Yamaha YPAO effectiveness

M

mayurnk

Audiophyte
Hello,
I have a 9 year old Yamaha RX-V473 receiver and I always wonder what parameters does the YPAO set. I imagine it would adjust the speaker levels, distances and equalizers (?) but I like to do that manually. Other than that, do I miss something critical that YPAO can do that I cannot do manually?

Another question I have is, how do I change the crossover frequency for my speakers on my yamaha, I don't see an option apart from setting up the individual speaker equalizers.

Thanks in advance, Any help is appreciated.
Maxx
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Hello,
I have a 9 year old Yamaha RX-V473 receiver and I always wonder what parameters does the YPAO set. I imagine it would adjust the speaker levels, distances and equalizers (?) but I like to do that manually. Other than that, do I miss something critical that YPAO can do that I cannot do manually?

Another question I have is, how do I change the crossover frequency for my speakers on my yamaha, I don't see an option apart from setting up the individual speaker equalizers.

Thanks in advance, Any help is appreciated.
Maxx
Have you checked the manual?
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
I actually thought YPAO did a decent job at the basics like you mentioned. Now that I have Denon and Audyssey it's much better. YPAO is ok though. I used YPAO flat.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
If anything I'd trust the distances the most. They're not always gonna line up with the measured distance. Especially subwoofers. It's using distance to keep everything time aligned. It's more about milliseconds than it is feet n inches. My avr adds a couple of feet to my subs to make up for additional processing.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes, it just says it will do the room correction without mentioning how exactly.
What's nice about YPAO that I've seen is that it's tweakable via the PEQ (on top of what YPAO does). Basics are as you mention, it's been combined with a setup routine to establish basic delays and levels and apply eq. Not sure what the eq goals are particularly, tho. I'd imagine flat is as that describes, perhaps there's one that softens up the highest frequencies like Audyssey Reference mode does. I'd use YPAO's loudness contour version, think it's called YPAO Volume.
 
E

EBN

Audioholic
RX-V473 has the lowest version which doesnt do much of anything. Starting from 600 serie YPAO R.S.C is step up and has those Flat, Natural, Front curves which are missing from the lowest version.

The Difference between YPAO and YPAO R.S.C
Basic YPAO will do the following:

  1. Measure and set speaker delays (called – inaccurately – distance)
  2. Measure and set speaker levels / volume
  3. Measure the frequency response of your speakers and use a parametric equaliser (PEQ) to flatten the frequency response of the speakers/room in the frequency domain only (what it is doing really is match the timbre of the speakers to each other)
YPAO R.S.C (R.S.C. stands for Reflected Sound Control) is more advanced. It actually has TWO sets of filters:

  1. It will measure the impulse response of the main speakers (not the subwoofer even if the model has sub EQ) AND will create filters that will modulate BOTH the phase and the frequency of the response. This is to allow for removing the first reflection of the speakers in the room and it allows YPAO to tackle both the dips and the peaks in the frequency response. YPAO basic will only be able to tackle the peaks effectively and do a hit or miss with the dips. This is true of any type of parametric EQ. These filters are not actually displayed on the screen and are not editable.
  2. The second set of filters are only in the frequency-domain with a minimum phase: these are the PEQ filters that are used in the YPAO basic equalisation. But here, more broad filters can be used since the main / most difficult issues in frequency response have been corrected.



 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Measure and set speaker delays (called – inaccurately – distance)
I think this is worth pointing out. I keep seeing folks post that they prefer setting the "distances" themselves because of discrepancies between the settings and measured distance. As you point out, that is an inaccurate way to look at it. Those distances are for delay, not accuracy when measured with a ruler.
 
H

Huey645

Audioholic
I think this is worth pointing out. I keep seeing folks post that they prefer setting the "distances" themselves because of discrepancies between the settings and measured distance. As you point out, that is an inaccurate way to look at it. Those distances are for delay, not accuracy when measured with a ruler.
For everything but the mains, I agree, let YPAO set the distances. But if you have a "sweet spot" setup for 2 channel listening, you will not want the speaker distances to be anything but identical to each other. I couldn't figure out why my 2 channel listening was so off after running YPAO, but after making the mains the same distance to the listening position, it was all good.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
For everything but the mains, I agree, let YPAO set the distances. But if you have a "sweet spot" setup for 2 channel listening, you will not want the speaker distances to be anything but identical to each other. I couldn't figure out why my 2 channel listening was so off after running YPAO, but after making the mains the same distance to the listening position, it was all good.
It's really room dependant, and usually the biggest discrepancy is the subwoofer. If your mains were fairly close to begin with then you made them the same I doubt it'd be very audible one way or the other. But again, different rooms have different reflections and dimensions so it varies. I know Audyssey is usually spot on for me. I sit the same distance from both mains and it's reflected in the settings.
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
So if after running YPAO it shows my main speakers as 19 feet away when they really aren't I should not manually change that?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
So if after running YPAO it shows my main speakers as 19 feet away when they really aren't I should not manually change that?
How far off is it from what you measured? Anything sound off? Like the stage, imaging or anything? If it's really out of whack it could be something was off when you ran set up. I wouldn't quibble over it too much if it's pretty close.
 
H

Huey645

Audioholic
It's really room dependant, and usually the biggest discrepancy is the subwoofer. If your mains were fairly close to begin with then you made them the same I doubt it'd be very audible one way or the other. But again, different rooms have different reflections and dimensions so it varies. I know Audyssey is usually spot on for me. I sit the same distance from both mains and it's reflected in the settings.
I do have wall treatments, purchased from GIK acoustics, at the first order reflection points for the front speakers, so reflections aren't a big issue. I know if I change the setting on one of the speakers even by a foot, the whole soundstage collapses and doesn't sound right will sitting in the sweet spot.
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
How far off is it from what you measured? Anything sound off? Like the stage, imaging or anything? If it's really out of whack it could be something was off when you ran set up. I wouldn't quibble over it too much if it's pretty close.
I removed a few obstacles and reran YPAO, now it's closer to "reality" as far as distance goes! Not ready or desiring to rearrange the furniture to get the 'perfect' result.
 
A

Am_P

Audioholic
RX-V473 has the lowest version which doesnt do much of anything. Starting from 600 serie YPAO R.S.C is step up and has those Flat, Natural, Front curves which are missing from the lowest version.

The Difference between YPAO and YPAO R.S.C
Basic YPAO will do the following:

  1. Measure and set speaker delays (called – inaccurately – distance)
  2. Measure and set speaker levels / volume
  3. Measure the frequency response of your speakers and use a parametric equaliser (PEQ) to flatten the frequency response of the speakers/room in the frequency domain only (what it is doing really is match the timbre of the speakers to each other)
YPAO R.S.C (R.S.C. stands for Reflected Sound Control) is more advanced. It actually has TWO sets of filters:

  1. It will measure the impulse response of the main speakers (not the subwoofer even if the model has sub EQ) AND will create filters that will modulate BOTH the phase and the frequency of the response. This is to allow for removing the first reflection of the speakers in the room and it allows YPAO to tackle both the dips and the peaks in the frequency response. YPAO basic will only be able to tackle the peaks effectively and do a hit or miss with the dips. This is true of any type of parametric EQ. These filters are not actually displayed on the screen and are not editable.
  2. The second set of filters are only in the frequency-domain with a minimum phase: these are the PEQ filters that are used in the YPAO basic equalisation. But here, more broad filters can be used since the main / most difficult issues in frequency response have been corrected.



I bet you 98% of the guys here who claim that YPAO is somehow inferior to whatever the heck they've got don't know this. In fact, I think it's a good idea that they blackboxed the RSC filters and didn't let every knob go to town with it.
 
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