Speaker wires for my Athena's.

[irvin]

Right now I am using Monster 16 ga. speaker wires for my Athena as-f1. I have an Onkyo 503 (75 watts high current receiver). Should I get 14 or 12 guage wires and if so what kind of difference will it make in the sound.

[mulester7]

Right now I am using Monster 16 ga. speaker wires for my Athena as-f1. I have an Onkyo 503 (75 watts high current receiver). Should I get 14 or 12 guage wires and if so what kind of difference will it make in the sound......Irvin, overkill in speaker wire is relatively cheap....I would use a quality 12 ga as minimum.....don't buy monster speaker wire, and we're done....I personally love Sound King speaker wire, and personally use their 10 ga.....

[MDS]

It depends on the distance to the speakers. If they are under 20 feet away, 16 gauge will be fine. If you go to a lower gauge you will technically have slightly less loss and the change in sound quality will be...zero.

[mulester7]

If you go to a lower gauge you will technically have slightly less loss .....and that small and inaudible slightly less loss, could be the factor when coupled with some unpleasantry elsewhere....off with it's head cheap....gone for the evening....(THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE)....(AGAIN)....(ACTUALLY,)....(EVERY TIME WITH THIS ANNOUNCEMENT)....(HUH?).....

.....(same frown).....

[Sheep]

I run the same crap as you. Its fine for front and anything under 25feet or so. If you need/want bigger wire for bragging rights, Sound king is good stuff.

http://www.partexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-156

SheepStar

[sokrman14]

check out audioquest at www.audioquest.com I am using their type 4 speaker wire. It runs about $180 for a 10 foot pair, professionally terminated, and they blow away any monster speaker wire. Check it out though.

[Sheep]

check out audioquest at www.audioquest.com I am using their type 4 speaker wire. It runs about $180 for a 10 foot pair, professionally terminated, and they blow away any monster speaker wire. Check it out though.


Don't listen to him.

This wire is a RIP off. Sound king stuff will put up better numbers for way less.


SheepStar

[MDS]

.....and that small and inaudible slightly less loss, could be the factor when coupled with some unpleasantry elsewhere....off with it's head cheap....gone for the evening....(THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE)....(AGAIN)....(ACTUALLY,)....(EVERY TIME WITH THIS ANNOUNCEMENT)....(HUH?).....

.....(same frown).....

Frowning on the facts again, eh?

You only have to please yourself. If you need to use 10 ga wire to ward off imaginary demons, so be it. Might I also suggest you never leave the closet door open while you sleep or let your feet dangle off the edge of the bed - you never know...monsters just might be real.

[sokrman14]

Ill have you know Sheep, I have actually had a demo with a roomful of about 150 people using basic audioquest vs. a middle to top of the line from monster, and I can promise you, and all 150 people as well, that they are a better cable. And it has nothing to do with the gauge, it has to do with how the wire is made. If you don't want to buy them then dont, but let the man decide for himself if he likes them or not.

[MDS]

I am normally a big fan of overkill, but not for speaker wire. I have used 10 ga and I told that story before. It's way too thick and unwieldy and gave no difference in sound quality that I could discern.

The next time you encounter a monster, strangle it with your 10ga wire and take a photo for me.

[mulester7]

Frowning on the facts again, eh?

You only have to please yourself. If you need to use 10 ga wire to ward off imaginary demons, so be it. Might I also suggest you never leave the closet door open while you sleep or let your feet dangle off the edge of the bed - you never know...monsters just might be real......MDS, I whupped a closet monster just night before last, and now he washes pots in the kitchen on day-shift under the watchful eye of Helga....I believe in cheap rehabilitation labor, MDS, and Helga can work 'em down....and MDS, you order Sound King 10 ga one time, the 250 foot roll, and you'll only think bigger, by the foot, for your subs....it's WONDERFUL to work with, and looks GREAT....to me....and I figure into the equation....as afore mentioned, it's mighty cheap overkill for potential combinations.....

[markw]

Ill have you know Sheep, I have actually had a demo with a roomful of about 150 people using basic audioquest vs. a middle to top of the line from monster, and I can promise you, and all 150 people as well, that they are a better cable. And it has nothing to do with the gauge, it has to do with how the wire is made. If you don't want to buy them then dont, but let the man decide for himself if he likes them or not.You're implying that all 150 people heard the difference? That flies in the face of all speaker wire testing that's ever been done under proper conditions.

[Sheep]

Ill have you know Sheep, I have actually had a demo with a roomful of about 150 people using basic audioquest vs. a middle to top of the line from monster, and I can promise you, and all 150 people as well, that they are a better cable. And it has nothing to do with the gauge, it has to do with how the wire is made. If you don't want to buy them then dont, but let the man decide for himself if he likes them or not.

You should really read this.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/audioquestDBScablesrespons.php

A good cable won't improve the sound, it will try not to affect the sound as much.

Blind tests mean nothing when the people taking the test no squat about audio. Ga. and construction have everything to do with how the cable performs. If you like Audioquest, you should look at Mapleshade, and Bose.

SheepStar

[jaxvon]

Ill have you know Sheep, I have actually had a demo with a roomful of about 150 people using basic audioquest vs. a middle to top of the line from monster, and I can promise you, and all 150 people as well, that they are a better cable. And it has nothing to do with the gauge, it has to do with how the wire is made. If you don't want to buy them then dont, but let the man decide for himself if he likes them or not.

To say that "it has nothing to do with the gauge" is 100% false. A lower gauge cable will have less resistive losses. A cable that isn't of a sufficient guage will actually attenuate the signal, sometimes to an audible degree.

[mtrycrafts]

A cable that isn't of a sufficient guage will actually attenuate the signal, sometimes to an audible degree.


That is absolutely so :D
Greenhill demonstrated just this some years back with 24ga vs 16ga and 12ga:D

[mtrycrafts]

The next time you encounter a monster, strangle it with your 10ga wire and take a photo for me.


He needs to share it with all of us here. I am interested as well:D Finally, that monster kill.:cool:

[mtrycrafts]

Ill have you know Sheep, I have actually had a demo with a roomful of about 150 people using basic audioquest vs. a middle to top of the line from monster, and I can promise you, and all 150 people as well, that they are a better cable. And it has nothing to do with the gauge, it has to do with how the wire is made. If you don't want to buy them then dont, but let the man decide for himself if he likes them or not.


Interesting story. 1000s have claimed to have been abducted by space aliens.
Have you heard about mass hysteria? This is a real phenomenon and such a crowd is not immune from it.

In speaker cables, resistance and inductance are the main factors of importance. But that's just me still trying to get out of a hole.:p

[mulester7]

In speaker cables, resistance and inductance are the main factors of importance. But that's just me still trying to get out of a hole.:p.....you ain't in no hole on speaker wire, Mtry....if I'm missing something not using Monster wire, even with it's claim of being made differently, I shall continue on, undaunted.....

[mtrycrafts]

.....you ain't in no hole on speaker wire, Mtry....if I'm missing something not using Monster wire, even with it's claim of being made differently, I shall continue on, undaunted.....


Nothing wrong with the Monster wire itself. Just everything beyond it where the issues are:D

[jaxter]

Ill have you know Sheep, I have actually had a demo with a roomful of about 150 people using basic audioquest vs. a middle to top of the line from monster, and I can promise you, and all 150 people as well, that they are a better cable. And it has nothing to do with the gauge, it has to do with how the wire is made. If you don't want to buy them then dont, but let the man decide for himself if he likes them or not.

I am very interested. How about a double blind listening tests to help determine the differences?
How exactly was the wire made and what measurable and audible differences does this bring out?
Was this demo double blind? What specifically were the differences? Was there any measurements taken to qualify these differences? I would be very interested in quatifiable differences.
Do you believe that in a double blind test that the differences could be detected repeatably and reliably?
Were the differences in resistance , inductance and capacitance measured at any time before during or after the demonstration?
Please illuminate this topic with any information that will shed light on this subject.

[RJB]

I love it when this debate comes up again and again...

It's the same old story as far as I'm concerned, people pay and will continue to pay big bucks for quality speaker cables where the majority of the cost is for the name.

Does Monster ( and other specialty co's ) make cable that works well - YES
Do you pay a major premium for the name on the cable - YES

Once physics enters the equation the playing field get a lot more level. Regardless of who makes the cables, if they use good quality materials and have decent quality control the end result will be the same. It doesn't matter what a company claims to do during their "special" manufacturing process, they can't alter the laws of physics...

Would I spend $180 bucks for a 10' pair of cables - NO, not when I can get the same quality ( using applied physics ) from another manufacturer for $25 or less...

That's my opinion, not yours...

[mtrycrafts]

I love it when this debate comes up again and again...
...


Homeopathy been around 100+ years and still it comes up for debate among the less informed:D

[mulester7]

.....Radio Shack Gold Line, SoundKing wire, and I'm done.....Monster?....off with it's head.....

[Fl_Gulfer]

I have a ? also.. I had my system assembled back in 98 8 olm speakers 5-1 system, the guy brought the cable its a grey cable (West Penn Wire its 16 awg cul type ul 75c) what ever that all means, anyway each wire is about 100 ft long "all 5" he told me they all needed to be the same length is this true? and shouldn't I have 12 awg with lines this long. my rears are about a 100 ft run of wire and the fronts are maybe 10 ft away.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/297762768/308938199NGVpbX

[MDS]

12 gauge should be ok for 100 foot runs if the speakers are 8 Ohm. Here is speaker cable info written by a former McIntosh engineer: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

As for needing to keep the wires all the same length, that is baloney. If your front speakers are 10 feet away, you need 10 feet of wire. For such a short distance, you don't even need 12 gauge, although it won't hurt if you use it.

Nice looking room. You know you can buy a corner wire mold (and even paint it) to hide the wires in the corner behind the tv. That's what we did for my sister's place as her tv is in the corner too and you can't even tell the molding is there because it blends right in.

[Sheep]

I have a ? also.. I had my system assembled back in 98 8 olm speakers 5-1 system, the guy brought the cable its a grey cable (West Penn Wire its 16 awg cul type ul 75c) what ever that all means, anyway each wire is about 100 ft long "all 5" he told me they all needed to be the same length is this true? and shouldn't I have 12 awg with lines this long. my rears are about a 100 ft run of wire and the fronts are maybe 10 ft away.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/297762768/308938199NGVpbX

Just move the AV rack and put the tower there.

This is why I don't like corner setups. Plus, its a pain for proper surround setup.

SheepStar

[Fl_Gulfer]

If I had somewhere to move the Rack I would, the double doors are to my 20 x 25 TV room, I had to turn it into a Mother-In-Law Apartment. So the corner setup is temp. soultion. If I move the rack I have to get longer wires from the receiver to the TV. My mother-in-law is 91 today so I will get the room back someday, then I'll just fill in the small hole in the ceiling. Thanks for the help I guess I'll find somewhere to order a few hundred ft. of 12 gage.

[jaxvon]

Your wires don't have to all be the same length. It'd take a BIG difference in cable length to get an audible or even measurable difference.

[3db]

check out audioquest at www.audioquest.com I am using their type 4 speaker wire. It runs about $180 for a 10 foot pair, professionally terminated, and they blow away any monster speaker wire. Check it out though.


Must be nice to have money like that to throw it away on stuff like esoteric speaker wire.

[3db]

You're implying that all 150 people heard the difference? That flies in the face of all speaker wire testing that's ever been done under proper conditions.

If it wasn't a double blind test, than the results aren't worth their weight in salt.

[ducker]

wow he has AS-F1 speakers... why on earth would he then blow hundreds of dollers on cable??? come on people, if you gonna post, post something something helpful that's in his ball park!

Ratshack gold works just fine... I went to Home Depot standard grey 14ga wire. I'm not running lenghs of more then 25' for my rears... and that works just fine.

Would 12 or 10ga work? Sure... but it's more expensive and what I gain out of it is small all things considered.

[kelly]

I believe that using good speaker wire is the right thing to do. I do however think that it is easy to get duped into going overboard when it is not necesary. I run a fairly nice system, and I use audioquest type 4. It is a couple of levels above entry. My friend and I have almost the same systems, but he uses audioquest bedrock, at about three times the price of the type four. I have heard no real difference. I would go with good middle of the road wire. Audiquest type 4,6, or 8 no higher.

[jaxvon]

Or instead of Audioquest type 4, you can buy some Canare 4S11 and get the same thing with documented performance from a reputable manufacturer at a fraction of the price.

http://www.westlake-electronic.com/cgi-bin/store.php?search=yes&detail=yes&and=0&SUBCAT=all&keywords=4s11&item_no=CAN-4S11-100MT&category=CAB&redir=1

[Sheep]

Or instead of Audioquest type 4, you can buy some Canare 4S11 and get the same thing with documented performance from a reputable manufacturer at a fraction of the price.

http://www.westlake-electronic.com/cgi-bin/store.php?search=yes&detail=yes&and=0&SUBCAT=all&keywords=4s11&item_no=CAN-4S11-100MT&category=CAB&redir=1

OHhhhhh you got served! :rolleyes:

How about you take some basic 12ga. and compare it with your audioquest stuff. See if theres a difference.

SheepStar