Money and politics, Are they trying to cover up the initial accident

[3db]

handling and effects of the East Palistine Ohio?

A Canadian perspective!!

Ohio derailed train chemical cloud ‘highly unlikely’ to impact Canada | Globalnews.ca

A spokesperson for Environment and Climate Change Canada said the smoke cloud, released by burning the chemicals spilled from the train, shouldn't harm Canadians.

globalnews.ca

 

[mtrycrafts]

But of course. One way to make it go away. Then be caught and end up in jail?

 

[3db]

But of course. One way to make it go away. Then be caught and end up in jail?

Accidents are more often than not, a culmination of events that come together to make it happen. It will be interesting how this rolls out with the careless handling of these chemicals before and after the spill. Burning them as greatly increased the land area of contimination. Its effects has now impacted Canada as well making this an international event.

 

[cpp]

I guess one of the big concerns which they can't seem to address, is how to actually transport chemicals around the US. A train is about as safe as one can get, unless you have some type of derailment caused by a mechanical issue.
Some history of train accidents when the train was carrying chemicals.
1991: Dunsmuir Ca. Derailment that dumped chemicals into the river.
1992: Superior Wisconsin , derailment
2002: Minot, ND . Derailment
2005: Graniteville, SC Wrong track , collision, Incorrectly aligned railroad switch.
2012 : Paulsboro, NJ. Derailment . Four chemical cars ended up in a creek.
2015: Maryville, TN. front Axel failed.
2020: Custer, WA. Derailment . crude oil spill.
2023: East Palestine Ohio: Derailment

Actually not a lot of accidents if you think about how much train freight traffic is moved throughout the US each day. of course one wreck is a ah poop for the industry. In 2019 " 2.2 million carloads of chemicals" were transported by rail. . Would chemical by truck be any safer, ( No easy answer)
Commercial Truck Accident Statistics in the United States

• In 2019, there were approximately 510,000 police-reported crashes involving large trucks.
• There were 4,479 fatal truck accidents in 2019, representing 1% of all large truck crashes.
• There were 114,000 injury truck accidents in 2019, accounting for 29% of all truck crashes.
• 82% of truck accident fatalities in 2019 were not the occupants of the large truck.
• An average of 14 people die each day in accidents with commercial trucks.
• An average of 433 people are injured every day in the U.S. in trucking accidents.
• There were 13.65 fatal truck accidents per million people in the United States in 2019, an increase of 29% over 10.6 per million people in 2010.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

From the CA article:
"When pressed for an answer, officials said that testing in the immediate area showed safe air quality levels, even during the burn..."
"The village’s drinking water system is being tested daily and is safe, he said."
Reminds me of the classic:

 

[mtrycrafts]

Accidents are more often than not, a culmination of events that come together to make it happen. It will be interesting how this rolls out with the careless handling of these chemicals before and after the spill. Burning them as greatly increased the land area of contimination. Its effects has now impacted Canada as well making this an international event.

I guess they, the company that burned it, forgot about the burn pits the military personnel were exposed to are suffering from now.

 

[Mikado463]

It will be interesting how this rolls out with the careless handling of these chemicals before and after the spill.

I'm not going to classify NS handling of this train 'careless' prior to the derailment but I will admit since the advent of PSR(precision scheduled railroading) there have been questionable train handling procedures implemented that need to looked at.

As for an example of one of the worst avoidable accidents in recent time one needs to look no further than the tragedy 10 years ago in Lac Megantic, Pq

Railway Investigation Report R13D0054 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

Runaway and main-track derailment of Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway freight train MMA-002 at mile 0.23, Sherbrooke Subdivision, Lac-Mégantic, Quebec on 06 July 2013

www.tsb.gc.ca

Regardless, given the amount of chemicals transported (as Chris pointed out) railroads are the safest means of transport. Yet even so, we must do better !

 

[3db]

One of the early factors already discovered that made this derailment far worse than it had to be is that none of these cars had individual electrical braking systems installed because of political lobbying. This is f'in textbook STUPID!!! and I simply don't care which side of the political fence these people sat on. Its not an excuse for stupidity. People need to lose their jobs over the decision to avoid implementing secondary safety protocols. The 2nd dumbest decision made was to burn these chemicals. What did they think would happen? The 3rd dumbest decision was to allow the people back after only 8 days. Safe my ass!!! Another decision made based not for the welfare of the people in Paoestine but for the welfare of the political parties. What I really find jnteresting is that the derailment happened near or on Feb 3 and it stayed quiet for almost 2 weeks. What factors contributed to the silencing of this accident? What other politics were at play?

 

[3db]

I'm not going to classify NS handling of this train 'careless' prior to the derailment but I will admit since the advent of PSR(precision scheduled railroading) there have been questionable train handling procedures implemented that need to looked at.

As for an example of one of the worst avoidable accidents in recent time one needs to look no further than the tragedy 10 years ago in Lac Megantic, Pq

Railway Investigation Report R13D0054 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

Runaway and main-track derailment of Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway freight train MMA-002 at mile 0.23, Sherbrooke Subdivision, Lac-Mégantic, Quebec on 06 July 2013

www.tsb.gc.ca

Regardless, given the amount of chemicals transported (as Chris pointed out) railroads are the safest means of transport. Yet even so, we must do better !

That was another avoidable tragedy that should have never happened.

 

[Mikado463]

One of the early factors already discovered that made this derailment far worse than it had to be is that none of these cars had individual electrical braking systems installed because of political lobbying.

There is ALOT more to it that just political lobbying. I'll give you but one response(I could be typing all day if you want more) , here goes............

The alternative braking proposal which to the best of my knowledge came about during the Obama years at which time the railroad industry was in the middle of a non-funded Gov't mandate know as PTC (positive train control). That mandate which just became completed as the pandemic reared its ugly head was projected to cost the railroads approx 5 billion dollars, when complete the price tag exceeded 15 billion. So were the railroads ready, willing or able to take on another high dollar 'upgrade' ? The proven viability for rail freight service and price tag for implementation was not to be on the table then.

One other thing to consider, I doubt if anyone on this forum knows exactly every event with respect to timeline for the derailment in E. Palestine and that includes me.

 

[3db]

There is ALOT more to it that just political lobbying. I'll give you but one response(I could be typing all day if you want more) , here goes............

The alternative braking proposal which to the best of my knowledge came about during the Obama years at which time the railroad industry was in the middle of a non-funded Gov't mandate know as PTC (positive train control). That mandate which just became completed as the pandemic reared its ugly head was projected to cost the railroads approx 5 billion dollars, when complete the price tag exceeded 15 billion. So were the railroads ready, willing or able to take on another high dollar 'upgrade' ? The proven viability for rail freight service and price tag for implementation was not to be on the table then.

One other thing to consider, I doubt if anyone on this forum knows exactly every event with respect to timeline for the derailment in E. Palestine and that includes me.

No one knows exactly every event but there is no question in my mind that if these cars were equipped with secondary brake control that the scope of this disaster would have been reduced considerably. Thats my point.

 

[mtrycrafts]

One of the early factors already discovered that made this derailment far worse than it had to be is that none of these cars had individual electrical braking systems installed because of political lobbying. ...

Thanks for pointing this out. Beyond stupid. But in line with not regulating or demanding too much from a corporation, isn't it. Let the public pay for it one way or another.

 

[Mikado463]

No one knows exactly every event but there is no question in my mind that if these cars were equipped with secondary brake control that the scope of this disaster would have been reduced considerably. Thats my point.

Ohhhh, 3db, there is so much you don't know(I'm having fun with you here)........ EVERY single car utilized in service today on railroads in North America has 'secondary brake control' !!!

It's ironic we're having this conversation for my brother was over for dinner tonight, he too a career railroader, 36 years as a locomotive engineer and we both we lamenting over our pre-dinner cocktail how incredibly ignorant MSM is with respect to 'our' industry. That combined with ignorance on social media has made this horrible situation in E Palestine even worse.

Enjoy your evening ........

 

[3db]

@ Mikado, Hopefully, the truth will come out on the mechanical details. The next issues are the burning of these chemicals and the decision to allow the people to come back after only 8 days.

Enjoy your evening....

 

[3db]

I'm not going to classify NS handling of this train 'careless' prior to the derailment but I will admit since the advent of PSR(precision scheduled railroading) there have been questionable train handling procedures implemented that need to looked at.

As for an example of one of the worst avoidable accidents in recent time one needs to look no further than the tragedy 10 years ago in Lac Megantic, Pq

Railway Investigation Report R13D0054 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

Runaway and main-track derailment of Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway freight train MMA-002 at mile 0.23, Sherbrooke Subdivision, Lac-Mégantic, Quebec on 06 July 2013

www.tsb.gc.ca

Regardless, given the amount of chemicals transported (as Chris pointed out) railroads are the safest means of transport. Yet even so, we must do better !

Money protects money. Always has, always will.

 

[Mikado463]

@ Mikado, Hopefully, the truth will come out on the mechanical details.

Agreed, but very often the NTSB will provide to the public a somewhat confusing answer. Regardless, can further reform and changes be made to insure greater safety for haz-mat transportation ? Yes and lets start with the basics of train handling as it relates to haz-mat and build on it from there

 

[cpp]

Yes and lets start with the basics of train handling as it relates to haz-mat and build on it from there

And lets add, rail maintenance and car maintenance.

 

[highfigh]

I guess one of the big concerns which they can't seem to address, is how to actually transport chemicals around the US. A train is about as safe as one can get, unless you have some type of derailment caused by a mechanical issue.
Some history of train accidents when the train was carrying chemicals.
1991: Dunsmuir Ca. Derailment that dumped chemicals into the river.
1992: Superior Wisconsin , derailment
2002: Minot, ND . Derailment
2005: Graniteville, SC Wrong track , collision, Incorrectly aligned railroad switch.
2012 : Paulsboro, NJ. Derailment . Four chemical cars ended up in a creek.
2015: Maryville, TN. front Axel failed.
2020: Custer, WA. Derailment . crude oil spill.
2023: East Palestine Ohio: Derailment

Actually not a lot of accidents if you think about how much train freight traffic is moved throughout the US each day. of course one wreck is a ah poop for the industry. In 2019 " 2.2 million carloads of chemicals" were transported by rail. . Would chemical by truck be any safer, ( No easy answer)
Commercial Truck Accident Statistics in the United States

• In 2019, there were approximately 510,000 police-reported crashes involving large trucks.
• There were 4,479 fatal truck accidents in 2019, representing 1% of all large truck crashes.
• There were 114,000 injury truck accidents in 2019, accounting for 29% of all truck crashes.
• 82% of truck accident fatalities in 2019 were not the occupants of the large truck.
• An average of 14 people die each day in accidents with commercial trucks.
• An average of 433 people are injured every day in the U.S. in trucking accidents.
• There were 13.65 fatal truck accidents per million people in the United States in 2019, an increase of 29% over 10.6 per million people in 2010.

Look at who can get a CDL- that will tell you why this is happening.

In MKE, a DPW worker who was driving a truck called a 'heavy pickup' hit into several cars and three died in the fiery crash. She had a history of siezures which, according to her supervisor, "were under control with medication".

Police reports: City truck driver involved in deadly crash had history of seizures

MKE Department of Public Works employee Denise Durrah was among three people killed in December 2022 crash

www.wisn.com

 

[Mikado463]

And lets add, rail maintenance and car maintenance.

no doubt improvements can be made in all areas. Of note after the Lac Megantic incident DOT rules that apply to tank cars have changed for the better. I'm also thinking updated insp procedures for all cars carrying haz-mat needs an immediate revising.

Rail maintenance, while not 'perfect' is actually quite good for the majority of the Class 1 territory.

 

[cpp]

no doubt improvements can be made in all areas. Of note after the Lac Megantic incident DOT rules that apply to tank cars have changed for the better. I'm also thinking updated insp procedures for all cars carrying haz-mat needs an immediate revising.

Rail maintenance, while not 'perfect' is actually quite good for the majority of the Class 1 territory.

The rail I feel is still a lot safer than a bunch of tanker trucks driving through towns or along our crowed interstates.. But money and politics has a way of making stuff go away or at least hidden if its has political implications or in this case, just a huge political blunder as it took nearly two weeks after the accident for a senior Administration official to show up.