where's the universal remote love?

[alexo]

Originally Posted by MDS

URC-MX350.

'Activities' are just macros. There are no inexpensive IR remotes that can track device states (and the Harmony doesn't either - if one of the steps of a macro isn't seen by a device, its 'state' will be wrong and you go through the help system to get the state correct, which you can do all by yourself anyway).

I beg to differ. Several of my devices don't have discrete on/off commands and the TV doesn't even have discrete commands for the input selector (it just cycles through the inputs). The remote does remember those states just fine when I switch between activities.

[ Aside: Obviously, if those states change not via the remote, it will "mis-remember" them, but that's beside the point. ]

Now, I don't know what is your definition of "just macros" but on the Harmony, activities are a simplified combination of: (sequences of commands) + (state memory with conditional execution) + (button remapping).

[adk highlander]

To accurately track device state it should be done by using a video or voltage sensor. What harmony does is not device state but more like using a variable that is set to true when an activity is started. Then as you switch activities the remote cycles through a set of variables and does not send power commands to ones that have been set to true.

I use a MSC-400 which is connected to all of my equipment and I use video sensors to track states of my satellite boxes so if they are used in multiple zones they are not accidentally powered off.

My new favorite inexpensive remote is the MX-780 from universal remote control. The retail is $299 but it can be had for around $250 from most dealers. The only trick is to find a dealer that will give you the software with your purchase. URC allows dealers to distribute the software but will not give it directly to the end user.

The software is not wizard based so don't expect the spoon feeding that you get from a harmony remote. The advantages to this software is you have control over building complex macros and can map any button to any piece of gear you want. It also supports variables so you can use those as a pseudo way to track the state of your TOAD devices.

The MX-780 is both IR and RF so you can add one of their RF base stations to control the gear out of site.

[mloew1]

harmony one, here also. There might be better units out there but this remote does every thing I have asked it to do. I also do not have to have someone come to my house and program it for me. Not sure if the crestron requires that?

[alexo]

Hi, adk highlander.

Originally Posted by adk highlander

To accurately track device state it should be done by using a video or voltage sensor. What harmony does is not device state but more like using a variable that is set to true when an activity is started. Then as you switch activities the remote cycles through a set of variables and does not send power commands to ones that have been set to true.

Yes, of course. What I meant was the state of the devices as the remote remembers them -- meaning, internal variables. Using sensors is, in my opinion, way into the territory of diminishing returns (especially since I have no idea how such sensors can detect other state such as active input).

Originally Posted by adk highlander

My new favorite inexpensive remote is the MX-780 from universal remote control. The retail is $299 but it can be had for around $250 from most dealers. The only trick is to find a dealer that will give you the software with your purchase. URC allows dealers to distribute the software but will not give it directly to the end user.

It looks very similar to the "consumer line" R40. Can you tell me what are the differences between them?

Originally Posted by adk highlander

The software is not wizard based so don't expect the spoon feeding that you get from a harmony remote.

I've been writing software for a living for quite a while. I think I'll manage

[96cobra10101]

Originally Posted by GoFastr

+1

I like my 1100 a lot, my wife likes it even better (especially when she remembers to actually point it at the equipment!)

I need to get the RF kit for mine then it will be totally foolproof.

RF kit????

[adk highlander]

Originally Posted by alexo

Yes, of course. What I meant was the state of the devices as the remote remembers them -- meaning, internal variables. Using sensors is, in my opinion, way into the territory of diminishing returns (especially since I have no idea how such sensors can detect other state such as active input).

Depending on the complexity of the system this may be true. Sensors are not used to detect inputs as there are discrete codes for inputs. As I said I use them just to check power state and then issue commands once I know the state. All of my gear has discrete power commands but I still find it very useful and cleaner from a programming standpoint to use them.

If you are only controlling one room I do agree this is a bit overkill but I am controlling 5 zones so it makes a bit more sense.

Originally Posted by alexo

It looks very similar to the "consumer line" R40. Can you tell me what are the differences between them?

The R40 does look very similar but the programming is completely different. I do not have any experience with the new consumer line. It does not use a PC at all for programming so it would have some limitations similar to the harmony as to how much control you will have over your macro's and may not be able to remember state variables.

The CCP (complete control program) software is what will really give you the programming control you will want. It will also allow you to program all of your remotes in one place as your system grows or if you add a base station.

Originally Posted by alexo

I've been writing software for a living for quite a while. I think I'll manage

It is not difficult to use but will take some time to become proficient. Also, there are some help guides that are included to help you on your way. The biggest challenge will be finding a dealer that will share the software.

[lsiberian]

My Harmony was only like 30 bucks and takes very little time to setup. It even has an xbox control system.

[MDS]

Originally Posted by alexo

I've been writing software for a living for quite a while. I think I'll manage

Then you can probably infer that the Harmony's state tracking is nothing more than a bit mask - set the bit to 1 when it sends a power command to a device and set it to 0 the next time a power command is sent to that device. If someone walks in front of the remote when you execute an activity and the TV doesn't see the power toggle command, the remote will still think the TV power is On. I didn't mean to disparage the Harmony. It's nice but lacking compared to the URC remotes, IMO, and you asked for a recommendation.

The difference between the consumer level remotes (like RF30) and the complete control series (like the MX-350) are subtle features. For example, the MX-350 can be set to send IR, RF, or IR+RF individually to each device whereas the RF30 always sends both. The MX-350 has assignable emitters, the RF30 does not.

Note that my MX-350 is set up in a combination of activities and device mode. System On is an activity that turns on the TV, cable box, and receiver and selects the cable box input on the receiver. Now the remote is in 'cable' mode and controls the cable box, but (and you can't really do the same thing with the Harmony) I also have non-cable functions on both the hard buttons and LCD screen while in cable mode. The URC remotes are rather flexible in that you can put any function from any device on any button in any mode. So you can set it up the old way in 'device' mode or you can set it up purely in 'activity' mode or any combination of the two.

[adk highlander]

Hi MDS I agree with everything you have said except I don't believe the MX-350 is not part of the complete control series and does not work with CCP.

The remotes that work with CCP are:

MX-780
MX-880/i
MX-880Z
MX-900
KP-900
MX-980/i
MX-1200
KP-4000
MX-5000
MX-6000

Base Stations:

MRF-260
MRZ-260
MRF-350
MRX-1
MSC-400

[MDS]

Originally Posted by adk highlander

Hi MDS I agree with everything you have said except I don't believe the MX-350 is not part of the complete control series and does not work with CCP.

Yeah, the MX-350 is not programmed via software, it is done on the remote itself. I thought it was marketed as 'complete control series' or 'total control series' or something like that (350, 450, 650 models) but I've had it for a few years now.

If CCP means the remotes that require the software to program it, then you're right it is not part of that series. It does work with the MRF-260 that is part of your list though, so who knows?