What is up with the JBL Synthesis systems? [Archive]

silversurfer

05-30-2005, 09:08 PM

These are THX certified systems all designed to work in concert together, and fill specific sized rooms with reference quality sound.

I can show you a speaker with similar specs that would not be close to filling the rooms as much as these can.

Put together a system that can fill 75,000 cu. ft., play at reference levels and see what you can come up with.

FWIW, I believe the THX bass/LFE spec rolls off around 30hz.

Buckeyefan 1

05-30-2005, 10:51 PM

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/

I am more or less looking at the K2 S9800 and for the price of around $35,000CND the specs do not look good at all. Does anyone have any experience with the K2 S9800?

I'm looking at the "Synthesis HT" system, and my guess is that it would absolutely blow away 98% of all our systems for HT. Lets ignore the specs for a second. Who here has a 97lb amplifier, a pair of 12" subwoofers that can handle their dedicated 1000 watt rms amps, and an 83 band 22lb parametric digital eq? All but the surround speakers are rated to 20,000Hz, and the dual subs that "only" go down to 25Hz will do so at earthshaking levels. This is an HT setup. It's meant to recreate a cinema in the home. It doesn't need the 50,000Hz ribbon tweeters or 16Hz SV subs to reproduce Speilbergs flicks. It simply exceeds THX standards to recreate the movie theater experience.

www.jblsynthesis.com/products/system_overview.aspx?prod=SYN-HT4-L7&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

silversurfer

05-30-2005, 11:31 PM

Right on Buck.....and reference quality in your home to boot. It would be interesting to know what the cost of the "smaller" systems are.

Also, the pre/pro and amps are basicly rebadged Lexicon units. JBL's and Lexicon's parent company is Harman International.

jaxvon

05-30-2005, 11:57 PM

anamorphic96

05-31-2005, 12:10 AM

IMO the JBL systems kick major butt. Ignore the specs.

This system will be EQ'd and if they stay anywhere near whats referred to as the X-Curve in the cinema and film industry there will be roll off starting at 2k hence the 17k upper end. Everthing else will flat to about 20 to 25hz. This explains the specs. At least in my eyes. I think the THX curve boosts the bass at about 30 to 35 hz.

I have watched about 6 movies through these systems in various versions and every single time my jaw hit the floor. Everything about them scares me. When set up PROPERLY the resolution,dynamics and accuracy are incerdible. You get exactly what the director and sound designer wanted you to here.

I will admit some people might question JBL products. The home products are very misguided and poor quality. With some exceptions being the K series and the TIK models.

But when it comes to the Professional stuff, dont ever count JBL out. They have some of the finest cinema systems in the world and the ad about them being in about 75 percent of all movie theatres is not an exageration. I have been in the cinema industry for 10 years and the #1 speaker I see is JBL.

They are very easy to EQ and can take some serious abuse. There sub drivers are some of the finest I have ever seen. They where the fisrst to market a 3 way based cinema stage speaker. They also had the exclusive manufacturing rights when THX systems where introduced to the public.

If there is one thing JBL knows its cinema based loudspeaker systems. :D

Buckeyefan 1

05-31-2005, 09:06 AM

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have ripped on their stuff. The electronics seem out of this world. I mean, check these power specs:

Power Rating (20Hz – 20kHz, <0.03% THD, All Channels Driven) Output 8 Ohms 160 Watts per channel into 8 ohms, all channels driven

WOW :eek:

Anyway, I guess they can't get tons of subsonic bass due to the size constraints the format dictates. Not everyone has room for a monster SVS sub.

Also, regarding the sub, notice the difference in frequency response with and without the eq. Pretty amazing. Don't forget to check out the weight and sensitivity of this unit. I'd love to hear a side by side comparison of a top SVS and this JBL Pro unit. I'd think theater owners would use SVS if it was better.

Maybe we all need eq's.

www.jblpro.com/pub/cinema/4642a.pdf

silversurfer

05-31-2005, 12:30 PM

Also, regarding the sub, notice the difference in frequency response with and without the eq. Pretty amazing. Don't forget to check out the weight and sensitivity of this unit. I'd love to hear a side by side comparison of a top SVS and this JBL Pro unit. I'd think theater owners would use SVS if it was better.

Maybe we all need eq's.

www.jblpro.com/pub/cinema/4642a.pdf
EQing the in-room response of a sub usually makes huge differences to the listener and experience.

SVS is not that well known outside of the internet.

Rock&Roll Ninja

05-31-2005, 12:43 PM

Audioholics should do a shootout/comparison between the JBL Synthesis and the Klipsch THX Ultra2 high-end HT systems. That will make my purchasing decision easier when I finally win big on these scratch-off tickets......

Buckeyefan 1

05-31-2005, 01:19 PM

Check out pgs. 41-45 if you've ever wondered what was behind the curtain of a movie theater.

Check out pgs. 10 and 15 for some nice home speakers that the wife would love for her decor.

pdf file, so let it load first.

www.jblpro.com/JBL_Professional%20_Catalog2005.pdf

Privateer

05-31-2005, 06:48 PM

Buckeyefan 1

Who here has a 97lb amplifier, a pair of 12" subwoofers that can handle their dedicated 1000 watt rms amps

I do.

and the dual subs that "only" go down to 25Hz will do so at earthshaking levels.

The sub does not look that great. I would put the Velodyne Digital Drive 1812 up against the S1S-EX any day.

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=3&sid=503x289g
http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/specs/DD_1812_Sign.html

I'd love to hear a side by side comparison of a top SVS and this JBL Pro unit

Why not pick a better sub.

jaxvon

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have ripped on their stuff. The electronics seem out of this world. I mean, check these power specs: Power Rating (20Hz – 20kHz, <0.03% THD, All Channels Driven) Output 8 Ohms 160 Watts per channel into 8 ohms, all channels driven

That is not impressive.

Privateer

05-31-2005, 06:51 PM

Here is the main point I am trying to make, for the price of there equipment you can do better with other high end companies and keep the sound quality at the same time.

Rock&Roll Ninja

05-31-2005, 08:11 PM

The sub does not look that great. I would put the Velodyne Digital Drive 1812 up against the S1S-EX any day.

Of course the sub costing six times what the S1S does is going to outperform it......

Buckeyefan 1

05-31-2005, 08:52 PM

Buckeyefan 1

I do.

The sub does not look that great. I would put the Velodyne Digital Drive 1812 up against the S1S-EX any day.

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=3&sid=503x289g
http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/specs/DD_1812_Sign.html

Why not pick a better sub.

jaxvon

That is not impressive.

You are in that 2% I mentioned earlier. You must be one of the few "rich guys" on the forum. Lucky dog. That sub is pretty impressive. I've never seen it. If money wasn't a factor, I'd take the Velo. I think the JBL Synthesis is geared more toward commercial and pro audio, while that Velodyne is more for residential usage. It's prettier, too.

BTW, what is your setup based on your reply?

anamorphic96

05-31-2005, 09:37 PM

When I viewed movies and one of them being Jurrasic Park I had absolutely no complaints with the sub. Very deep and tight with good control. You felt the foot steps. Speed was another movie I watched with great pleasure.

I love the scale and visceral impact these systems offer. However they need to be in a small to medium sized screening rooms to sound there best.

jaxvon

06-01-2005, 12:29 AM

I guess I have something against JBL due to my experience with some of their pro stuff. I've worked with their top-end portable systems (passive speakers and powered subs) and neither impresses me much. The subs don't go very low at all, and just tend to sound boomy and undefined. And these are 18" subs. Call me a cynic, but I don't think that 35Hz is very respectable for a massive sub.

Of course, I do realize that they are designed for live settings where music doesn't really go below that, I would think they should be capable of lower frequencies. But perhaps if they are tuned higher they can achieve maximum output at desired and useful frequencies. I honestly don't know (WmAx?).

I just think that even when going with a custom install, you can do a lot better than a synthesis system for the money, meaning better bass depth, better sounding highs (while I haven't heard one personally, I do know what JBL horns sound like, and it's not to my liking), and so on.

And hell, if you wanna talk about a manly dual 18" sub, let's discuss the Wilson XS. 16Hz at 112dB Anyone?

Sheep

06-01-2005, 02:03 AM

SvS b4 plus. thats a manly subwoofer.
I read a review, somewhere, on this sub. The guy was using it OUTSIDE, with a crown K1 amp(1000wattsRMS) and it did 15hz at 100db and the amp shut down. The guy needed a more powerful amp to get the real numbers on the sub, but they didn't get one :( . i don't know about you, but the b4plus could waste at 1812, and you would have alot more money left over. Im not saying the 1812 is crap, but i wouldn't shell that out knowing what the b4plus is capable of.

on an opposite topic, Svsess(blah?) cheapest sub, pb10 I believe, is a monster for 400 bucks. I read a review, somewhere, wher a guy was testing outside, and it was within +/-1DB from 100 or 120, to 19hz, and inside it went down to 15hz at +/-3db I believe. You gotta hand it to SVS, they make sweet subs, for a great price.

sheep

Privateer

06-01-2005, 04:23 PM

Of course the sub costing six times what the S1S does is going to outperform it......

I could not find a price for the S1S-EX but I assumed that since the hercules system runs $150,000US that they would match it with a quality sub. What is the price of a S1S-EX?

You are in that 2% I mentioned earlier. You must be one of the few "rich guys" on the forum. Lucky dog. That sub is pretty impressive. I've never seen it. If money wasn't a factor, I'd take the Velo. I think the JBL Synthesis is geared more toward commercial and pro audio, while that Velodyne is more for residential usage. It's prettier, too. BTW, what is your setup based on your reply?

Rich, no but I am 23 and I have no wife/girl friend, bills, dependants, and last year I made $80,000. You would be surprised how much money you have when you keep your pants on and have allot of will power. Plus I spend 95% of my budget on my audio system.

Pre/Pro = Mcintosh MX135
DVD = Mcintosh MVP861
AMP = Mcintosh MC207
Fronts = Martin logan Ascent i (soon to be Mcintosh XRT28)
Center = Mcintosh XR27
Rears = Martin logan Aeon i
Sub = Velodyne HGS-15

SvS b4 plus. thats a manly subwoofer. I read a review, somewhere, on this sub. The guy was using it OUTSIDE, with a crown K1 amp(1000wattsRMS) and it did 15hz at 100db and the amp shut down. The guy needed a more powerful amp to get the real numbers on the sub, but they didn't get one . i don't know about you, but the b4plus could waste at 1812, and you would have alot more money left over. Im not saying the 1812 is crap, but i wouldn't shell that out knowing what the b4plus is capable of. on an opposite topic, Svsess(blah?) cheapest sub, pb10 I believe, is a monster for 400 bucks. I read a review, somewhere, wher a guy was testing outside, and it was within +/-1DB from 100 or 120, to 19hz, and inside it went down to 15hz at +/-3db I believe. You gotta hand it to SVS, they make sweet subs, for a great price.

Is this a joke? The Velodyne Digital Drive 1812 would slaughter your SVS sub. Next you will say that your SVS sub can take on the Krell master reference sub. I assume you meant the SVS B12-Plus/4?

http://www.krellonline.com/html/m_MRS_p_MRS.html

silversurfer

06-01-2005, 04:35 PM

all this talk about SPL. Sound quality for me. As long as the sub gets loud enough for me in my room, that is all I need. Along the way, it has to sound good.

Buckeyefan 1

06-01-2005, 04:56 PM

Rich, no but I am 23 and I have no wife/girl friend, bills, dependants, and last year I made $80,000. You would be surprised how much money you have when you keep your pants on and have allot of will power. Plus I spend 95% of my budget on my audio system.

Pre/Pro = Mcintosh MX135
DVD = Mcintosh MVP861
AMP = Mcintosh MC207
Fronts = Martin logan Ascent i (soon to be Mcintosh XRT28)
Center = Mcintosh XR27
Rears = Martin logan Aeon i
Sub = Velodyne HGS-15

The chix will kill you man. I was going to ask about your retirement, but I guess the audio system is your retirement. :) Nice setup. Now unless you run into a babe with a doctorate, I suggest you stay single with that taste in music.

Rock&Roll Ninja

06-01-2005, 06:37 PM

Next you will say that your SVS sub can take on the Krell master reference sub. I assume you meant the SVS B12-Plus/4?

The Krell MRS is a total dog of a subwoofer. I demo'd one for a short time during my last trip to NYC. It didn't play particularly low (of course, these days we are spoiled with sub-$1000 subs playing under 20Hz), nor was it very "tight". Its not terrible, but its a good value for a $1500 subwoofer.

But It has "Krell" written on it, and that makes it desirable to its target audience: The same people who buy Viking 30,000btu free ranges and don't know how to cook. I've never heard the SVS in question, but I'd honestly take dual HSU Tn1220's over the Krell MRS for sound-quality.

Privateer

06-01-2005, 08:08 PM

The Krell MRS is a total dog of a subwoofer. I demo'd one for a short time during my last trip to NYC. It didn't play particularly low (of course, these days we are spoiled with sub-$1000 subs playing under 20Hz), nor was it very "tight". Its not terrible, but its a good value for a $1500 subwoofer.

What? Hmm $1500 for a Krell MR sub? Well last time I checked it was around $28,000US! Ya this sub blows goats, 2,600 watts of power, weighs 420 pounds, and is capable of reproducing a 20 hz tone at 120 dB! Man this sub sucks.

but I'd honestly take dual HSU Tn1220's over the Krell MRS for sound-quality.

Whatever.

silversurfer

06-01-2005, 08:32 PM

What? Hmm $1500 for a Krell MR sub? Well last time I checked it was around $28,000US! Ya this sub blows goats, 2,600 watts of power, weighs 420 pounds, and is capable of reproducing a 20 hz tone at 120 dB! Man this sub sucks.

Whatever.

20hz at 120dB, what distance? Means nothing without that info.

The TN1220 is one great subwoofer. It is one thing to hit the low notes, it is another to be able to distinguish which different instruments hit those notes with detail in "voicing" or timbre.

Privateer

06-01-2005, 09:06 PM

The TN1220 is one great subwoofer. It is one thing to hit the low notes, it is another to be able to distinguish which different instruments hit those notes with detail in "voicing" or timbre.

That is like saying I will take the honda civic over the enzo ferrari.

Sheep

06-01-2005, 09:07 PM

is it just me, or is privateer getting really defensive for no reason? But, if you want to take that route....

I don't personally own a b12-plus/4, but atleast there is a review for it. I have only seen one hint of a review for the 1812, and its was like a 200 word paragraph, and he said, 100db's at 16hz.

ok now lets compare.

the b12-plus/4 was OUTSIDE, UNDER POWERED, and it got to 15hz at 100DB. wow, looks like it topped off your velodyne sir. Then you can at probably add 6 db if it was inside, and then even more with the amp had more power and didn't SHUT DOWN.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you have terrible people skills.
sheep

Privateer

06-01-2005, 09:21 PM

Buckeyefan 1

06-01-2005, 09:36 PM

Privateer,

It's an awesome sub, but would you seriously pay that much for it? Like esoteric audio, there is a law of diminishing returns. You said it yourself. This site if more about "best bang for the buck." There is no "bang" in a product costing that much for the return on your investment.

JL Audio is coming out with a line of home theater subs. Have you checked into them? What do you think about their specs? Some of their car subs surpass the specs of the Krell sub. Martin Logan puts out some fantastic subs at prices dwarfing the Krell. Are there any home speakers that can even keep up with a sub capable of those deafening levels?

I guess if you're into Ferrari Enzo's over '06 Z06's, then you can appreciate the badging of a product. If you want shear performance for the dollar, you buy the Z06. It beats the Viper in every aspect except curb appeal. Right?

Rock&Roll Ninja

06-01-2005, 10:29 PM

What? Hmm $1500 for a Krell MR sub? Well last time I checked it was around $28,000US! Ya this sub blows goats, 2,600 watts of power, weighs 420 pounds, and is capable of reproducing a 20 hz tone at 120 dB! Man this sub sucks.

You misread my post. I said is was a good value for a $1500 subwoofer. If you think paying $20,000+ for that kind of performance...well, I ain't gonna stop you.

And if you think the manufacturer's advertised wattage is the end-all of audio specs, well, I suppose the Sunfire company has done well with that kind of business practice......

Your comments comparing a Honda Civic to the Ferrari Enzo or the Dodge Viper is horribly uncalled for. Firstly, you would have to pay me to drive an American death trap, and secondly The Lotus Elise and a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo are probably closer for the price/performance criteria of subwoofers.

craigsub

06-01-2005, 10:37 PM

You know what if you want all volume and no quality then go for it I am done arguing with you morons. If you think your pathetic $1000 sub can take on a $20,000 sub which runs materials and technology far exceeding anything in you pathetic systems so be it. Now you wonder why most people on your site move on to other "high end" forums when they upgrade there systems far beyond 99.9% of people on this site. You can sit back with your mainstream electronics and think wow I have the best and all those high end manufacturers are all show. So if you think your honda civic is better then a dodge viper so be it. Pathetic.

Privateer, As the current owner of a DD-18, and prior owner of a B12-Plus/4, I can assure you a pair of Velodyne DD-18's will easily be outgunned in sheer SPL at any frequency by the SVS.

The Velo does have a killer room interface, and is in its own way an excellent product.

Specifically, in an outdoor 1/2 space, groundplane measurement, the SVS will hit about 110 dB @ 20 Hz @ 2 meters, and do so without audible disortion.

A pair of Velodyne DD-18's will achieve about 103 dB under the same conditions.

The SVS is also a very good performer sonically, as is the Velo, and both are more than enough for most rooms.

Privateer

06-01-2005, 10:43 PM

Rock&Roll Ninja

Hey whatever you want But I am done responding to you.

Buckeyefan 1

You are one of the good few on this forum.

It's an awesome sub, but would you seriously pay that much for it? Like esoteric audio, there is a law of diminishing returns. You said it yourself. This site if more about "best bang for the buck." There is no "bang" in a product costing that much for the return on your investment.

If I were a millionaire and I wanted the best of the best then yes I would pay that much. Bang for your buck is always important but what some other users are saying is insane.

JL Audio is coming out with a line of home theater subs. Have you checked into them? What do you think about their specs? Some of their car subs surpass the specs of the Krell sub. Martin Logan puts out some fantastic subs at prices dwarfing the Krell. Are there any home speakers that can even keep up with a sub capable of those deafening levels?

I will do that right now. There are some home speakers that can keep up but they will cost you allot.

I guess if you're into Ferrari Enzo's over '06 Z06's, then you can appreciate the badging of a product. If you want shear performance for the dollar, you buy the Z06. It beats the Viper in every aspect except curb appeal. Right?

I picked the enzo because I wanted to compare the worst to the best, between the viper and Z06 it is a toss up.

Privateer

06-01-2005, 10:55 PM

Privateer, As the current owner of a DD-18, and prior owner of a B12-Plus/4, I can assure you a pair of Velodyne DD-18's will easily be outgunned in sheer SPL at any frequency by the SVS.

Then why did you not save your money and stick with the B12-Plus/4?

silversurfer

06-01-2005, 11:10 PM

Then why did you not save your money and stick with the B12-Plus/4?
craigsub is popular on some of the other boards. If I recall, he got rid of the B12-Plus/4 in favor of another sub, not the DD-18. The DD-18 is his current sub. Correct me if I am wrong Craig, but you sold the B12-Plus/4 in favor of the bass quality of another sub(I don't remember the sub), not for pure SPL.

Craig has had many subs through his house. Do your research on some of the other boards and you will see what he has used, what he has tested, and what he likes.

Sheep

06-01-2005, 11:19 PM

The viper is better just to let you know. I know what privateer is saying. if I was bill gates, id get the best of the best, but for me the best isn't praticle, and its also different for every person. I like the sound of energy speakers. I have one of their subs, and I like it. I am upgrading to the C-5 towers, cause I like them. If you like the most expensive stuff, great. Go toot your horn where people care. And don't preach it like your right, and their wrong. Its an opinion, yes there are some hard facts, but most is opinion.

And if this forum is full of morons who like mainstream audio products, why are you here?
I could say the same about your taste in music. You like crappy mainstream artists with no skill and talent. WHO CARES. You like what you like.

Now lets leave it at that.(who knew a 17year old would be breaking this up)
sheep

craigsub

06-02-2005, 12:15 AM

Then why did you not save your money and stick with the B12-Plus/4?

Silversurfer is at least partially correct - I have owned a lot of subwoofers. Probably about 70. The "popular" part he may have missed, though ... :p

I did enjoy the B4+ (aka B12-Plus/4) ... it was the ACI Maestro that replaced it. Fantastic subwoofer. I would likely still have them but a great guy wanted to buy them, far be it from me to keep a guy away from good bass.

Privateer, If you make $80K, get a girlfriend. Trust me, they are even better than an 1812.... :cool:

Buckeyefan 1

06-02-2005, 12:31 AM

ACI Maestro. Nice sub.

www.audioc.com/speakers1/maestro/maestro.htm

Looks a lot like a few car subs I've used in the past. Check out these specs. Wonder if they are using similar drivers?

www.cadencestore.com/ProductCart/pc/caraudio_detail.asp?idcategory=23&idproduct=58

craigsub

06-02-2005, 12:35 AM

It measured about 62 mm in total peak to peak movement - the car sub pic DOES resemble the Maestro's driver, but is only a little over 1/3rd the capacity.

There IS a reason why a single, 15 inch, sealed sub costs over $2000 and is STILL a bargain.

Buckeyefan 1

06-02-2005, 12:52 AM

It's probably a good idea to bolt that thing to the floor. Especially hardwood!

Pretty cool website. It's neat they post consumers HT layouts.

silversurfer

06-02-2005, 01:15 AM

ACI is a class act. Not only is that Maestro a great sub, the make some great speakers. Would love to try their new Sapphire. The old one was very nice, and if they have improved on it, look out!

Rock&Roll Ninja

06-02-2005, 01:24 AM

I'll try to live with myself. But it doesn't change the fact that the KMRS is outperformed by other models (some costing more, some less) including the AvantGarde' Basshorn, the Bag End INFRA-18, The ACI Maestro (you may need 2, but they're cheaper at $2500), The Hsu Tn1220's, and even your favorite Velodyne DSP controlled 1812 signature. I'm not talking sheer Db's either, 120 @ 20 is an impressive number, but its also something that I have never encountered in serious music listening, my short list here is all about quality, and I admit there are dozens of excellant models I haven't even heard yet.

I'm sorry if you took my opinion of the Krell subwoofer as a personal attack on you or your sensibilites (Even though you don't own one), but I have to call the overpriced sub for what it is. Compared to a few others I have personally experienced, not relying on fluff reports or 2nd hand accounts, its just not at the top of the hill.

jaxvon

06-02-2005, 01:27 AM

The way I look at it, if a sub can easily do 20Hz @ 120dB, then it will sound AWESOME at normal listening levels at 20Hz on down. Since it can go so much harder, it should be tight, controlled, and not break a sweat, even doing loud HT duty. Extra headroom is always a welcome addition.

silversurfer

06-02-2005, 02:04 AM

I'm not sure I would buy into that theory. I have heard subs that can only play down to about 30hz that sound better (to me) than some subs that play down to 20hz when they both played music above 30hz.

I would rather take a great sounding sub that played only to 30hz, than mediocre sub that played down to 20hz.

jaxvon

06-02-2005, 02:55 AM

I agree with you. I'm talking about the idea that if a sub can sound great doing 20Hz at 120dB, then it should be near perfect if it's doing 20Hz at 100dB. I'm only talking about output at 20Hz, not overall FR.

Privateer

06-02-2005, 04:33 PM

Privateer, If you make $80K, get a girlfriend. Trust me, they are even better than an 1812....

You should see the fat whores were I live. For now and for a long time I will take a good HT/2CH system over a woman any day.

That and everything else aside what would you say is one of the best subwoofers on the market? Tell me and I will go out and buy it.

Buckeyefan 1

06-02-2005, 09:03 PM

You should see the fat whores were I live. For now and for a long time I will take a good HT/2CH system over a woman any day.

That and everything else aside what would you say is one of the best subwoofers on the market? Tell me and I will go out and buy it.

This might be better than a fat whore. My side still hurts!

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_ss.htm

My second choice would be the box sub.

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_b12_plus_4.htm

8118

06-02-2005, 10:20 PM

JBL Synthesis is almost the perfect HT system. Comparing single component actually doesnt make very good sense. HT is a system, all component work together, i rather spend equally for all, and not putting all my bucks for a single sub...

after all, HT is a personal life style, just go with what u are comfortable and affordable.... and for the ride as well... personally, i prefer Porsche... :)

bill gates doesnt own a HT, he own a Cinema :p :p ..

how about IMAX 3D cinema with 12000 W uncompress digital surround sound... ;) ;)

craigsub

06-02-2005, 10:39 PM

You should see the fat whores were I live. For now and for a long time I will take a good HT/2CH system over a woman any day.

heh heh ... You are either too picky, or you need to get to $200 grand and move ... ;)

That and everything else aside what would you say is one of the best subwoofers on the market? Tell me and I will go out and buy it.

There is no one absolute best subwoofer. See the above italicized quote, get to $200k and try several ... :cool:

sarj04

04-23-2006, 01:32 PM

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I am new here and had to offer some input when I stumbled across this. I am the VERY satisfied (and admittedly biased by now) owner of a JBL Syn 2 system. However, I was not biased when I went through an extensive selection process. I heard a lot of systems and was as critical as possible of each.

From a pure subwoofing perspective (since that is the direction this discussion went in):
I auditioned a pair of SVS PB-12/ultra 2's thanks to a buddy of mine. At a local ht installer, I listened to a pair of DD-18's, a pair of ML descents, the Klipsch Ultra system, and a the def tech powered towers. That covered a pretty large range of sub types and prices.

I never took measurements and have no numbers to support my claim, but the JBL system surpassed the others without much effort. If it had not, I would have a pair of DD-18's in my HT right now instead. I listened to the same bass heavy explosive sequences on each system multiple times; nothing really compared to the synthesis.

My syn 2 is in a room that is slightly smaller than 24'x17'x9' (~3600sqft). The syn 2 is rated for rooms of up to 14,000 sqft...so it better sound pretty good in my HT. Like all of you, I am a bass freak. I wanted a piece of the 18' woofers in the s1s-ex subs or in an 1812 (never heard it). My ht installer (a consumate salesman who would have done anything to sell me extra equipment) actually convinced me to leave it be, saying it would be all but impossible to improve bass over the syn 2 in a room my size...he was actually concerned that the depth of the 18" subs would be more audible in neighboring rooms than the ht itself.

The end result is the best ht I have ever heard. There may be more powerful subs out there, but the syn 2 in my room is more than powerful enough to liquify my ear drums if necessary.

bandit

04-23-2006, 05:58 PM

Sarj

I hadn't seen this thread before either.... seems like subwoofers stir up passion. :) Looks like a fairly good JBL smashing here... but I still like some of their equipment. I don't have the elaborate system that you do but I do use a JBL 4645c THX sub for my system. It just sounds right to me, although pretty its not. (someday I'm going to design it into the room so its hidden)

Anyay - IMO - if you like what your using it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. ;)

Sheep

04-23-2006, 07:27 PM

AVtalk will be testing one of the JBL THX subs (4546 or something) this year.

I will post results when they are up.

SheepStar

craigsub

04-23-2006, 08:21 PM

AVtalk will be testing one of the JBL THX subs (4546 or something) this year.

I will post results when they are up.

SheepStar

And who knows, perhaps someday they will actually listen to a subwoofer, too. We can only hope. ;)

Sheep

04-24-2006, 02:45 AM

And who knows, perhaps someday they will actually listen to a subwoofer, too. We can only hope. ;)

Yeah, and they have to be blind, gagged, and have broken legs, just tobe safe. ;)

I take it you havent seen Uncle Erics system?

SheepStar

craigsub

04-24-2006, 07:48 AM

Yeah, and they have to be blind, gagged, and have broken legs, just tobe safe. ;)

I take it you havent seen Uncle Erics system?

SheepStar

I like Uncle Eric... He sells some excellent gear. How does that make listening sessions, properly done, invalid or not neccessary?

The thing guys like you better be wary of is this: if all you care about is graphs, speaker and subwoofer companies will respond in kind. They will build to the prettiest graph, and to heck with sound quality.

That is how the market works. Companies deliver what sells.

Eric does, in his own store, sell stuff he considers to sound the best. For example, I have seen many examples of people saying certain ported subwoofers out perform the Velo DD-18, based on the measurements which show the ported sub as playing louder.

I used to buy into that theory, until I blind tested a DD-18 against two of the ported subs, and the DD-18 walked all over the ported subs for clean, articulate bass.

Sheep

04-24-2006, 03:39 PM

I like Uncle Eric... He sells some excellent gear. How does that make listening sessions, properly done, invalid or not neccessary?

[snip]

Thank you for proving my point. Uncle Eric, a man who takes MANY measurements, cares about the sound.

SheepStar

craigsub

04-24-2006, 04:35 PM

Thank you for proving my point. Uncle Eric, a man who takes MANY measurements, cares about the sound.

SheepStar

Sheep, "Prove your point?" ... What point ? When did I say Eric did not care about sound ? By the way, Charley takes the measurements, not Eric. ;)

I have never said measurements are not important. I have said measurements without listening tests to go with them are worthless, and they are.

All you can tell about graphs is how loud the speaker is playing. That is it. A frequency response curve merely shows how loud the speaker is playing at any frequency. A max output graph shows the max a speaker will play at each frequency.

Unless you listen, nothing is established about the full performance.

But far too many guys post a graph, with statements like "Look at the Acme subwoofer, it played 100 dB @ 20 Hz." The problem with that is this: how does it sound at 40 Hz ? If we don't know that, all the graphs in the world mean nothing.

And Sheep, If you walked into Uncle Eric's store, do you think he would show you graphs ? Or do you think he would have you listen ?

Sheep

04-24-2006, 04:43 PM

You know, I'm not going to reply, its too easy.

I'm leaving it at this. Stop trolling around.

SheepStar

craigsub

04-24-2006, 04:49 PM

Sheep - "Trolling" ? You said Eric takes MANY measurements, and he doesn't. He is kind enough to lend equipment to the test, and has shown himself to be a pretty classy guy. But, factually speaking, he does not take the measurements. Yet that was the crux of how your "point" was proven.

If you cannot discuss without resorting to calling people "troll", perhaps you need to step back for a while.

Sheep

04-24-2006, 05:03 PM

And who knows, perhaps someday they will actually listen to a subwoofer, too. We can only hope.
Here you say they DON'T listen to subwoofers.

Eric does, in his own store, sell stuff he considers to sound the best. For example, I have seen many examples of people saying certain ported subwoofers out perform the Velo DD-18, based on the measurements which show the ported sub as playing louder.

And here is your contradiction.

Again, to easy. Then the fact that you said FR graphs are the only measurements.

Easy.

I think we all know who needs to step back for awhile.

SheepStar

craigsub

04-24-2006, 05:53 PM

Here you say they DON'T listen to subwoofers.

And here is your contradiction.

Again, to easy. Then the fact that you said FR graphs are the only measurements.

Easy.

I think we all know who needs to step back for awhile.

SheepStar

Sheep, Now think through this very carefully: Eric does not conduct the AVTalk tests. Charley conducts the tests. You thought your "point was proven" because, in your words, Eric "a man who takes MANY measurements, cares about sound", when it was Charley taking the measurements.

If you need help understanding the logic here, please ask. We will guide you through this difficult task. :)

The tests themselves are fine for putting together a series of graphs. It is the conclusions which are the problem. For example, on many occasions, people have used just the numbers from AVTalk to declare a "winner" between two subwoofers.

Now, if someone wants to say one subwoofer is louder than another after looking at these graphs, that is possible. However, louder and better are not necessarily the same thing.

And Sheep, I did not say that FR was the only measurement. Try sticking with facts, ok ? ;)

DarrenMSmith

01-27-2007, 11:28 AM

I am in the process of wiring for a Syn Three... I have been to 3 JBL Synthesis demos in the Phila/NJ area and each time I am completely blown away by the range and sheer impact of the material presented. I have even had an opportunity to listen to a Meridian system, which may have retailed for upwards of $150,000 for the speakers and electronics alone, whereas a Synthesis Three may be in the $40K range. Hands down the Syn blows 99.99% of all other systems completely out of the water, and at that price range I think it may actually be better than 100% of all systems with a $40k retail price.

In my personal opinion it is due the fact that all of the components are completely matched and their EQ of the room is 2nd to none. I can't wait to listen to my finished product!!!