AV123 x-statik Tower Loudspeaker

[admin]

The new x-statik open baffle tower starting at $699/pr was designed from the ground up by AV123's Mark Schifter and renowned speaker designer Danny Richie. The x-statik will launch with a companion open baffle center speaker called x-voce as well as On-Wall surrounds and an omni-directional floor standing speaker. The x-statik features a 2" front baffle and a 1” braced, high quality MDF cabinet designed to minimize enclosure resonances. They are then wrapped in a real wood veneer or beautifully finished in a silky-smooth satin black.

http://av123.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/066938bb5f115ab5b2f0b6f6b833b095.jpg

Discuss "AV123 x-statik Tower Loudspeaker" here. Read the article (http://www.audioholics.com/news/press-releases/av123-x-statik-tower-loudspeaker).

[gus6464]

Why does a speaker with that many drivers and decent size cabinet only have the following frequency response:

Frequency Response: 65 Hz to 20 KHz (± 3 dB)

[mike c]

probably because its sealed

[j_garcia]

These are an evolution of Danny's previous open baffle speakers, which I have heard are some amazing speakers indeed. My GRs are Danny's design as well :)

[birdonthebeach]

I will be interested in hearing these...

[Highbar]

Number of drivers has nothing to do with the frequency response. Have to agree with Mike that it's more then likely the fact that it's a sealed arrangement that keeps it from going super low. 65Hz is plenty low when you add a sub to it, and wont affect a good amount of music as it is.

T

[autoboy]

I'm really interested in how these come out. I've been searching for a beautiful replacement for my Axiom setup and these definately fit the bill. The problem I have is that the center seems too big for my setup. I put the center on the TV stand in front of the TV and if I push the TV too far back it falls off the back of the stand. I imagine the open baffle will sound strange with a TV behind it and the shelf below it. Still, I'm eagerly awaiting these...

Anyone have a real picture?

[mike c]

is AH going to review these? i'd like a technical explanation on how the back waves don't mess with the front waves with a baffle that small.

[3db]

They look interesting and I'm curious to see what they sound like. I don't care that they are sealed, I would expect them to be able to play lower than 65Hz. When listening to two channel music, I want my towers to be as near full range as possible.

I'm guessing that the sweet spot is much larger for the open baffle design as opposed to a conventianal design but I wonder if its a trade-off for imaging details.

[Fancypants]

Anyone have a real picture?

That is a real picture, I have been following this speaker's development for several months now, and that is a picture that was released in the past couple of days. More pictures can be found: http://av123.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=176&category_id=21&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

I was going to link the original digital render, so you could compare, but I can't seem to find it anymore.

There are also a couple more pictures and links to AV123 threads regarding the speaker here: http://av123.wetpaint.com/page/x-statik

[jvgillow]

Nice to see some audioholics coverage on these, I hope there is a full review forthcoming. I'm planning to use x-static and x-voce in my home theater in a few months, most likely with MFW-15s handling the bass duties.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They look fantastic, and I'm sure they will sound great as long as you match them with a great subwoofer (or two:D).

[gliz]

they look fantastic! cannot wait for a review. but if I get some, I will have to change my avatar :)

[silversurfer]

probably because its sealed
Doesn't "open baffle" imply that it is not sealed?

[jvgillow]

Only the top is open. The 2 bottom woofers are in a sealed enclosure.

[Davidt1]

You guys think that looks good? Hmmm....OK.

[3db]

Doesn't "open baffle" imply that it is not sealed?

The bass drivers are sealed, Take another quick peak at the pic. :)

No comments on the imaging? Will it be more diffuse?

[silversurfer]

The bass drivers are sealed, Take another quick peak at the pic. :)

No comments on the imaging? Will it be more diffuse?

So the crossover differentiates between the top and bottom drivers?

I just read the description. I see that it is a three-way.

[bandphan]

is AH going to review these? i'd like a technical explanation on how the back waves don't mess with the front waves with a baffle that small.

placment is absolutley critical as the frequencies(lower) can be nulled or enhanced . Acheiving tonal balance takes time, and with treatments to help with standing waves, the can sound amazing. The out of step arrival is a setup, room,and surface issue.

[Sean Parque]

I posted 30 real (;)) photos on the site. If you guys have any questions and don't mind me answering here, fire away.

Thanks,

Sean
AV123 Project Manager

[3db]

I posted 30 real (;)) photos on the site. If you guys have any questions and don't mind me answering here, fire away.

Thanks,

Sean
AV123 Project Manager

Hi Sean

Just curious about the imaging and soundstage an open baffle design like that would throw. I'm guessing becuase of teh open baffle, the soundstage would be bigger than a convential box speaker but less than omnipolar design. I'm thinking too that imaging would fall between that of an omi directional design and a convential design. Am I incorrect with my assumptions?

[Sean Parque]

3dB,

The soundstage is indeed huge. This is one of those speakers when you look at it, you would swear there is no sound coming from it. The sound comes from the air. This is a lot of fun to screw with non-enthusiast friends :)

They sound effortless, detaild but not bright, very smooth and lots of mid bass kick. I would run them with a sub if you really want to have fun with the. For music, the upcoming $399 x-plosive is an excellent match. For HT, the MFW-15 is even better.

I would agree that they don't quite have the sound stage of an omni polar but it is a great in between spot. They can still focus well but disappear too.

We are shipping some this week so you will all get to read some customer reviews in the coming weeks.

Thanks,

Sean
AV123 Project Manager

Hi Sean

Just curious about the imaging and soundstage an open baffle design like that would throw. I'm guessing becuase of teh open baffle, the soundstage would be bigger than a convential box speaker but less than omnipolar design. I'm thinking too that imaging would fall between that of an omi directional design and a convential design. Am I incorrect with my assumptions?

[Joe Schmoe]

They look interesting and I'm curious to see what they sound like. I don't care that they are sealed, I would expect them to be able to play lower than 65Hz. When listening to two channel music, I want my towers to be as near full range as possible.

I'm guessing that the sweet spot is much larger for the open baffle design as opposed to a conventianal design but I wonder if its a trade-off for imaging details.

If I am going to pay $700 for a pair of floorstanders, I expect them to go a lot lower than that, especially as I will never use a sub. My tiny minimonitors go a full 10Hz lower for $220!:eek:

[Sean Parque]

Joe, no problem at all there. There are compromises of course :) While you will get more bass, you lose the utterly transparent nature of these speakers.

If bass is your drug, the x-mtm encore at $549 is -3 @ 40Hz. We also have the $299 x-ls encore that is also -3 @ 10Hz lower than x-statik.

As a minor aside... we also have the larger x-optima in development that takes all the greatness of the x-statik's and adds loads more bass.

When designing speakers, we look at all the possible scenarios and uses and what people would want in their homes. We know that we will sell a lot of these speakers to those that WANT to pair then with a sub (they are killer for HT). We also know there are lots that want these but with more bass as they DON'T want to use a sub (those like you). Hence, the x-optima (as well as the x-otica ;)) That is why all the different models exist... to fill all requirements :D

Thanks,

Sean
AV123

If I am going to pay $700 for a pair of floorstanders, I expect them to go a lot lower than that, especially as I will never use a sub. My tiny minimonitors go a full 10Hz lower for $220!:eek:

[darien87]

Joe, no problem at all there. There are compromises of course :) While you will get more bass, you lose the utterly transparent nature of these speakers.

If bass is your drug, the x-mtm encore at $549 is -3 @ 40Hz. We also have the $299 x-ls encore that is also -3 @ 10Hz lower than x-statik.

As a minor aside... we also have the larger x-optima in development that takes all the greatness of the x-statik's and adds loads more bass.

When designing speakers, we look at all the possible scenarios and uses and what people would want in their homes. We know that we will sell a lot of these speakers to those that WANT to pair then with a sub (they are killer for HT). We also know there are lots that want these but with more bass as they DON'T want to use a sub (those like you). Hence, the x-optima (as well as the x-otica ;)) That is why all the different models exist... to fill all requirements :D

Thanks,

Sean
AV123
Sounds like you guys are doing things right; submitting different offering for different people. You've gotta have one of the best jobs in the world. :D

[Sean Parque]

Some days it is a real bummer (can't please everyone all the time) but most days, it rocks :D (get to listen to tunes on great gear all day)

Sean
AV123

Sounds like you guys are doing things right; submitting different offering for different people. You've gotta have one of the best jobs in the world. :D

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We also have the larger x-optima in development that takes all the greatness of the x-statik's and adds loads more bass.



I would like to know more about the x-optima. These new speakers do look amazing! And those pics are beautiful.

Do you guys also sell just one speaker if someone wants to use them as a center speaker (like 5 identical speakers)?

[3db]

If I am going to pay $700 for a pair of floorstanders, I expect them to go a lot lower than that, especially as I will never use a sub. My tiny minimonitors go a full 10Hz lower for $220!:eek:

I guess they were designed with a sub in mind. No harm there. Like you, my preference would be for my speaker to deliver a near full range as possible without a sub while listening to music. Like Sean says, it depends on the intended purpose of the design . :)

[j_garcia]

If it were a music only system for me, I would prefer deeper extension, but I don't have a problem at all with the extension on those guys, especially when coupled with a good sub.

[Joe Schmoe]

If I were to get AV123 speakers, they would probably be the Reference minimonitors. I am so pleased with my CA S30 minimonitors that I find the concept of something almost as small but over 5X the price (from a company that offers good value) is very intriguing.

[gus6464]

Are they meant to be toed-in for best imaging or do they follow the ribbon tweeter philosophy of straight ahead placement?

[j_garcia]

They have dome tweeters, so I don't see why they would be directional like a ribbon, however my A/V-2s ARE sensitive to placement for optimum performance.

[Sean Parque]

I'm not at liberty to say much of anything on the x-optima. Sorry :( It is in development so it is hush for the time being.

Yes, we sell single speakers - no problem.

Sean

I would like to know more about the x-optima. These new speakers do look amazing! And those pics are beautiful.

Do you guys also sell just one speaker if someone wants to use them as a center speaker (like 5 identical speakers)?

[Sean Parque]

I toe mine (well, the test pair I listen to here) in a little. Not pointing at me but a little off axis.

Sean

Are they meant to be toed-in for best imaging or do they follow the ribbon tweeter philosophy of straight ahead placement?

[bandphan]

If I am going to pay $700 for a pair of floorstanders, I expect them to go a lot lower than that, especially as I will never use a sub. My tiny minimonitors go a full 10Hz lower for $220!:eek:

joe, why would you not consider a sub? just curious. The speakers probably have amazing detail, and with the sub to fill out the low end why would that be a problem. 700 for a pair of mains isnt that pricey, and if 5-7hundred added for a sub, for an overall cost of around 1500 a bet that would be a nice setup.

[Joe Schmoe]

joe, why would you not consider a sub? just curious. The speakers probably have amazing detail, and with the sub to fill out the low end why would that be a problem. 700 for a pair of mains isnt that pricey, and if 5-7hundred added for a sub, for an overall cost of around 1500 a bet that would be a nice setup.

I guess I am just one of those rare people who considers the bottom 1.5 octaves irrelevant for music. Also, not having the very deepest bass prevents room issues. I definitely prefer less bass but tighter over more bass but boomier. (Indeed, I A/Bed my Cambridge S30s and Mirage Omni 350s again this weekend just to be sure. I preferred the tiny S30s, and less but better bass was one reason.)
Also, $1500 would buy one heck of a pair of minimonitors. Given how fantastic my minimonitors sound for only $220, I am incapable of imagining how insane a $1500 pair the same size would sound!

[Davidt1]

I guess I am just one of those rare people who considers the bottom 1.5 octaves irrelevant for music. Also, not having the very deepest bass prevents room issues. I definitely prefer less bass but tighter over more bass but boomier. (Indeed, I A/Bed my Cambridge S30s and Mirage Omni 350s again this weekend just to be sure. I preferred the tiny S30s, and less but better bass was one reason.)
Also, $1500 would buy one heck of a pair of minimonitors. Given how fantastic my minimonitors sound for only $220, I am incapable of imagining how insane a $1500 pair the same size would sound!

You must like them S30 a lot. I have been thinking about getting new speakers -- particularly the Mordaunt Short MS 912. I have an idea. Now hear me out. Why don't you buy a pair of MS912 and a/b them with the S30? Then keep the better pair and send me the ones you don't want for the same price you paid. You have nothing to lose really. If the MS912 are better than the S30, then you will have an even greater pair of speakers to keep. If you send me the S30, I will be happy because if they are good enough for you they are good enough me. If you send me the MS912, I will be happy too. You might ask, "Why don't you just buy the speakers yourself?" Good question, but this isn't about me. It's about the interest of the audioholics community. I could buy a pair of the MS 912, but we will never know how good they really are next good speakers like the S30. What do you say?

Sorry folks for hijacking this.

[Joe Schmoe]

They no longer make the 912. The closest current equivalent is the 902. Wild West Electronics carries those and the S30s, which would allow you to try both and keep the ones you prefer.
The fact that my S30s are made to go with my Cambridge electronics gives me a definite bias, and makes it unlikely that I could prefer anything in the same price range. (Indeed, B&W CM1s are 4X the price, and I heard no difference. This was an in-store audition rather than a direct A/B, though.)

[ichigo]

No difference? So you found two speakers from 2 different brands with the identical sonic signature? They must be using the same parts!

[Soundman]

Joe, no problem at all there. There are compromises of course :) While you will get more bass, you lose the utterly transparent nature of these speakers.

If bass is your drug, the x-mtm encore at $549 is -3 @ 40Hz. We also have the $299 x-ls encore that is also -3 @ 10Hz lower than x-statik.

As a minor aside... we also have the larger x-optima in development that takes all the greatness of the x-statik's and adds loads more bass.

When designing speakers, we look at all the possible scenarios and uses and what people would want in their homes. We know that we will sell a lot of these speakers to those that WANT to pair then with a sub (they are killer for HT). We also know there are lots that want these but with more bass as they DON'T want to use a sub (those like you). Hence, the x-optima (as well as the x-otica ;)) That is why all the different models exist... to fill all requirements :D

Thanks,

Sean
AV123

Lots of good info, Sean! :D

[TLS Guy]

Why does a speaker with that many drivers and decent size cabinet only have the following frequency response:

Frequency Response: 65 Hz to 20 KHz (± 3 dB)

Because it has two 6.5 inch drivers in a sealed enclosure. That is what you would expect. Don't forget roll off will be 12 db per octave. However bass performance no better than most bookshelves.

However, I would bet the 200 Hz crossover is first order, and a zobel may not have been included, so that the lower drivers are rolling off very gradually to fill in for the two small drivers, in the very narrow baffle were diffraction and cancellation losses have to be severe.

Peerless India have been around since 1977. They make a large range of cheap OEM drivers. Tymphany, I don't think picked them up in the merger.

The India line was always separate from the Scandinavian Peerless line.

I have never seen any of their offerings I would be tempted to use. Madisound have not put their offering in their product list.

[Sean Parque]

Just a quick note on drivers: The woofers are made by Peerless India to our exact parameters. They would be the same if Peerless Denmark made them or whoever else. We use Peerless India because they are responsive to our requests, priced reasonable and their defect rate is extraordinarily low.

Thanks,

Sean

[TLS Guy]

Just a quick note on drivers: The woofers are made by Peerless India to our exact parameters. They would be the same if Peerless Denmark made them or whoever else. We use Peerless India because they are responsive to our requests, priced reasonable and their defect rate is extraordinarily low.

Thanks,

Sean

Thanks for the info. I knew those drivers were not in their current OEM list, as none could fit your specifications. Nice to know they are doing a good job for you.

Did I guess the 200Hz crossover somewhat close?

[Sean Parque]

Crossover: 200Hz & 1800Hz, 3rd order electrical slope on the tweeter, midrange low pass is 3rd order electrical and high pass is 1st order electrical. The woofer low pass slope is 2nd order electrical. Acoustically they all match.

Did I guess the 200Hz crossover somewhat close?

[TLS Guy]

Crossover: 200Hz & 1800Hz, 3rd order electrical slope on the tweeter, midrange low pass is 3rd order electrical and high pass is 1st order electrical. The woofer low pass slope is 2nd order electrical. Acoustically they all match.

So the sealed bass speakers are down 12 db by 400 Hz. I'm surprised that compensates for the cancellation and diffraction losses of the open baffle drivers.

[Sean Parque]

TLS,

Maybe once we are shipping these in big quantities you can catch someone in MN and listen to theirs. Post an audition request on the AV123 forum in a few weeks and you should find someone close :)

Sean

[TLS Guy]

So the sealed bass speakers are down 12 db by 400 Hz. I'm surprised that compensates for the cancellation and diffraction losses of the open baffle drivers.

In the lakes country of North Central Minnesota I doubt there will be one near by!

[Sean Parque]

Why - is that waaaay out there in BFE? ;)

Sean

In the lakes country of North Central Minnesota I doubt there will be one near by!

[TLS Guy]

Why - is that waaaay out there in BFE? ;)

Sean

Yes, we are 200 miles from the Twin Cities. I'm not really interested in those speakers. I'm just curious with that design, I always am when a speaker is out of the mold. There has to be a substantial first order roll off from the open baffle speakers. The second order woofer crossover it seems to me would make a poor splice with the open baffle drivers. Therefore you would have to rely on speaker placement and room gain to help out. I suppose, though, you did not want the impedance to drop down to 2 ohms or below, if you made the sealed woofers fill in the loss all the way. Then you would have had budget speakers needing a high priced amp. It seems to me there has to be a compromise here.

Here are my speakers.

http://mdcarter.smugmug.com/gallery/2424008_RKGvb#127077317

[Sean Parque]

TLS,

There has to be a substantial first order roll off from the open baffle speakers. The second order woofer crossover it seems to me would make a poor splice with the open baffle drivers.

Not really... The mids already have a natural first order roll off. Adding the first order high pass filter to it creates a higher order acoustic roll off. This perfectly matches the roll off of the woofers that use a second order (electrical) low pass filter.

Therefore you would have to rely on speaker placement and room gain to help out.

Room gain is not needed to yield a flat response.

I suppose, though, you did not want the impedance to drop down to 2 ohms or below, if you made the sealed woofers fill in the loss all the way.

There is a crossover between those sets of drivers. It is not a 2.5 way design. The drivers sum perfectly without any low impedance load just like any other three way design.

So the sealed bass speakers are down 12 db by 400 Hz.

Acoustically they are down more than 18db by 400Hz.

...so that the lower drivers are rolling off very gradually to fill in for the two small drivers, in the very narrow baffle were diffraction and cancellation losses have to be severe.

The diffraction is minimized by the narrow baffle and cancellation of the dipole effect is only at 90 degrees off axis. Off axis measurements show loss of output to be extremely balanced and much better than most other speakers (if you don't mind me saying :))