor I have ever seen in a receiver or so called high end processor to date!

Pretty pathetic how a $1400 unit outperforms a $6000 unit in power.

Click to expand...

I don't know what you criteria is for "outperforms" especially considering the AVR-5805 has over 2x the size power supply of the HK unit you mentioned and about a 10-15dB better noise floor, not to mention the most advanced bass management system we have ever seen, a great room correction system and a host of audio and video switching options not found on other products regardless of price.

Maybe not "outperforms", but equally performs based on their tests. I can't vouch for the testing equipment, but I'm guessing they don't deviate from unit to unit. Comparing the one channel test:

The 5805 is rated at 205x1 at 8 ohms, and 344x1 at 4 ohms per S&V.
The 7300 is rated at 202x1 at 8 ohms, and 343x1 at 4 ohms per S&V.

Their 344 is very similar to your 340 watt rating.

www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/DenonAVR-5805lab.pdf

www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/harmonkardonAVR7300lab.pdf

I'm not slamming the Denon 5805 for what it is. Heck, I own the 3805.

But, those figures sure make the AVR7300 look mighty attractive at its price - especially with the video processing and Faroudja DCDi engine.

Regardless; their 5CH test for the 5805 doesn't seem right based on the power supply of the 5805, and what I have measured thus far.

Also note the SNR differences:
Via Analog: HK Receiver of 83.1dB vs 101.3dB of the 5805 which is an 18.1dB difference!
Via 96/24 signals: HK of 73.6dB vs 90.5dB of Denon which is a 16.9dB difference! Again big difference.

Their SNR measurements are very significant and consistant with what I measured though I don't use A-wtd since I think its bogus. Unweighted I got about 5-6db worse, but its a more realistic test condition and definately a class leading measurement that to date no separates processor in the price class of the 5805 was able to achieve.

That being said the HK unit is still a very nice receiver, but really in a different class than the 5805 as it should be based on its asking price.

Hi All
My advice is to wait until the A/H bench tests are published with the review
Before passing judgment on the 5805 I have known the person doing the testing for a very long time and I can say without reservation that the testing will be meticulous and ACCURATE! When published you will be kicking yourself in the backside if you base your decision to go with a different receiver or Pre/Pro based on what has been reported
That’s all I wanted to say
Peace All

<<Were you honestly expecting an AVR to compete with monoblocks in sheer output? >>

Wow! I love how people on here take a post and turn it into a load of assumptions. Where did I say that I wanted it to compete w/ Monoblocks? Where did I say I was unhappy w/ how loud the receiver played? And where did I say that I was not happy w/ how the unit sounded?

If I pay $6K for a receiver and they advertise its output at 170 X 10 ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN, I have EVERY right to expect that output. REGARDLESS of what real world affect it has on sound I have a right to expect the unit to perform to spec.

It appears that the measurements may be wrong. If this is the case then great! If not, I have every right to expect better.

I find it intersting that everyone blasted me for expecting the unit to perform as advertised. Give me a good reason why I should NOT expect it to perform to spec?

Buckeyefan 1 said:

Still, there is no excuse for the overrating here.

Check this out...

www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/harmonkardonAVR7300lab.pdf

This is why, had the AVR7300 been a little more affordable, I would have went with it over the 3805. There are very few companies that don't over rate their receivers. Harman Kardon is one of those few. Pretty pathetic how a $1400 unit outperforms a $6000 unit in power. Those extra 3 channels aren't worth the $4600 IMO. Anyone else agree?

Click to expand...

I agree Harman Kardon doesn't overrate the power output of their receivers but still, the AVR3805 is more powerful than the AVR630, for roughly the same money. I hope you are happy with the 3805. It sounds good and has enough power for most applications. The 5805 is 40 lbs heavier than the AVR7300, it must have a huge power supply in it. I wonder if S&V's outlet on their test bench is the weak link.

briansmith,

denon never claimed 170 wpc, all channels driven, for the 5805.

Buckeyefan 1 said:

Still, there is no excuse for the overrating here.

Check this out...

www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/harmonkardonAVR7300lab.pdf

This is why, had the AVR7300 been a little more affordable, I would have went with it over the 3805. There are very few companies that don't over rate their receivers. Harman Kardon is one of those few. Pretty pathetic how a $1400 unit outperforms a $6000 unit in power. Those extra 3 channels aren't worth the $4600 IMO. Anyone else agree?

Click to expand...

Well, the power of that unit is nice, especially for the price. But, There is more to receivers than power

Buckeyefan 1 said:

Maybe not "outperforms", but equally performs based on their tests. I can't vouch for the testing equipment, but I'm guessing they don't deviate from unit to unit. Comparing the one channel test:

The 5805 is rated at 205x1 at 8 ohms, and 344x1 at 4 ohms per S&V.
The 7300 is rated at 202x1 at 8 ohms, and 343x1 at 4 ohms per S&V.

Their 344 is very similar to your 340 watt rating.

www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/DenonAVR-5805lab.pdf

www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/harmonkardonAVR7300lab.pdf

I'm not slamming the Denon 5805 for what it is. Heck, I own the 3805.

But, those figures sure make the AVR7300 look mighty attractive at its price - especially with the video processing and Faroudja DCDi engine.

Click to expand...

Looks like there is more to that receiver than the power. So, it would seem what your needs are as that should be it mostly