Denon DVD-2910 Player Review!

[Clint DeBoer]

<P><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-2910Review1.php"><IMG style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 94px" alt=[DenonDVD2910] hspace=10 src="http://www.audioholics.com/news/thumbs/DenonDVD2910_th.jpg" align=left border=0></A>Denon surprised many of us hard-core videophiles at this year's CES with their top of the line DVD-5910 DVD player. Its little cousin, the <A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-2910Review1.php">DVD-2910</A>,&nbsp;is the mid-priced product in their Universal DVD line up for 2005 and, at an MSRP of $739 presents a very compelling price point for a well-performing universal DVD-A/V/SACD player. Denon has proven they can consistently design and build high-quality DVD players that meet the performance level demanded by the home theater enthusiast. Will the Denon DVD-2910 prove to be another great player? <A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-2910Review1.php">Read on</A> to find out...</FONT></P>
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[MBauer]

I have been waiting for another review. I have heard nothing but good about this unit, Perfect Vision really raves about it, if you read between their lines, they liked it better than the 3910

[RLMe36]

Clint,

Glad to hear that the 2910 faired well in your testing. It makes me really look forward to receiving my unit in a week or two hopefully. As an aside to those considering this player, Ecost has the black and silver version at a nice discount, granted its b-stock units, but still carries a Denon warranty.

Thanks

rlm

[krabapple]

A couple of questions and a comment about the review:

1) Do speaker delay settings apply to SACD and DVD-A sources? Is there any reason given by Denon why the slopes are different for SACD vs DVD-A crossovers?

2) If you're going to go to the trouble of setting up an audio A/B, which I applaud in principle, it defeats the purpose to use an SPL meter to check levels (level matching should be to within 0.1-0.2 dB, which an SPL meter isn't going to resolve) and to do the comparison 'sighted'.

[surveyor]

Clint, I enjoyed the 2910 review.
I own the 2910, and how about this?
I use SonicWave Impact Acoustics interconnects.
I followed the lead on both from this site (audioholics) about two months ago.
I won't go on, but I'm happier than a pig in slop with the 2910 and cables!!

Kelly :)

[Rob Babcock]

I have another question. Is there one global bass management setting for DVD-A and SACD, or can you set the levels differently/separately for each format?

Inquiring minds want to know! :D

[Duffinator]

Since both the Denon 2910 and 3910 were both recently reviewed is there any change to get a comparison between the two? Besides having a more robust build quality is the 3910 worth the extra money? Is it's video and audio performance really any better?

Any opinions are appreciated. :)

BTW, a very well written review.

[AN2849]

Excellent review!!

I bought the this unit three weeks ago and I'm very happy with it. Still working on tweaking the audio, I'm still new at this universal player business so I'm kinda slow.

And to answer your question Rob, there's one global bass management setting for DVD-A and SACD (I think)

[RLA]

If you're going to go to the trouble of setting up an audio A/B, which I applaud in principle, it defeats the purpose to use an SPL meter to check levels (level matching should be to within 0.1-0.2 dB, which an SPL meter isn't going to resolve) and to do the comparison 'sighted'.

Hello
The Yamaha's analog output voltage was a lower that the Denon
To do a subjective listening comparison of the two DVD players’ they must be as closely level matched as possible it is human nature to perceive loudness as better. We can hear 1-2dB difference in gain but I would be surprised if anyone short of Superman could hear a 0.5dB difference and I can assure you that all 5 of my SPL meters can be accurate to 0.5dB ;) One other fact to remember is it is highly unlikely that anyone is going to have both DVD players in their system at one time

[shokhead]

It seems for the money,the C750 is a better value then the 2910

[RLA]

Hi
the 750 is an excellent player at its price point even with it's small quirks
However it is no match for the Denon for video perfromance,tweakabilty,
user interface and build quality please keep in mind the reviews are based on
MSRP price point's both the denon and the Yamaha are class leading products at the time of the reviews

[mitebbots]

I'm curious what firmware the test unit had. Where can I get current firmware for my 2910 running v4? Mine was bought at a non-authorized dealer so not available on Denon's site.

[shokhead]

2910 should be better video and all but $300-$350 better then the C750,i'm not sure which is a value,seems maybe the Yamaha.

[krabapple]

If you're going to go to the trouble of setting up an audio A/B, which I applaud in principle, it defeats the purpose to use an SPL meter to check levels (level matching should be to within 0.1-0.2 dB, which an SPL meter isn't going to resolve) and to do the comparison 'sighted'.

Hello
The Yamaha's analog output voltage was a lower that the Denon
To do a subjective listening comparison of the two DVD players’ they must be as closely level matched as possible it is human nature to perceive loudness as better. We can hear 1-2dB difference in gain but I would be surprised if anyone short of Superman could hear a 0.5dB difference

You might be surprised , but nevertheless the psychoacoustic standard (adoped by the AES too, IIRC) is more like 0.2-0.1 dB. Why is that? Also, unless the head unit had level presets, I presume you had to adjust the receiver/amp volume , and check the levels, every time you switched between the players. This would be a rather large impediment to audible memory.


and I can assure you that all 5 of my SPL meters can be accurate to 0.5dB ;) One other fact to remember is it is highly unlikely that anyone is going to have both DVD players in their system at one time

Indeed, which is why I'd say you had a golden opportunity to do the comparison properly...and let it pass. In addition to the questionable level matching, there's the huge issue of the comparison being sighted . Audioholics is in other respects quite militantly pro-science (e.g. cables) , so it's a pity they don't require consistency in this.

[WmAx]

You might be surprised , but nevertheless the psychoacoustic standard (adoped by the AES too, IIRC) is more like 0.2-0.1 dB.

Krabapple is correct.

Excerpt from conclusion: Just noticeable differences for changes in level were examined under a few conditions. The results indicate that when comparing different program material, subjects can detect level differences of about 1.24 dB. When comparing different versions of the same program material, differences of about 0.5 dB could be detected on average. Some listeners demonstrated the ability to detect much smaller differences. For white noise, the just noticeable difference in level was found to be 0.2 dB on average.

-Chris

[briansmith]

The review mentioned that you had problems setting the black level when using the 7.5 IRE setting.

I was wondering what test (specifically) I should use to make sure I am not crushing blacks or whites. I would assume I need some type of black to white ramp pattern.

I have both AVIA and DVE. Which pattern would you suggest I use and what should I look for?

Any help would be appreciated!

-Brian

[RLA]

You may be able to hear an audible difference of 02.dB through a set of headphones but at listening levels and seated listening position I would wager that
No one this side of superman can hear a difference of 0.2 dB if you can
Then get them insured After 18 years as a custom installer commercial and
Residential I can assure you my ears are not that sensitive :)

I don’t understand what is so difficult to comprehend about level matching
For listening evaluation both units were connected to a passive A/B analog switcher connected to the same input on the receiver The Denon had a +2dB
Gain out of its analog outputs I simply made note of this and added +2db
When listening to the Yamaha. I went over this in the review :rolleyes:

[shokhead]

You may be able to hear an audible difference of 02.dB through a set of headphones but at listening levels and seated listening position I would wager that
No one this side of superman can hear a difference of 0.2 dB if you can
Then get them insured After 18 years as a custom installer commercial and
Residential I can assure you my ears are not that sensitive :)

I don’t understand what is so difficult to comprehend about level matching
For listening evaluation both units were connected to a passive A/B analog switcher connected to the same input on the receiver The Denon had a +2dB
Gain out of its analog outputs I simply made note of this and added +2db
When listening to the Yamaha. I went over this in the review :rolleyes:

We're not a Resident Expert so cut us some slack. :p

[gene]

You might be surprised , but nevertheless the psychoacoustic standard (adoped by the AES too, IIRC) is more like 0.2-0.1 dB.

This is valid under 4 conditions:
1) Anechoic environment
2) Prime Ears
3) On headphone
4) At certain frequencies and SPL levels

Throw loudspeakers into a real room with real people and this changes dramatically. We will have a very detailed article addressing this topic by next week that will discuss this very topic with cited references.

[shokhead]

Cool,that should be interesting.

[WmAx]

This is valid under 4 conditions:
1) Anechoic environment
2) Prime Ears
3) On headphone
4) At certain frequencies and SPL levels

Throw loudspeakers into a real room with real people and this changes dramatically. We will have a very detailed article addressing this topic by next week that will discuss this very topic with cited references.

Well, I suppose one has to define 'real room'.

The pereptual test to which I referred[1] in the past post was based on an ITU-R BS.1116 environment(not an anechoic environment or headphones), and using a speaker placed 1.5meters in front of test subjects. The test consisted of music, speech and test signal(white noise). The 0.2dB sensativity level was only accomplished with white noise under these conditions. Music and speech had a significantly higher detection threshold(>0.5-0.6dB). Since the lowest detectable rate seems to be 0.2dB in the best case scenarios, it seems logical to deduct that a 0.1dB level matching is required to ensure elimination of this factor in perceptual comparisons.

-Chris

Footnotes
[1]
The Subjective Loudness of Typical Program Material
Gilbert A. Soulodre, Michel C. Lavoie, and Scott G. Norcross
AES Preprint No. 5892

[HPK]

Thanks very much for the review. I had a question regarding the multi-channel output of the player. It seems that DVD-A and SACD can have 6 full range channels. The Denon 2910 player seems to have 5.1 outputs. I don't believe I saw in the review any mention of how 6 channels are converted to 5.1. My apologies if I am missing something. My basic question is, how is the 6th channel distributed amongst the other 5 in this player?

HPK

[krabapple]

You may be able to hear an audible difference of 02.dB through a set of headphones but at listening levels and seated listening position I would wager that
No one this side of superman can hear a difference of 0.2 dB if you can
Then get them insured After 18 years as a custom installer commercial and
Residential I can assure you my ears are not that sensitive :)

I don’t understand what is so difficult to comprehend about level matching
For listening evaluation both units were connected to a passive A/B analog switcher connected to the same input on the receiver The Denon had a +2dB
Gain out of its analog outputs I simply made note of this and added +2db
When listening to the Yamaha. I went over this in the review :rolleyes:


The issue here is not yet whether you can hear a 0.2 difference -- it's whether matching to within *0.5* dB difference was adequate to ensure no level difference bias effects. Science says no, 0.5 dB level matching isn't likely to be adequate for careful comparison. I don't see what's so difficult to comprehend about that. ;>

I look forward to the Audioholics article.

As for the rest, all you have to do is tell me that the receiver volume control was displayed in dB. ;> Otherwise I'm imaging you having to check level matching with an SPL after every switch, and it's not a happy thought.

And too, there's still the 800 pound gorilla in the room : the fact that the comparison wasn't done blind.

[shokhead]

Thanks very much for the review. I had a question regarding the multi-channel output of the player. It seems that DVD-A and SACD can have 6 full range channels. The Denon 2910 player seems to have 5.1 outputs. I don't believe I saw in the review any mention of how 6 channels are converted to 5.1. My apologies if I am missing something. My basic question is, how is the 6th channel distributed amongst the other 5 in this player?

HPK

Some still say 5.1 for the 6 analogs. Its has dig out for dvd's and cd's and 6 analogs for multi-channel audio. 1 analog for each speaker inc the sub.

[RLA]

The issue here is not yet whether you can hear a 0.2 difference -- it's whether matching to within *0.5* dB difference was adequate to ensure no level difference bias effects. Science says no, 0.5 dB level matching isn't likely to be adequate for careful comparison. I don't see what's so difficult to comprehend about that. ;>


This is a cut and paste from the review. I dont recall mentioning that the review was scientific.Please use the review as a guidline only I think for the most part the folks can get a general idea of how I felt about the 2910 ;)


Testing and evaluating a DVD player's performance with test discs and various display devices is somewhat subjective to the reviewer's interpretations of the test results and are not absolutely scientific. Thus, this review should be used as a guideline only. .

[RLA]

Some still say 5.1 for the 6 analogs. Its has dig out for dvd's and cd's and 6 analogs for multi-channel audio. 1 analog for each speaker inc the sub.

It also has L/R Analog mixed in addition to the direct 6 channel multi-out

[Duffinator]

Since both the Denon 2910 and 3910 were both recently reviewed is there any change to get a comparison between the two? Besides having a more robust build quality is the 3910 worth the extra money? Is it's video and audio performance really any better?

Any opinions are appreciated. :) Any chance to get an answer to my question?

Thanks

[Johnny Canuck]

I am with Duffinator!! I want to know the answer too!!

[bumblebee]

Thanks very much for the review. I had a question regarding the multi-channel output of the player. It seems that DVD-A and SACD can have 6 full range channels. The Denon 2910 player seems to have 5.1 outputs. I don't believe I saw in the review any mention of how 6 channels are converted to 5.1. My apologies if I am missing something. My basic question is, how is the 6th channel distributed amongst the other 5 in this player?

HPK

5.1 is 6 channels. the .1 is the LFE from the 5 original channels.

[RLA]

Any chance to get an answer to my question?

Now look what you have started Instigator :D
Clint is back East with the 3910 and I am on the West Coast with the 2910
The Hilton in New Orleans wiould be a nice place to meet,Donations? anyone :D

[Duffinator]

Now look what you have started Instigator :D
Clint is back East with the 3910 and I am on the West Coast with the 2910
The Hilton in New Orleans wiould be a nice place to meet,Donations? anyone :DCome on, feed us a couple of crumbs here. ;)

[bumblebee]

Any chance to get an answer to my question?

Thanks

both seem good :) if i had the money id go for the 3910. but the 2910 seems to be at par for less :)

[RLA]

Ok Ok
One slice of bread is all you get :p
My opinion : Lets say hypothetically that you have the cash to spring for a 3910 and have a Mid-Fi H/T audio setup and dont need the full bass management capabilitys of the 3910.
A very good alternative may be to look at the 2910 and purchace a start up room acoustics package with the money you saved or an addtional subwoofer or?
Duff you dont get any water with the bread either :D

[Duffinator]

Duff you dont get any water with the bread either :DWhat no beer?

Thanks for your opinion. But you didn't mention which sub to go with my new 2910. ;)

[Duffinator]

Did you try watching any burned DVD's? I do a lot of home video and make backup copies using DVD+R and some players are pickier than others using burned media.

Thanks.

[Rotarhead69]

What no beer?

Thanks for your opinion. But you didn't mention which sub to go with my new 2910. ;)

i can answer that! Get what I have a M&K - since I got my Denon 2805 and 2910 the bass is absolutely incredible! INCREDIBLE!!!!

[HPK]

5.1 is 6 channels. the .1 is the LFE from the 5 original channels.

Well, I am still confused about this issue. Here's an excerpt from the article titled "DVD-Audio vs. SACD vs. CD":

"The bulk of present releases of SACD and DVD-A require six full frequency loudspeakers. (Derived from the DVD-A specifications) The individual channels are named, right front, left front, center, overhead, right rear, and left rear. When this type of system is set up correctly and we play back good recordings, the result is stunning to say the least. Not all of us, however, have the space and the money to do this. Many of us already have 5.1 systems that we use for home theater, and attempting to convert six full frequency channels to 5.1 is not without considerable problems as Gene DellaSala has outlined in earlier articles on this web site. .....
....We will also need all of the bass information directed to the subwoofer. Then there's that pesky overhead channel. Do we mix that into the center channel? Or do we mix it into the right and left front channels? Having consumers attempt to adjust for all this is at best impractical and realistically improbable."

Ok, so my question is, what does the Denon DVD-2910 do to the so-called "overhead channel"? Essentially, if the 6th channel is to the subwoofer, you only have five full-range channels. DVD-audio often seems encoded for six full-range channels. So, my guess is the 2910 is playing the five full range through the front L/R, surround L/R and center with the bass from any small speakers directed to the subwoofer. In addition, it must be distributing the upper frequencies from the 6th full range channel somehow among the other five and the bass possibly to the sub-woofer. For example, it could be sending the 6th overhead channel through the surround L/R speakers. Does anyone know how the 2910 solve the distribution of this 6th "full-range" channel?

[gene]

Ok, so my question is, what does the Denon DVD-2910 do to the so-called "overhead channel"? Essentially, if the 6th channel is to the subwoofer, you only have five full-range channels.


Much of it depends on the recording, not the player. Most of the titles coming out now are compatible with a 5.1 configuration. Some of the earlier DVD-A discs such as Toy Matinee werent and if you didn't have bass management on the player or in the receiver, the subs were sent full range signal and you could hear instruments and singing coming out. Really weird. In that case, I default to the DTS track which has proper bass management and channel allocation for a 5.1 configuration.

[gene]

Since the lowest detectable rate seems to be 0.2dB in the best case scenarios, it seems logical to deduct that a 0.1dB level matching is required to ensure elimination of this factor in perceptual comparisons.

Haha, good luck finding a consumer product with potentiometers with greater precision than 0.5dB not to mention channel to channel tracking of that level of accuracy. Also, make sure you don't move your head more than a centimeter, blink, or sneeze when flipping between sources or you will be off far more than 1/10th of a dB :)

[HPK]

Some of the earlier DVD-A discs such as Toy Matinee werent and if you didn't have bass management on the player or in the receiver, the subs were sent full range signal and you could hear instruments and singing coming out. Really weird. In that case, I default to the DTS track which has proper bass management and channel allocation for a 5.1 configuration.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize that the newer titles are doing better at matching the popular 5.1 configuration. I suppose if I played Toy Matinee in DVD-A mode on the 2910, I may lose a lot of the information on the 6th channel since it would be rolled off due to the base management of the player. It would make sense then to use the DTS track since you are getting the sound that was intended in the recording.

[WmAx]

Haha, good luck finding a consumer product with potentiometers with greater precision than 0.5dB not to mention channel to channel tracking of that level of accuracy.

I suppose this is dependant on the particular product(s) in question. But I have examples (non specialized) ALPS 9K series and Panasonic EV-J series potentiometers(popular in professional and mid end consumer equipment) that meet those requirements through out most of their operating ranges. It is not a problem to use such devices as voltage dividers(one on each channel discretely) between a source and ampllifier input to bring the signals within a 0.1dB range for use in product comparisons if the gain control on the amplifier/reciever lacks such resolution.

Also, make sure you don't move your head more than a centimeter, blink, or sneeze when flipping between sources or you will be off far more than 1/10th of a dB :)

The test to which I referred was performed using a room and a speaker. No mention of clamping subject heads down to keep head movement under a 1 centimeter range was made in the report.

-Chris

[MarieonCape]

My question is the opposite of the 3910/2910 question. Is it worth it to upgrade to the 2910 from a 2200 or do I need to look to higher models (higher price tag) to make a real difference? For example, my 3805 has Denon Link but the 2910 does not. The $1500 3910 does.

I have a DVD-2200, which I admit I bought because of the price point for a universal player. It seemed to be great value compared to the more expensive Denon players at the time . It is in a system with an AVR-3805 (first one out of my store and one of the very first to own on in this forum).

It seems that the 2910 is dimensionally, and layout-wise, very similiar to the 2200, but has a mix of components from the 5900/5910, 3910, 2900, & 2200 -at a lower price than the old 2900. The 2200 and 2900 also used the Silicon Image Sil504 PureProgressive circuit while the 2910 uses the Faroudja DCDCi FLi2310 circuit as did the 5900. Matter of fact the 2200/2900 seems to be the only players, both more and less expensive, that didn't use a Faroudja design.

Thanks for any thoughts...

Noted tid bits:

The spec sheet for the 2910 has exactly the same dimensions and weight as those shown on the 2200 spec sheet - cut & past error?

The weight for the 2910 is shown as 4.7 kg / 10.36 lbs. on the its spec sheet, as 12.1 lbs in the Denon product comparison chart, and it is listed as 5.5 Kg /18 lbs, 12 oz. in the owner's manual. That last .5 Kg difference between the 2200 and 2910 must be really heavy to account for over an 8 lb. difference between the two! :rolleyes:

The 2910 is listed at $679 on the Denon comparative spec chart and $739 on the Denon products page. Was there a price increase (value of dollar) or just a mismatch.

[surveyor]

I own the 2910 and it weighs 10.36lbs.
I could not speak to the upgrade question, as I've not been fortunate to have owned the 2200? :)
My question is the opposite of the 3910/2910 question. Is it worth it to upgrade to the 2910 from a 2200 or do I need to look to higher models (higher price tag) to make a real difference? For example, my 3805 has Denon Link but the 2910 does not. The $1500 3910 does.

I have a DVD-2200, which I admit I bought because of the price point for a universal player. It seemed to be great value compared to the more expensive Denon players at the time . It is in a system with an AVR-3805 (first one out of my store and one of the very first to own on in this forum).

It seems that the 2910 is dimensionally, and layout-wise, very similiar to the 2200, but has a mix of components from the 5900/5910, 3910, 2900, & 2200 -at a lower price than the old 2900. The 2200 and 2900 also used the Silicon Image Sil504 PureProgressive circuit while the 2910 uses the Faroudja DCDCi FLi2310 circuit as did the 5900. Matter of fact the 2200/2900 seems to be the only players, both more and less expensive, that didn't use a Faroudja design.

Thanks for any thoughts...

Noted tid bits:

The spec sheet for the 2910 has exactly the same dimensions and weight as those shown on the 2200 spec sheet - cut & past error?

The weight for the 2910 is shown as 4.7 kg / 10.36 lbs. on the its spec sheet, as 12.1 lbs in the Denon product comparison chart, and it is listed as 5.5 Kg /18 lbs, 12 oz. in the owner's manual. That last .5 Kg difference between the 2200 and 2910 must be really heavy to account for over an 8 lb. difference between the two! :rolleyes:

The 2910 is listed at $679 on the Denon comparative spec chart and $739 on the Denon products page. Was there a price increase (value of dollar) or just a mismatch.

[selfar]

I have the 3805 and got the 3910 2 weeks ago. For audio, the 3910 sounds great for all available modes and formats, specially, the SACD. I used to have Sony NS905 DVD and SACD player. When i heard the 3910, i said to myself that Sony invented the SACD and Denon made us really enjoyed it. For the DVD audio, this was my first time to try it. It sounds great. Concerning the Dlink, i tried it with every format, it sounded excellant.

Conerning the Video and compared to what i used to have it, it really has an excellant performance. However, in case you go for the 3910, you should know exactly what type of display you have in order to take full advantage of the 3910 capabilities. My understanding of the 3910 is that the 480p/576p,720p,1080i modes are only available using HDMI/DVI interface. The 480i/p and 576i/p are the only options available via component, unfortunately.

[Clint DeBoer]

Thanks guys for the weight correction - I'll fix this on Monday. That kind of stuff we usually take from the spec sheet or manual and it didnt click that it was too high until people started mentioning it. We might need to make sure we start personally weighing stuff lest we get caught up in a "weight controversy"! :)

[gene]

For all of you folks trying to level match within 0.1dB, you may first wish to peruse our article on: The Sensitivity of the Human Ear to Amplitude Variation (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/roomacoustics/HumanHearingAmplitude.php).

[WmAx]

For all of you folks trying to level match within 0.1dB, you may first wish to peruse our article on: The Sensitivity of the Human Ear to Amplitude Variation (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/roomacoustics/HumanHearingAmplitude.php).

Even according to the references in that article, a difference as small as 0.25dB is detectable under certain conditions. For an important controlled perceptual test, I maintane it would be *sloppy* to allow more than a 0.1dB variation. You run the real risk of invalidating such test results if you use a 0.5dB(a figure you seem to imply in this thread is acceptable) tolerance of level matching. If you wish, I will send you a copy of the 2003 AES paper that studies music(against same selection), music(different selections) and white noise to evaluate minimum dB change detection thresholds a several subjects, in a room, with a speaker as the sound source.

-Chris

[krabapple]

Haha, good luck finding a consumer product with potentiometers with greater precision than 0.5dB not to mention channel to channel tracking of that level of accuracy. Also, make sure you don't move your head more than a centimeter, blink, or sneeze when flipping between sources or you will be off far more than 1/10th of a dB :)


Indeed. All the more reason to take casual ('sloppy' might be construed as impolite) comparisons with a big hunk of salt. And of course the fact that the comparison was done 'sighted' pretty much makes the level-matching issue secondary. If the comparisons aren't going to be made more rigorous, maybe the disclaimer should be made stronger? Like "NB: the sonic differences reported in this review could be completely imaginary'?

[Clint DeBoer]

That sounds reasonable and practical... if you want us to do about 2-3 reviews per year. As much as we'd like to entertain thoughts of perfectly sterile environments for each review and double blind tests for each listening session, the reality is that it's simply not practical - or realistic.

We've always been about real-world and that's where we intend to stay. People don't listen using double blind tests and they certainly don't listen in quasi-anechoic chambers. In the real world there is no such thing as greater than 0.5dB level matching on most equipment - so clamoring for it doesn't matter.

We love the feedback, but hopefully you can realize that there is a deliberate and practical side to what we do as well as how we do it.

[krabapple]

That sounds reasonable and practical... if you want us to do about 2-3 reviews per year. As much as we'd like to entertain thoughts of perfectly sterile environments for each review and double blind tests for each listening session, the reality is that it's simply not practical - or realistic.

We've always been about real-world and that's where we intend to stay. People don't listen using double blind tests and they certainly don't listen in quasi-anechoic chambers. In the real world there is no such thing as greater than 0.5dB level matching on most equipment - so clamoring for it doesn't matter.

We love the feedback, but hopefully you can realize that there is a deliberate and practical side to what we do as well as how we do it.


Speaking of real...the goal is to describe *real* differences, isn't it? In the real world sighted comparison is a *bad* way to substantiate *real* differences -- despite being really common. Good methods only don't 'matter' if accurate results don't matter. And frankly, level matching is secondary without this basic consideration being taken care of first.

It's funny how 'real world' comes to mean 'whatever is practical or convenient '...even if it gives possibly imaginary results. I note that people don't tend to bench-test components either, yet few would argue against bench tests in reviews, on that basis.

If it's too impractical or 'unrealistic' to use methods that are actually *good* for substatiating differences, seems to me that the 'revising the disclaimer' option is the most honest way to go.

[NB: The preceding rant is not aimed only at Audioholics; it describes a failure endemic to audio journalism. :( ]

[Clint DeBoer]

Again, I think practicality is the impeding value here. It would take a team of at least three people for each review. Good ideas are good ideas, but implementation means taking into account the big picture and factiring in all of the other issues.

The other thing is that often, people tend to confuse their goals with ours. This results in a 'good' vs. 'bad' mentality - whereas I think it's simply a difference of opinion or method.

[Wyngdh]

<P><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-2910Review1.php"><IMG style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 94px" alt=[DenonDVD2910] hspace=10 src="http://www.audioholics.com/news/thumbs/DenonDVD2910_th.jpg" align=left border=0></A>Denon surprised many of us hard-core videophiles at this year's CES with their top of the line DVD-5910 DVD player. Its little cousin, the <A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-2910Review1.php">DVD-2910</A>,&nbsp;is the mid-priced product in their Universal DVD line up for 2005 and, at an MSRP of $739 presents a very compelling price point for a well-performing universal DVD-A/V/SACD player. Denon has proven they can consistently design and build high-quality DVD players that meet the performance level demanded by the home theater enthusiast. Will the Denon DVD-2910 prove to be another great player? <A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-2910Review1.php">Read on</A> to find out...</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>[<A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-2910Review1.php">Read the Review</A>]</FONT></P>

I've had this player for 9 weeks and it's back at the distributors. First I noticed the playing of randomly programmed CD tracks is faulty. Then the DVD player reset movies after 20 minutes! The latter problem was fixed at the first round of repairs. I've sent it back because the programming function is still faulty.

[Atos]

Much of it depends on the recording, not the player. Most of the titles coming out now are compatible with a 5.1 configuration. Some of the earlier DVD-A discs such as Toy Matinee werent and if you didn't have bass management on the player or in the receiver, the subs were sent full range signal and you could hear instruments and singing coming out. Really weird. In that case, I default to the DTS track which has proper bass management and channel allocation for a 5.1 configuration.
I recently got a Yamaha RX-V2500 and I am thinking in matching it with Denon 2910. In regards to multi-channel sources, can we output the “six channels” via the optical digital output of the 2910? Is it possible or copyright protection prevents this? I’d hate to buy six interconnect cables when I can use only one optical cable.
I do not completely understand the need for a “multi-source” setting in the Yamaha and the analog outputs of the Denon when both have digital capabilities. What are the pros and cons of using one versus the other?

[shokhead]

Dig for DVD's and cd's and 6 analogs for multi-channel audio.

[krportmann]

I'm curious what firmware the test unit had. Where can I get current firmware for my 2910 running v4? Mine was bought at a non-authorized dealer so not available on Denon's site.
did you get an answer to this problem?\
i need one,please
thanks

[ronrags]

I too am interested in upgrading to the 2910 for the sole purpose to upconvert to 720p or 1080i on my sony 55wf655 projection lcd tv.

Will the 2910 produce better picture quality with DVI than the 2200 with component? I ordered the OPPO DVD player on-line for the same comparison and found the Denon produced a better picture.

Can anyone help?

My question is the opposite of the 3910/2910 question. Is it worth it to upgrade to the 2910 from a 2200 or do I need to look to higher models (higher price tag) to make a real difference? For example, my 3805 has Denon Link but the 2910 does not. The $1500 3910 does.

I have a DVD-2200, which I admit I bought because of the price point for a universal player. It seemed to be great value compared to the more expensive Denon players at the time . It is in a system with an AVR-3805 (first one out of my store and one of the very first to own on in this forum).

It seems that the 2910 is dimensionally, and layout-wise, very similiar to the 2200, but has a mix of components from the 5900/5910, 3910, 2900, & 2200 -at a lower price than the old 2900. The 2200 and 2900 also used the Silicon Image Sil504 PureProgressive circuit while the 2910 uses the Faroudja DCDCi FLi2310 circuit as did the 5900. Matter of fact the 2200/2900 seems to be the only players, both more and less expensive, that didn't use a Faroudja design.

Thanks for any thoughts...

Noted tid bits:

The spec sheet for the 2910 has exactly the same dimensions and weight as those shown on the 2200 spec sheet - cut & past error?

The weight for the 2910 is shown as 4.7 kg / 10.36 lbs. on the its spec sheet, as 12.1 lbs in the Denon product comparison chart, and it is listed as 5.5 Kg /18 lbs, 12 oz. in the owner's manual. That last .5 Kg difference between the 2200 and 2910 must be really heavy to account for over an 8 lb. difference between the two! :rolleyes:

The 2910 is listed at $679 on the Denon comparative spec chart and $739 on the Denon products page. Was there a price increase (value of dollar) or just a mismatch.

[ssabripo]

Any chance to get an answer to my question?

Thanks


hi...long time viewer, first time poster ;)

anyways, long story short, I owned the 2910 and upgraded to the 3910....Very Big improvement to say the least!!

I would say you gain about a 20% improvement in video, and a 30-40% improvement in audio....is this worth double the price? I dont know, only you can answer that, but to me, it was a resounding yes!

better details in the picture, less noise, much less MB, and overall, just better filtering in the image....

I posted a review a while back on avsforum....do a search under my name..this is the thread I posted when I was not quite satisfied with the 2910:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=477406&highlight=ssabripo

here is what I found when I did a shootout between the 3910 and 59avi when I was shopping for an upgrade:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4988052#post4988052

finally, here are my thoughts once I upgraded to the 3910 (as compared to the 2910):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=489947&highlight=ssabripo

[Grunt]

I read the posts on the 2910 v. 3910 and am leaning toward buying the 3910 to hook-up to my 45" Sharp Aquos. Do you think that's a good fit?

What else do you recommend?

Do I need a receiver? Which one do you recommend to go along with the 3910?

What about speakers? I'm in a condo and don't have a lot of room. I thought Bose was good until I read some of the other posts. The size of their jewel speakers is perfect. Are there some good ones that size out there? If not, what are the smallest and best speakers you would recommend?

Will I need an amp if I get certain speakers?

Sorry for all the basic questions, but I really am a rookie on all this stuff.

Bottom line, I have this great big tv that I'd like to maximize with great DVDs and great sound. I'd like to keep the total price around $3k to $3,500.

[BlueScorpion]

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone can offer some advise as to how I can accurately set up my DENON DV-2910 which is linked to a HITACHI 42PD7800TA?

Particularly colour managment...

(I am using HDMI connection)

Is there any software available for this? Or any websites that can offer more info. about this sort of thing?


...Fantastic review of the DV-2910 by the way..thanks Clint DeBoer

Cheers! :)

[brian32672]

You could try this...
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DatacolorSpyderTVreview.php

EDIT:: Also, have you used Avia or DVE?

[WelshDog]

For example, my 3805 has Denon Link but the 2910 does not. The $1500 3910 does.



This is my beef with the 2910, no Denon Link. I also have a 3805 and honestly the 3910 is too pricey for what you get. I do hope that Denon will add Dlink on future 2900 series players. Seems like it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

[eirepaul]

This is my beef with the 2910, no Denon Link. I also have a 3805 and honestly the 3910 is too pricey for what you get. I do hope that Denon will add Dlink on future 2900 series players. Seems like it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I agree - I would have been all over the 2910 if it had the DLink, and the 3910 is too much money for me as well. I just don't understand Denon's logic in not including the Dlink at the 2910's price point. We can only hope for the next time I guess.

Right now I'm using analog connections for multi-channel surround, and it sounds great. Can anybody give some insight into experience they have had comparing analog vs digital connections for m/c music? Is it truly that big of an advantage to stay in the digital domain for m/c music? Technically it seems to make sense, but does it really translate into a practical improvement in sound resolution? Thanks.