Yell at HawKe for Ditching the Mac Platform

[Audioholics]

I left the Mac scene around 2001 for the world of build-it-yourself PCs that cost less than $500 – but I cannot get myself to ditch the Mac for several reasons. As the Editor of the largest home theater review website I have to be sure that our pages, articles and designs look good on both platforms. I also admit that I like venturing into the world of Mac OS X from time to time for a refreshing (but fortunately no longer superior) alternative to the Windows world. The only way to make this transition is via physically moving from one PC to another – or by employing a KVM (keyboard, video & mouse) switch.

Gefen makes one of the best I've seen, with USB support, full cross-platform capability and DVI support. It even includes audio switching so that your permier computer speakers will take input from whichever system is active. If you've ever been interested in connecting two computers with a single keyboard, mouse and monitor - then this review is for you.

Read About the Gefen USB Switcher...

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

One word: Security.

Every time another Windows virus/worm/Trojan horse/spyware/exploit gets everyone in a tizzy, we Mac users just smile smugly.

And it isn't just because of the old canard that virus writers don't want to bother with a platform that has a single-digit share of the installed base. Both the old Mac OS and the current Unix-based OS X are reputedly more difficult to write viruses for. In Mac OS X, no executable of any kind, from any source, can be installed without an administrator's password (a dialog box pops up). And ports that are left open by default in Windows, thus compromising the security of the individual PC, are closed by default in Mac OS X.

Admittedly, I think we are vulnerable to Word macro viruses. But whose fault is that, hmmm??

Anecdote: A guy I used to work with, a longtime Windows user, bought one of the early iBooks and installed Virtual PC on it. A couple of weeks later he told me, "I'm so pissed off! Windows is more stable and easier to fix on the Mac than on my Intel box!" Granted, this was the days of Windows 98.

 

[Westrock2000]

One word: Security.

Every time another Windows virus/worm/Trojan horse/spyware/exploit gets everyone in a tizzy, we Mac users just smile smugly.

And it isn't just because of the old canard that virus writers don't want to bother with a platform that has a single-digit share of the installed base. Both the old Mac OS and the current Unix-based OS X are reputedly more difficult to write viruses for. In Mac OS X, no executable of any kind, from any source, can be installed without an administrator's password (a dialog box pops up). And ports that are left open by default in Windows, thus compromising the security of the individual PC, are closed by default in Mac OS X.

This is because A; the consumer wants crazy interactivity and B; Microsoft has practically been forced to release it codes.

However I will point this out, If don't install a NIC or a Modem, the chances of your computer getting anything are pretty dismal.

I say its poeples fault. They thought it was cool that Microsoft was being sued, and they want all these features. Consumers brought it upon themselves.

I use Windows at home and Red Hat and Solaris at work. I like both, as they each have their own strengths and weaknesses. I've never used Apples other than at school, and I'll admit that is not the most current place to experience Apples.

I have also never had a virus on any computer I use. Its just about being smart.

(Although I have learned what the registry does a couple times )

 

[Westrock2000]

One word: Security.


And it isn't just because of the old canard that virus writers don't want to bother with a platform that has a single-digit share of the installed base.

And to be honest, it is. It's not kids screwing around anymore. Its a competition. And nothing can draw numbers or media attention like Windows platforms.

Remember Apple is owned by Microsoft, so I'm pretty sure the same design philosophies are shared between the OS. So saying its just made better, probably won't hold.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Hawke, you can use any OS you want, but to call windows superior is nonsense. Panther is so far ahead of anything windows was and is, it's not funny. One word for you, Expose' Every windows user I have shown it to, drools over it. I challenge you to take an 800mhz pc anything, with 1gb of ram and launch every program you have then try and get some work done, While ripping and burning cd's and encoding DVD in the background. Not gonna happen with any version of windows. It's multi-tasking ability sucks. Light years behind OS X. If you are going to throw things out there like that you better be prepared to back it up, and don't give me that line about there are more games and more software for windows. There are more games for PS2 and Nintendo and thats where games should be played. Also, once you remove the junk software there really are not that many more titles for windows, and now with OS X being unix in the core, any linux and unix program can be recompiled to run on X under Xwindows or written to run natively. Can windows do that? Tiger is just around the corner and windows will be playing catch up for a long time. And I am not a mac Zealot, I also own a PC that is in the closet running win 2000 and acting as a gateway for my Direcway connection. Soon to be replaced with the DW6000 though. I also am in tech support and support retail POS systems running in a small lan environment using windows NT, 2000, and XP, I also aid in mac support locally as well as PC support.

 

[Audioholics]

Hawke, you can use any OS you want, but to call windows superior is nonsense.

I didn't call Windows Superior. I merely stated that Mac OS was no longer superior as in the days of Windows 95 and 98. Back then you could argue that Windows was a half-baked solution that wasn't yet out of Beta.

It's clearly subjective as there's no governing body handing out superior status to either OS. My point was just that XP is so useable and refined now that "the Mac experience" has lost much of its advantage (as you can see by the drop in marketshare.)

I won't banter much, but the virus issue is hardly worth the extra $1500*. If you are smart enough to install a $40 virus program (many are free and just as effective) and update WindowsXP periodically, you will never get a virus on a PC. I haven't, and my entire working life has been spent on a PC since as long as I can remember.

*I don't really want to argue about all the stuff Mac gives you for your extra money like cool software, Firewire, dual processors and such. While this is true, most people just take pictures, check email and write Word docs which is why Mac's marketshare (IMHO) is dwindling to mostly power users and enthusiasts.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Couple of other things, you keep comparing a home built pc to a PowermacG5. Most people do not build their own PC and even if you did you could not come close to a PowermacG5 for $500. This is as close as you are going to get to a top of the line Mac. Take note of the price and that is not a dual a dual is more. The PowermacG5 is very competitive in it's market. Price used to be a factor with macs, but not any more. If you start adding up all the great software you get, a PC price adds up real quick. Just try finding a replacement for Garage Band for less that a few hundred bucks. And one last thing, Final Cut Pro and Express, by far one of the best if not the best Pro and Pro-sumer video editing programs available and only on the Mac platform. And speaking of market share, shall we discuss the iPod's market share, or would you rather not go there

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

Remember Apple is owned by Microsoft, so I'm pretty sure the same design philosophies are shared between the OS. So saying its just made better, probably won't hold.

That would be quite a surprise to Apple's stockholders! You may be referencing the investment Microsoft made in Apple some years back when Apple's demise seemed likely; but even then the amount Microsoft put in was a spit in the bucket compared to Apple's market valuation and assets. In short, they did not buy Apple. It was part cash infusion, part publicity. Probably to defuse antitrust talk in part.

Fair minded person that I am, I am willing to grant that nowadays one's OS preference is much like one's speaker preference - as much a matter of taste and opinion as logic.

Anyway, nothing like a religious OS war to get the boys riled up! I have heard that XP is quite good but not being in the corporate world I haven't used a Wintel box in a few years.

The same friend I spoke of earlier also had this to say about the two platforms: "They both suck. They just suck in different ways."

And of course the *nix guys all spit in our general direction, anyway (perhaps less so in the case of OS X which is based on BSD Unix). Though I once met an honest-to-God former Multics (look it up) user who spit in everyone's general direction.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Oh yeah Rip, you just reminded me, OS X is the number one Unix distribution

 

[Audioholics]

New Dimension 8400 Desktop $769

Pentium 4 530 3Ghz/1MB Cache, 512MB DDR2-400/40GB Serial ATA HD, Free 48x CD and 48x CDRW, 128MB ATI Radeon X300SE PCI Express Video card, Gigabit Ethernet, 5.1 audio, 6 months ISP, XP Home $719 shipped free.

Start here, select Featured systems under 8400, Customize it on leftmost config, Select Special Dual Drives 48x CD + Free 48x CDRW.

Highly recommend you select: 512MB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x256M) +$10 as this memory is a lot faster.

Won't smoke a PowerMacG5, but show me a comparable computer from Apple for $800? Serial ATA? PCI Express? Gigabit Ethernet? 3GHz processor? 512MB DDR2-533 RAM? for under $800? This is why people go PC - not because PCs are better. They are just so much cheaper you can't help but do a double-take.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Hawke, you can not just look at the first price Dell shows, that is without a monitor. I just configured that Dell as close as I could to an eMac. Both with DVD burner, both with 512 mb ram, both with comparable software, Both with firewire, an option on the dell, the cheapest 17in monitor Dell has, and Final price for the Dell was, are you ready for this, $1497.00 and for the Mac, hang on, $1074.00. The Dell is in no way a better deal and still does not give you good digital movie editing software.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Can you get a really cheap mac at all? Like something in the sub-$500 range? Can you build your own Mac yourself at home? Most of the sites I've bought computer parts at don't sell any Mac stuff except memory, and if there's a cheap pre-built one I've not seen it.

I realize guys that like their Apples are pretty touchy about it, and I don't mean to offend them, but I doubt I could get by with a Mac. First is price- given that the parts are readily available (and I have some parts lying around) I'll likely build another PC before long. For about $400 (+I have a spare case, sink/fan, cables & PSU, as well as a couple optical drives) I can build a P4/2.8-3.0. The computer I'm typing this one is a 2.8 * Celeron and I bought it with monitor for $450. To be fair, I've upgraded it in many ways, but that's the rub- I can afford to work with a Pentium. For the guy who can "roll his own" (and it's not difficult to build a PC), a potent machine can be had for under $1k.

That said, if it's possible to buy the parts (proc, mobo, graphics card, etc) to build a Mac on the cheap, I'd be interested in a link, if you have one. I do plan to build a 2nd PC, and then configure the slowest one as an internet-only PC.

I will say that I've been a Windows-complainer most of my computing life, but I really like XP. On my PC it's very stable, and just a joy to use. But, and it's a big "but", the security is pathetic. I have a very complete suite of the best security software and I keep all definitions up to date religiously, but I've still had adware/virus problems, and that's behind a router too! I've finally given Internet Explorer the boot in favor of Firefox, so hopefully that'll help. Hawke, I'd say if you've never had a virus or spyware problem, you're either blessed with godlike computer knowledge or astonishing luck.

 

[Audioholics]

Hawke, I'd say if you've never had a virus or spyware problem, you're either blessed with godlike computer knowledge or astonishing luck.

Really, I just run the software that keeps it off... Norton Antivirus and Adaware. And another biggie is letting Windows keep itself updated with critical updates. Oh, and I disable the Preview Pane in Outlook for my email inbox (so no email vireuses can autorun on me). If you do those things on a PC you will probabaly never get a virus.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Rob, you can't build a mac per say, you can upgrade certain models. If you found a good deal on a blue and white Gee3 or an early Gee4 you could turn those into a pretty powerful video editing machine. PowerLogix, Sonnet and other World computing offer a number of upgrades for older hardware. It is also true you get more mileage from a mac, most people don't upgrade every year unless they are some high-end video shop that just needs the horsepower. I upgraded my processor from a 466 Gee4 to an 800, added a gig and half of ram, DVD burner, 4 Drives, and I am going to get a new video card soon. So my Gee4 is not stock by any stretch. I have a blue and white Gee3 that is in my boys room. It is a 350mhz. I am going to get a 1.2 Ghz Gee3, new video card, and add 1gig of ram. It will then just as fast or faster than any 2.5ghz intel machine. All that will be about $325

How come the forum will not let you place the letter Gee by itself? It turns it into an *

 

[Rob Babcock]

I've been told by some musicians that the Mac is the way to go, but I have no use for any video editing software nor any "Garage Band" software. And unfortunately, there are a few peices of software that I absolutely must have that have no Mac equivalent. Perhaps a "virtual PC" could be run on the Mac, but that begs the question- why would I spend more on $ a Mac to try to do what a very cheap PC could do? No indictment of Apple, it's just that there's a couple deal-breakers, software wise, that I wouldn't even need a PC without!

What I've been considering, though, is to set up a cheapo machine as my E-mail, bill paying & web browsing PC and going with Linux or something as an OS. It wouldn't matter if it didn't run a lot of software- I'd have a 2nd, more hi-po PC for stuff like Eximius DVD+Audio, Nero 6, Surething, DVD Decrypter, etc. I'd rarely burn anything or do any heavy lifting on the internet machine- it's main requirement would be security. I suspect that going to Linspire or something like that & using Firefox would cut my chances of security issues down to an infinitesimally small level. Security wouldn't be a big issue for my He-Man PC because I in all likelihood wouldn't connect it to the internet except to register software/get updates & bug fixes for current apps.

 

[Rob Babcock]

BTW, I read a very sobering comparison of AVs; in the compro I read, Norton finished just below the middle of the pack as far as how many viruses it caught. In one test, it recognized just 4 out of 7 viruses it was attacked with. I myself have had to use Panda's online AV to remove really iritating things that Norton couldn't do anthing about. I finally deleted Norton from my machine in favor of BitDefender- it seems to do a much better job.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

What software apps do you have to have? There is most always a mac replacement and a lot of times it is a better written app. If you are a musician, than Garage Band is a great app. The only thing I have not been able to find for mac is someway to access an access database. SQL, not an issue, but no access access. It does not sound like you would need a mac for anything special, if you found a good deal them get it and try out OS X, you may never go back. If you are looking for a laptop than a mac is a great choice.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Oh yeah I almos forgot, Did I mention OS X There is a coolness factor that must be accounted for

 

[Rob Babcock]

The one absolute dealbreaker for me is Eximius' DVD+Audio software. It takes 16 bit PCM/wav. files and using a proprietary interpolation-esque upsampler, converts them to 24/96 files & burns them to DVD-R. The resulting discs sound better (sometimes shockingly better) than the original CD. They also sound better than [reputedly] any hardware upsampler. I know of no other software equal to this. If you know of something please give me a link. Once you've heard what it can do, you'd be hardpressed to ever live without it.

At any rate, that arguement is a bit like telling someone you've created Doc Oc arms and you want to affix them and amputate their arms & legs! The new apendages will be better, you just have to learn to use them! I'm not trying to unneccessarily bust you chops, but that's the rub- most of us don't want to ditch every peice of software we like and buy/learn something new. Take Nero6; I really really love Nero, and it offers a huge amout of capabilities. So much so that it's taken me several versions and a couple years to get it all figured out, and I still don't know how to use everything. Even if Mac has something as good, I'd still have to learn how to use all the features and how to optimally use it. And what of SureThing? I don't think they make a Mac version (could be wrong)- I have many hours of time invested and hundreds of templates & tiles I've created. Not to mention it has built in support for my Epson CD printer. And I can't live without my CD printer!

I'm not knockin' Mac, but I really can't afford to buy a "serious" Mac, nor a serious PC for that matter. But I can afford to build a serious PC. As far as I know, you can't buy parts & build your own mac at all (again, I could be misinformed).

The one thing I have considered, based on some discussions at Audiocircle.com, is buying a used *3/*4/Cube to use as a Web computer (for surfing, billpaying, etc). There the security would be a comfort, and I wouldn't need to spend much. I could keep a Windows machine for "heavy lifting" and running the specific can't-live-without apps like Eximius DVD+Audio. If it'd work, I'd connect 'em both to one key/mouse/monitor with a KVM. That would give me bulletproof security for the net, and let me have my Windows machine disconnected from the internet. That would be very nice for security & privacy reasons (and because some of the software I employ legally now could conceivably be illegal soon. And legislation has been proposed to allow Big Brother to root around in your computer via a net connection and remove things they deem in violation of whatever laws the Hollywood & The Big Five manage to ram thru).

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Rob if you have a lot of software then of course it would not make any sense to ditch it all and get a new platform, however, if you were looking for another toy and you got a good deal on a mac, then it might be a good idea to get acquainted with OS X. I am positive there is software like you described I will look into it. There are some very high-level audio software titles available to the mac, they are used very heavily in the audio world. Just go to Apples site and read about Core Audio This is just one of the things that sets OS X apart from Win XP and why the audio world has embraced the Mac and OS X. Take a look at This Program is this the kind of stuff you are looking for. This is one of many available to OS X.