Yamaha RXV2400/Paradigm/Denon DVD-2200 Frustration

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Hi. I am frustrated to no end.

History:
Back in '97 I purchased my home theatre system with a Yamaha RXV2092 and Paradigm speakers (Monitor 7 Fronts, CC-350 Center, etc..). Last year at a party the Yamaha amp kicked off and would not power up. It felt hot but was not in an enclosed area. I had it checked out and the parts were going to cost &gt;$160 + labor. Since the amp was several years old I decided to upgrade rather than putting money into an older unit.

My current dilemma:
Right before Thanksgiving I bought a new RXV2400 Amp to replace the old one. I also bought a new Denon DVD-2200 player. I brought them home and within minutes of watching a DVD the amp would kick off (power shut-down). It would do it with loud noises and/or high volume. The dealer I bought it from said my speakers or speaker wires were doing it.

I bought new monster cables for my fronts and center ch. for performance and to eliminate those wires as an issue. The wires to my rear and rear effects are routed internal to the walls.

So I unplugged all of my speakers and methodically plugged them in one at a time to find the culprit. In the end my left Front Monitor 7 AND the Center CC-350 would shut the amp down. I plugged each them into other speaker outputs on the amp to verify and indeed they were the issue.

So I had them sent to service through the same dealer I purchased the amp from.

I received them back 3 weeks later after they replaced the driver in both and also the crossover in the Monitor 7 (~$230 in repairs). I plugged them back up and AGAIN, within 5 minutes of watching a DVD to test (The Matrix) the amp tripped again! I was pissed. They didn't fix the speakers so what did I pay for?

I unplugged again only the 2 speakers they repaired with no problem then plugged the repaired speakers in one at a time. This time only the Center CC-350 shut the amp down. So they didn't fix the CC-350 right? Wrong. I returned the CC-350 again for Service.

I get a call from the Service tech. yesterday and he tells me the Tweeter is fried. The very same tweeter he replaced the 1st time. So he tells me either my kids did something crazy cranking up the volume or something is wrong with my amp. I explained to him that my kids have not nor will touch my stereo (they're only 6 &amp; 9) and how I personally viewed these failures when connecting the system up brand new.

So he tells me I need to bring the amp in for test and possible repair since it seems to be the culprit (this was the service tech but he told me I need to talk to the sales guy to know how they will handle this under warranty).

Finally, I am able to connect the Front Monitor 7 into the Center Ch. of the amp and it doesn't trip the amp off. It would seem if the amp was the problem it would fry the Monitor 7 too wouldn't it? It would also seem that it would have re-fried both of the speakers which were repaired again when I reconnected them not just the Center channel.

My questions:
1. Has anybody had any similar issues like this before or anybody with any expertise/insight as to what could be going on?

2. Could the Denon DVD-2200 player in any way be involved since it's also new? It is connected to the amp via coax. Also, the 2nd time my speaker failed I retested using a CD with the same effect but it was AFTER the DVD player had already tripped the amp off.

3. Anybody have any insight as to what I'm faced with on warranty or return? If the amp is the problem, I have now have &gt;$260 of MY money for speaker repairs caused by it. I also do not want to have to send my brand new amp in when I have had 2 months and haven't been able to utilize it. I'd like to have my guns in a row before I go to the dealer.

Right now I am thoroughly pissed at Yamaha assuming their amp did this after the first amp failed (possibly mis-directed anger?). If the receiver ends up being the culprit I would return the Yamaha and exchange it for a different comparable model if I could. If they are the problem then this is 2 strikes for them with me and I'll never buy their equipment again.

Thanks for bearing with me and any advice anyone out there may have.</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>Have you read this from the Yamaha website?

Why does my unit shut off at 1/4 volume or less?

Yamaha receivers have a built in computerized protection circuit, which will activate in certain over-current conditions. This means that the unit is drawing too much current through the amplifier or power supply, and the built in computer turns the receiver off. This is designed to protect your receiver and speaker systems. There can be several different reasons that the receiver will shut off prematurely. In many cases, premature shutoff of your unit can be caused by a problem with the speaker wiring between the receiver and speakers. A single strand of wire in the wrong place (causing a short circuit condition) will cause the unit to shut off at anything but very low volume levels. To see if this might be the problem, please follow the simple troubleshooting steps outlined below:

Disconnect all of the speaker wires from the back of the receiver.
Turn the receiver on, and turn the volume control up to about half way. * If the receiver stays on, please go to Step 3. * If the receiver shuts off right away, the unit will require service. Please consult with your dealer for further assistance.
Carefully inspect all of the speaker wiring and the connections at the back of each speaker. Remove and reconnect the wiring at the back of each speaker if necessary.
Re-connect the main speakers only, and test the system. If operation appears normal, turn the power off and re-connect the surround speakers. If it shuts down prematurely, you should have your main speaker system checked.
Test the system after the surround speakers have been re-connected. If operation appears normal, turn off the power and re-connect the center speaker. If it shuts down prematurely, you should have your surround speakers checked.
Test the system after the center channel speaker has been re-connected. If operation is normal, you have located and fixed the over-current condition. If the receiver shuts off prematurely, you should have the center channel speaker checked.
Other problems which might cause premature shut off can include using speakers with an impedance of less than 4 ohms, an internal problem with the receiver, or a problem with a source component.</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>Further to my quote from Yamaha, as you have already done what Yamaha suggest it would indicate the problem is with the DVD player.</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>PSS

Also note that if the DVD player's lazer is not current protected damage to the media (the DVD disk ) can cause an output surge that could be the spike you are hetting.</font>

 

[aarond]

<font color='#000000'>It sounds more like that the repair of the cc-350 was not done correctly, if you can hook up the monitor 7 with no problem. Try hooking up a cheap speaker to the center and playing the Matrix again if every thing works OK the repair of the cc-350 was most likely the problem. You probably fried the tweeters at the party which in turn damaged the amp. Now you need a properly functioning center speaker and you should be good to go</font>

 

[jeffsg4mac]

<font color='#000000'>In all my years of doing speaker repairs and building my own and custom stuff, I have never, I repeat never seen a speaker cause an amp to shut down unless I was running less than 4 ohms at very loud levels or crossed the speaker leads. I have seen a lot of amps go bad, especially of they have mechanical relays, older NAD's were famous for bad relays. I would bet anything you have something wrong with the amp. When a speaker goes bad the voice coil either starts rubbing and you will hear distortion or it will simply just burn out and stop working all together. I have fried many tweeters and froze up a few woofers too and never have they caused an amp to shut down.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Thanks for the feedback folks. I spoke to the dealer and at his suggestion he told me to bring in the amp and he will replace it with a new one OR another brand of my choice. I hope to finally put this issue to bed so I can enjoy my new system that I tried to set up 2 months ago.

Based on this I am considering a Denon AVR-3803 instead of the 2400. At the time I was looking the dealer told me he couldn't recommend one versus the other and it was a matter of preference. Any suggestions are welcome.

When the 2092 died I thought it simply had a component failure. When my current problem with the 2400 1st started and the diagnosis pointed to the speakers, I then thought the speakers had been what originally fried my 2092. Now with what the speaker tech. told me last week I am clueless so only want to eliminate ALL variables involved so I don't fry the speaker again.

I have had some tell me obviously the speaker is what fried my 2092 and now causing my 2400 shut-down problems (this would seem logical). However, I have had some tell me the 2092 could have fried the speakers which in turn caused the 2092 to go south. Nobody can seem to direct me to which ocurred first and it seems both could be plausible possibilities.

What confuses me now is if the amp wads the problem, why doesn't it fry my Front speaker which I have plugged into the Center channel of the amp.

I purchased an optical cable to replace the coax which connected the new Denon DVD-2200 to the amp to remove another variable. With replacing the amp, the only other variable will be the Denon DVD player itself.

Is it at all possible the DVD player could be at play? Seems a stretch.

Again, all I want is to is put this behind me to finally get back up and running. When I go to the store to pick my center channel speaker back up I intend to have them hook it up to another Receiver in the store and crank it up to assure the speaker itself is not faulty before taking it home.

The tech. I talked to told me they checked out the crossover in the Center speaker and it's fine. I appreciate the feedback and will keep you posted on my progress.</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>Yes it IS possible the DVD player is the problem. See my previous post on this where I said I thought it WAS the DVD player simply because the combinations you have tried seem to illiminate everything elses. Like Shirlock Holmes says, &quot;once you illiminate the probable, no matter how unlikely, it must be the inprobable.&quot;

And keep the RX-V2400.</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#000080'>I'd keep the RX-V2400 as well.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>I have years of experience with Yamaha, and never once had the problem you mention. I just bought the Yamaha RXV2400 and think it's the best I've ever used at the price. (I'm an idiot with 4 home theater systems in my house).

I'd assume something is wrong with your DVD player. I once used a 20 year old pair of polks with my old Yamaha 5460, wired wrong by mistake and cranked way up to the point where the Tweeters were about to blow, and nothing cut off.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Well Ricky, anything is possible when it comes to component failure. I just bought a 2400 and am having the same shutdown issues. I have not yet tried redoing all my speaker connections but from visual inspection there are no bare wires in ANY location where they could contact the case or another wire, or anything other than the binding posts/clamps themselves. So there is something wrong with my Yamaha. The old receiver it is repalcing works just fine with all of the connected loads.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Rob,

WOW! So you're having similar shut-down problems too??! Seems like it may be more than a coincidence but this is the first I've heard of any confirmation from anybody else.

Everybody seems to think I'm an idiot and that my speakers have been the problem all along. I do claim some ignorance in my electronic savy and have learned a lot on this. The speaker tech had nothing but accolades about Paradigm speakers and their quality in that he rearely has any come in for service...especially for crossovers to be replaced. That being said, I'm not ready to write Yamaha off yet.I originally thought the speakers HAD to be the issue but now I'm just not sure so being conservative I plan to eliminate potential possibilities.

When I finally get my center channel speaker back next week I plan to have the dealer hook it up in the store and verify the speaker repair they performed actually solved the problem. I do not intend to connect the center channel speaker back up to the current suspect 2400 for fear of blowing it again and costing me another month of repair, not to mention service $$.

The dealer offered to swap the 2400 out for a new one or another brand if I want. The problem is he doesn't have any 2400's in stock and trying to get one. I am looking at all of my options with possible other &nbsp;brands in the same price range as the 2400 but because I am happy with the Yamaha sound and it's match to my Paradigm speakers, I am a little reluctant to jump ship to another brand.

I am considering it though. It has been over 2 months since I bought the new RXV-2400 and Denon DVD-2200 and I haven't been able to utilize them at all really because my speakers have been in the shop on and off ever since I hooked everything up in Nov. '03.

I'm open for any advice anybody out there may have. I know brands can be totally a matter of preference as we are individuals in what our ears like. Thanks.</font>

 

[aarond]

<font color='#000000'>Here is what yamaha has to say about it

In addition, do not turn your volume control further than the halfway point. If you are doing this, you run the risk of damaging your amplifier or speaker system. (See Why Do I Keep Blowing Tweeters/Midranges, And How Do I Prevent This From Reoccurring?).

If the level of sound is not high enough for you when the volume control is at the halfway mark, then we recommend that you obtain a larger power amplifier. If you are going to evaluate the purchase of a larger power amplifier, you should choose one that has about double the power of the amp you are currently using. And be sure that your speaker system is capable of handling the power of the amplifier you are considering</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>I find this somewhat bazzar (if not disturbing).

I don't recall where I was in the % of volume I was at when the amp shut off but I would think that the volume required to destroy my Paradigms would be at a level somewhat uncomfortable. I know it was nowhere near a level that I would have called excessive.

Can I get someone out there with a 2400 to put the Matrix in and crank it up and see if it blows your speakers? jk...

Again, I wasn't 2 minutes into the movie when the amp shut down and the speakers were fried and the volume was not blasting or anything.

I am going to test this theory out in the store. I have had them crank it up pretty loud when I've been there testing equipment...much louder than I typically do at home...and never seen any issues. I am going to test the waters but this still seems fishy.

I should also add, when I was testing to identify which speakers were defective I cranked it up VERY LOUD. I was able to repeatedly identify which speakers were shutting the amp down and cross checked them with other speakers and it didn't fry the other speakers. Things still point to a speaker/speaker repair possible issue as the initial problem but the repair tesh is adamant that the crossover and all was fine. I do realize they probably wouldn't admit to fault in this.

I am removing all variables that could be causing this...not about to take the chance of hooking this amp up to my speakers again and will have the dealer test the center channel speaker in the store when I pick it up before taking it home. Eventually I'll get to the bottom of this.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Last night when I got home I did some additionally troubleshooting. Without any speakers connected I left them amp on and walked away (per suggestion from a Yamaha tech). I came back an hour later and it was off and sure enough when turning it back on it reported a speaker wiring issue. The unit is only three days old. It is going back today and being replaced with a B&amp;K (most likely). I am tired of this foolishness. I don't have the time to risk getting yet another POS Yamaha.</font>

 

[rottox]

<font color='#000000'>BTW... sorry for all the typos in my last post. I am not fully awake yet. I am up early so I can bring the Yamaha back to my dealer as soon as they open.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Rob,

When you say you left the amp on...did you have media (CD, DVD, etc) playing with no speakers connected or just powered up with no active inputs?

Thx.</font>

 

[rottox]

<font color='#000000'>I had no equipment sending input to the receiver but I did leave the interconnect cables (RCA, S-Video, Optical, etc)connected.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I'm happy to answer ;-) Right now I am working on setting up the B&amp;K RVS507 that I just bought. It was three times the price but hoepfully is worth it. The sucker is heavy too... 55 pounds!</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>In the spirit of commiseration, I too am having the same shut-down problems with the 2400. It was cutting off at a volume level as low as -15db after 30 minutes of play. Following Yamaha's instructions, I disconnected all speakers and cranked the volume all the way up and it did not shut off, but I only left it cranked for a few minutes. I replaced my old Infinity speakers with the neighbors bookshelf speakers and the amp has yet to blow. Although I've cranked it to +5db, I'm a bit uncomfortable to crank it much higher because I don't want to buy him new speakers, too. But so far it's worked. I've just ordered a full set of axioms, which should serve as the acid test.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>I have had my 2400 for about a month now. &nbsp;However, I can not identify with you guys towards any of the reported problems ya'll are experiencing. &nbsp;There are too many variables involved with an entire HT setup for most of us to correctly identify the weak link(s) in your systems. &nbsp;I routinely &quot;crank&quot; my system (for extended periods of time) and it has never shut down or damaged anything. &nbsp;I guess my &quot;acid test&quot; does not involve unrealistic and out-of-this-world situations. &nbsp;I'm not quite sure what such unrealistic spurts of extreme testing accomplishes???

For those who are having complaints, defects, or bugs I'd suggest swapping the unit out for another 2400 and doing a thorough system diagnosis, and maybe have a friend with a little HT knowledge accompany you. &nbsp;If this does not accomplish anything, then go with another brand. &nbsp;

Good luck.</font>